FS9 Crash With FSUIPC Installed

[John B. Williams]

Mr Peter Dowson,

"This is a registered version"

I'm having problems with your latess version of FSUIPC mod (e.g. v3.125).

I must first say that I've been using your mod forever, and never before

had a problem, but now FS9 is crashing with your mod installed, but works

fine once I remove it.

I did read the users manual and done all the things you said before sending

this problem report.

I did the following :

1 Found the FS9.cfg file and added the “ReportErrors=0” under [Main].

2 Moved the files from the MODULES folder, then copied FSUIPC.DLL to it

first and the other file afterwards

3 Started DrWatson

4 After FS9 crashed, found the DrWaton log file zip it up as a EXE file.

Here is some additional info about my system.

Karen's Computer Profiler v2.5.1

Operating System Name: Windows 2000

Operating System Platform: Windows NT/2000/XP

Operating System Major Version: 5

Operating System Minor Version: 0

Operating System Build Number: 2195

Service Pack Description: Service Pack 4

Service Pack Major Version: 4

Service Pack Minor Version: 0

Boot Type: Normal

Processor Architecture: Intel

CPU Manufacturer: AuthenticAMD

Processor Level: Pentium Pro/Pentium II

Processor Revision: Model 6 Stepping 2

Approximate CPU Clock Rate: 995 MHz

Floating Point Emulated: No

Floating Point Precision Errata: No

Compare & Exchange Double OP Available: Yes

MMX Instructions Available: Yes

XMMI Instructions Available: Yes

AMD 3D-Now Instructions Available: Yes

Number Of Processors: 1

Page Size: 4,096 bytes (4.00 KB)

Allocation Unit: 65,536 bytes (64.00 KB)

Minimum Application Address: 65,536

Maximum Application Address: 2,147,418,111

Slow Machine: No

Memory Load: 30%

Total Physical Memory: 1,073,201,152 bytes (1,023.48 MB)

In-Use Physical Memory: 322,183,168 bytes (307.26 MB)

Available Physical Memory: 751,017,984 bytes (716.23 MB)

Total Page File Size: 2,323,517,440 bytes (2.16 GB)

In-Use Page File Size: 263,053,312 bytes (250.87 MB)

Available Page File Size: 2,060,464,128 bytes (1.92 GB)

Total Virtual Memory: 2,147,352,576 bytes (2.00 GB)

In-Use Virtual Memory: 43,196,416 bytes (41.20 MB)

Available Virtual Memory: 2,104,156,160 bytes (1.96 GB)

[Pete Dowson]

I'm having problems with your latess version of FSUIPC mod (e.g. v3.125). I must first say that I've been using your mod forever, and never before had a problem, but now FS9 is crashing with your mod installed, but works fine once I remove it.

What was the last version you used before 3.125?

After FS9 crashed, found the DrWaton log file zip it up as a EXE file.

An EXE file? It should surely just be a ZIP. I would be most reluctant to run an EXE if I received one.

Where did you send it?

Can you tell me any more about when and how it is crashing? I have no details at all. The data you listed for your PC is all very good, but it tells me nothing about FSUIPC.

Regards,

Pete

[John B. Williams]

Mr. Peter Dowson,

I hope that I will be able answer the questions

you had in your response to my message.

The first DrWaton log file I send was an attachment

to the message I send, but I guess because it was

a "EXE" file the system may not have processed it.

This time I'm attaching it in "ZIP" file form.

The version I was using before v3.125 was v3.11.

unregistered.

I had not made any changes to v3.125 configuration,

I was using the default settings.

The crash would happen at anytime at different

airports or areas of the world or while flying at

any altitude.

John B. Williams

drwtsn32.zip

[Pete Dowson]

The first DrWaton log file I send was an attachment

to the message I send, but I guess because it was

a "EXE" file the system may not have processed it.

This time I'm attaching it in "ZIP" file form.

Okay. There are 29 crashes reported in that file, only the last few seem to be relevant.

The version I was using before v3.125 was v3.11.

unregistered.

I had not made any changes to v3.125 configuration,

I was using the default settings.

