Busfreak Posted November 16, 2003 Report Posted November 16, 2003 Hi guys! Made a search in this forum but unfortunately didn't find what I was looking for... Is there a way to control the left and right spoilers SEPERATELY? I am aware of offsets 0BD4 and 0BD8 but writing to these offsets doesn't have the required effect. Any help would be highly appreciated! Thanks Busdriver (aka Speedbirdie) :wink:
Pete Dowson Posted November 16, 2003 Report Posted November 16, 2003 Is there a way to control the left and right spoilers SEPERATELY? I am aware of offsets 0BD4 and 0BD8 but writing to these offsets doesn't have the required effect. Not that I know of, no. The 0BD4 and 0BD8 read-outs are just that, read-outs. Do any real aircraft allow separate control? When would you use it? Regards, Pete
Busfreak Posted November 16, 2003 Author Report Posted November 16, 2003 Hi Pete! Thanks for your quick reply! I was trying to use the spoilers as a "support" for the ailerons for bank control. This is just like real aircraft do this ("spoilerons"). My plane's ailerons keep loosing their effectiveness at decreasing speeds (IAS) and I wanted to simulate spoilerons to compensate for this effect. But: when flying manually and giving roll inputs on the joystick I can see in the outside view that the spoilers DO move seperately (left roll -> right spoilers, right roll -> left spoilers). So it seems to be possible...somehow...but how? :? Hmmm, too bad that this isn't possible. :cry: Busfreak
Pete Dowson Posted November 16, 2003 Report Posted November 16, 2003 This is just like real aircraft do this ("spoilerons"). But they are connected to the aileron control, and would be provided for in those FS models simulating them. My plane's ailerons keep loosing their effectiveness at decreasing speeds (IAS) and I wanted to simulate spoilerons to compensate for this effect. Sounds like you want to make some adjustments to the aircraft modelling - AIRCRAFT.CFG parameters or possibly AIR file editing. But: when flying manually and giving roll inputs on the joystick I can see in the outside view that the spoilers DO move seperately (left roll -> right spoilers, right roll -> left spoilers). So it seems to be possible...somehow...but how? :? That would be programmed into the visual modelling for the relevant aircraft, but still count as part of the ileron control. there's no separate control that I know of. Regards, Pete
Busfreak Posted November 18, 2003 Author Report Posted November 18, 2003 Hi Pete! Ooops, I just noticed that the answer I posted on Sunday doesn't appear here... anyway I did some aircraft.cfg editing and the spoilers do move now according to elevator movement. The only remaining question is: is this spoilers movement just a "visual candy" or does it have a real aerodynamic effect on roll control? I somehow wasn't able to find this out... Thanks a lot anyway for your help!! Busfreak
Pete Dowson Posted November 18, 2003 Report Posted November 18, 2003 The only remaining question is: is this spoilers movement just a "visual candy" or does it have a real aerodynamic effect on roll control? I somehow wasn't able to find this out... I should think it is all part of the overall effect of the aileron controls, which will be programmed in terms of effectiveness and responsiveness in the AIRCRAFT.CFG too, or if not then certainly in the AIR file. Regards, Pete
ronzie Posted November 19, 2003 Report Posted November 19, 2003 Just to clarify: It is normal for heavy jets, etc, to have a relatively small aileron area on the outward portion of the wings due to all the necessary hardware as we approach the fuselage such as milti-section flaps, etc. Therefore, since at high speed most of the airflow is toward the outer wing and at slow speeds most of the airflow is at the inner wing area where the ailerons are not relatively effective, spoilers synced to aileron control are enabled at the slower airspeeds. It is not a question of the aircraft model effectiveness per se' of the ailerons themselves. How it is incorporated into the model with appropriate sync and enabling thresholds I do not know, nor even if it is possible.
Pete Dowson Posted November 19, 2003 Report Posted November 19, 2003 It is not a question of the aircraft model effectiveness per se' of the ailerons themselves. How it is incorporated into the model with appropriate sync and enabling thresholds I do not know, nor even if it is possible. This is a question for those who know about FS's aircraft modelling. But there are certainly lots of parameters in AIR files and configurable in AIRCRAFT.CFG files. By proposing that your concerns were taken care of through aileron effectiveness and responsiveness values I was encompassing what you are suggesting. It may be via tables or curves or equations. I just don't know. But there's only the one user control input -- the aileron control -- so however it is done it MUST all be derived from that to start with. That's all I was saying. Apart from sensitivity and response how many other variables would be applied to that input before deriving an output? You can only do so much with a single number. :) You should be able to find some aircraft modelling experts to ask. If not here, possibly on the AVSIM forums? Regards, Pete
Busfreak Posted November 19, 2003 Author Report Posted November 19, 2003 Thanks very much, guys, for your helpful responses! You are great! :D
ronzie Posted November 20, 2003 Report Posted November 20, 2003 You are of course right on, Pete. At one time we briefly discussed splitting up the FSUIPC ini file into a global section and an aircraft specific section. If this were done then for a specific model FSUIPC could be used for "tricks" such as enabling spoileron type control based on sampling the IAS and aileron deflection by using the increment spoiler control and for rules using conditional statements. It's just another neat feature idea (in my opinion, only) for a future release, where the modeler does not provide this enhancement. The basic question remains, if anyone knows, if there are seperate left and right spoiler control messages. If not, then it would definitely have to be a non-compliant feature of the model itself bypassing the gaming message engine, very difficult to say the least. Your original suggestion of increasing aileron effectiveness by scale definitions or even perhaps with increasing the area as defined in the .cfg or airfile is the practical solution, of course, but I can dream while not flying, can't I?
Pete Dowson Posted November 21, 2003 Report Posted November 21, 2003 The basic question remains, if anyone knows, if there are seperate left and right spoiler control messages. No, there are no separate controls. Regards, Pete
flypfc Posted November 21, 2003 Report Posted November 21, 2003 Busdriver in the aircraft.CFG you will want to edit these lines they change how the spoilers affect the aircraft with respect to the ailerons spoilerons_available=1 //Spoilerons Available? aileron_to_spoileron_gain=3 //Aileron to spoileron gain min_ailerons_for_spoilerons=10 //Degrees min_flaps_for_spoilerons=0 //Minimum flap handle position when spoilerons activate
Busfreak Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Posted November 21, 2003 Thanks very much for the hint, Flypfc! I am already playing around with these entries... :lol: I somehow wasn't able to find out whether the spoilers really have an aerodynamic effect on the roll performance or whether they are a "visual effect" only? Do you know this? Thanks again!! Busfreak
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