Ah, but using 3.11 unregistered, you would have been using zero of the "settings". The fact that you use 3.125 registered, compared to 3.11 unregistered is significant. Since with an unregistered FSUIPC none of the user options would have done anything, whilst in the rtegistered version they all operate (albeit in default settings), is the main point.

I'll look at the dumps you sent tomorrow, but none are actually in FSUIPC, nor at first glance or caused directly by FSUIPC. I'll know more tomorrow some time.

Meanwhile, please set "minimum weather defaults" in the first FSUIPC options page and let me know. It looks like a graphics problem and the attempts by FSUIPC to enhance the weather slightly may be exacerbating the problem.

What external FSUIPC applications are you using? I don't recognise any of the names listed in the DrWatson, and you have a HUGE list of aplication programs running:

*----> Task List <----*

0 Idle.exe

8 System.exe

228 smss.exe

252 csrss.exe

272 winlogon.exe

300 services.exe

312 lsass.exe

496 svchost.exe

528 spoolsv.exe

556 ccEvtMgr.exe

640 Ati2evxx.exe

668 svchost.exe

684 GEARSec.exe

716 navapsvc.exe

736 NPROTECT.exe

796 regsvc.exe

824 r_server.exe

904 MSTask.exe

932 stisvc.exe

1004 ntstart.exe

1028 trayman.exe

1048 PQV2iSvc.exe

1072 vfdrv32.exe

1084 WinMgmt.exe

1096 WinVNC.exe

424 svchost.exe

1280 Explorer.exe

1440 TotRecSched.exe

1396 LVCOMS.exe

1424 CTHELPER.exe

1452 ccApp.exe

840 WinPatrol.exe

1492 atiptaxx.exe

1504 realsched.exe

1512 SETI@home.exe

852 SECCOPY.exe

1524 TextAloudMP3.ex.exe

1532 SpellMagic.exe

1556 acrotray.exe

1548 appbar.exe

1568 Icondesk.exe

1576 fs20.exe

1592 KeyText.exe

1680 rnathchk.exe

1552 SYSTRA~1.exe

696 ntvdm.exe

1376 WISPTIS.exe

1728 FS9.exe

1852 drwtsn32.exe

Which of these is using FSUIPC? Can't you reduce the number of background processes a bit? FS9 is notoriously precarious in such overcrowded PCs! Try the freeware "EndItAll".

Thanks,

Pete

[Andre Sturm]

Hello,

I have the same problem.

Fs9 hangs after about 30 secs. (looks like a graphic problem) since i installed the latest version.

Where can i download an older version? I was so stupid to overwrite the previous version... :oops:

Regards,

Andre

:D

[Pete Dowson]

Fs9 hangs after about 30 secs. (looks like a graphic problem) since i installed the latest version.

There is nothing in FSUIPC which will do this. It sounds like a potential problem which subtle timing differences have avoided so far.

Without many more details I really have no chance to even start investigating.

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

The crash would happen at anytime at different

airports or areas of the world or while flying at

any altitude.

Okay, I've looked through the DrWatson file you sent.

It shows rather a sorry collection of crashes, dating back several months. There were 4 from FS2002, then these (in order):

1 in Explorer

1 in Paintshop Pro

1 in Photoshop Album

1 in "FSPS" ?

1 in "DAP" ?

1 in DivX Player 2.0

1 in ATICDWIZ

1 in NR2003

2 in Acrobat

2 in FS9 (in the Base code)

1 in a Setup program

1 in FS9, without FSUIPC 3.125 (on 12th Oct), in a Gauge by the look

Another 1 in PaintShop Pro

2 in NetGnd2 something

thenthe 7 or 8 in FS9 with FSUIPC 3.125, all identical, with an Acrobat crash mixed in for good measure.

With so many crashes in so many applications, aren't you a little worried about your system anyway? Or do you have explanations for all these?

With reference to the FS ones, I think you have some video driver problems, or AGP, or overheating. It is certainly video related. All the crashes are in FS's HG2D module (graphics, 2D stuff -- polygons and cockpits), all in exactly the same place, and not in any path where FSUIPC is involved.

Try changing the FS Options-Settings-Display-Hardware option "render to texture" -- set it off if it is on, on if off.

Try reducing some of the sliders to ease the loading on the video side.

I would suggest in any case trying to severely reduce the number of processes you have running. I know Windows is responsible for a lot of them, but 53 or so does seem rather excessive, especially considering you reported your processor as only a Pentium 2 running at 995 MHz. As it is this is severely under-powered for FS2004 I'm afraid. With so many processes I think you are asking for real trouble.

I suppose you could say that a registered version of FSUIPC running was the "straw that broke the camel's back". I've really tried to find some evidence that FSUIPC itself could be responsible for this, but it isn't. Sorry.

By all means try FSUIPC with "minimum weather defaults" selected in its first options page, but also investigate updated video drivers, changing AGP aperture settings or other BIOS things, and checking the air circulation around your video card.

Regards,

Pete

[Andre Sturm]

Hi,

Then do you have an explanation why this only started after installing the latest version?

I had no problems with the previous version...

Could you please tell me where i can download older versions?

Or could you mail me version 3.11.

This one worked fine for me.

Regards, Andre

:D

[Pete Dowson]

Hi,

Then do you have an explanation why this only started after installing the latest version? I had no problems with the previous version...

(This thread is getting confusing. I write an answer to one person after analysing the information supplied, and I get a complaint from someone else in response. Well...)

Remember, you yourself said "it looks like a graphics problem"? FSUIPC has nothing whatsoever to do with graphics. That's why I answered you in that way. But I also said, if you refer back:

"It sounds like a potential problem which subtle timing differences have avoided so far.

Without many more details I really have no chance to even start investigating."

Isn't that understandable? If you want me to try to ascertain why you are having problems I will need a lot more information than you just telling me FS crashes, I'm afraid. I could at least do with knowing what the details are from the crash report, and a DrWatson if possible. I'd also need to know your system details, what else you are running -- especially what you are doing in that first 30 seconds -- and so on.

Could you please tell me where i can download older versions?

Or could you mail me version 3.11.

Sorry, no. There will be a version 3.13 in due course, then a 3.14 etc etc etc. I cannot and will not go backwards. That is futile. If there is any problem in FSUIPC it must be resolved.

However, the only other crash reported is most certainly a video-related problem, after analysing the data provided. With yours I really have no idea as you've not yet told me anything useful. Sorry.

Regards,

Pete

[Andre Sturm]

Hello,

First of all, sorry for "barging" in (don't know if this is the right word) on this thread. :oops: I did not want to be unpolite, but wanted to inform you that there are more customers with similar problems.

And offcourse you are right that you can't help much without further information, therefor i tried all morning to create the required drwatson log-file of the crash..and was unsuccessful (now i feel even more stupid :oops: )

As mentioned in your documents, i:

-add the errorreports=0 line in fs9.cfg

-started drwatson

- started fs9

- after app. 30 seconds the screen freezes.

-the sound continues

-pressing a key does not do anything (including alt-tab), except pressing ctrl-alt-del.

- by pressing ctrl-alt-del i get the "windows security" window, when i press task manager, nothing happens (the simulator view is displayed all the time, with the windows security window in front of it).

- When i press shutdown (in the windows security window), windows reports that fs9 is not responding, i press end now and then nothing happens.

- The only way to continue is a hard reset (by pressing the reset button).

When i then restart and look for a .log file there is no new one created.

In your documents you mention:

2. Before running FS again, run DrWatson.EXE (in Win2000 or WinXP it is DrWtsn32.EXE and it is in the Windows\System32 folder). To do this, simply click the Windows Start button, then Run, type ‘DrWatson’ (for example) and hit return. It will run and place a little icon in the system tray, which you can ignore. (On Windows 2000 and Windows XP it might come up with a set of options first. It is the Log you want, not the Dump, so note where that is going to be placed, or choose a different suitable folder for it).

When starting drwtsn32.exe (winxp) i get the mentioned options screen, however when i then press ok, it does not place a little icon in the system tray and when looking in the taskmanager for active processes, it is not there either..

Can you tell me what i am doing wrong here? I'm sorry, but my experience with drwatson and debugging is very limited.

My computer system:

Operating System Name: Windows XP

Operating System Platform: Windows NT/2000/XP

Operating System Major Version: 5

Operating System Minor Version: 1

Operating System Build Number: 2600

Service Pack Description: Service Pack 1

Service Pack Major Version: 1

Service Pack Minor Version: 0

Windows Directory: C:\WINDOWS

Windows System Directory: C:\WINDOWS\System32

Shared Windows Directory: C:\WINDOWS

Security Present: No

Debug Version of Windows: No

Boot Type: Normal

Processor Architecture: Intel

CPU Manufacturer: GenuineIntel

Processor Level: Pentium III or higher (15)

Processor Revision: Model 2 Stepping 7

Approximate CPU Clock Rate: 2405 MHz

Number Of Processors: 1

Page Size: 4.096 bytes (4,00 KB)

Allocation Unit: 65.536 bytes (64,00 KB)

Minimum Application Address: 65.536

Maximum Application Address: 2.147.418.111

Slow Machine: No

Memory Load: 28%

Total Physical Memory: 1.073.201.152 bytes (1.023,48 MB)

In-Use Physical Memory: 309.276.672 bytes (294,95 MB)

Available Physical Memory: 763.924.480 bytes (728,54 MB)

Total Page File Size: 2.582.884.352 bytes (2,41 GB)

In-Use Page File Size: 205.799.424 bytes (196,27 MB)

Available Page File Size: 2.377.084.928 bytes (2,21 GB)

Total Virtual Memory: 2.147.352.576 bytes (2,00 GB)

In-Use Virtual Memory: 65.355.776 bytes (62,33 MB)

Available Virtual Memory: 2.081.996.800 bytes (1,94 GB)

Sorry that i am "nerving" you with this. I understand that you can't help me a lot without a drwatson log-file. But after trying for 3 hours (and restarting a zillion times each time fs9 crashed) i decided to write you again to see if you can help me get the needed information.

Regards,

Andre

[Pete Dowson]

I did not want to be unpolite, but wanted to inform you that there are more customers with similar problems.

I know there are lots of folks with problems with FS2004. But they are not necessarily specifically related to FSUIPC. You can find such reports from folks who don't even use any of my modules. It's just that I get the blame first from those that do.

i tried all morning to create the required drwatson log-file of the crash..and was unsuccessful (now i feel even more stupid :oops: )

Don't feel stupid. I am the same. :? I cannot get DrWatson reports from many crashes in FS2004 on Windows XP. Even when I do they are rarely at all related to anything FSUIPC is doing.

As mentioned in your documents, i:

-add the errorreports=0 line in fs9.cfg

Yes, but apart from it being "ReportErrors" not "errorreports", I'm not even sure it works properly in FS2004 as it has done in previous releases. I think that SafeDisk protection stuff gets in the way. :(

- after app. 30 seconds the screen freezes.

-the sound continues

DrWatson never captures anything on a system freeze in any case, it needs to actually crash to the desktop with an error message box. Sometimes, if the system really crashes hard, Windows CP tells you about it when it re-boots, sometimes with the module name (invariably a part of the video drivers or DirectX in my experience).

When starting drwtsn32.exe (winxp) i get the mentioned options screen, however when i then press ok, it does not place a little icon in the system tray and when looking in the taskmanager for active processes, it is not there either..

I know. I think WindowsXP has messed all that stuff up. I haven't figured it out either yet. From what I read about the "new" system, running DrWatson is merely a way of setting what you want dumped and where to put it. It seems WindowsXP thinks it is making these dumps in any case, but so far I've never found the ones I think ought to be there! :(

Perhaps the chap who did manage to make a DrWatson and send it to me can tell us how he did it, please, and where he found it? (However, I think he was using Windows 2000, where, indeed, I did use to be able to get dumps).

Sorry that i am "nerving" you with this. I understand that you can't help me a lot without a drwatson log-file. But after trying for 3 hours (and restarting a zillion times each time fs9 crashed) i decided to write you again to see if you can help me get the needed information.

If I can find out how to do it reliably on FS2004 in Windows XP, I will certainly tell you (and I'll update my documentation). But I don't think you are likely to ever get it with the sort of crash you are talking about.

Windows XP is heavily protected against exactly the sort of problem you are getting. Nothing at normal user application level is supposed to be able to crash the system like that, in such a way that you have to reset/re-boot. The only things that can do that are low level things -- drivers.

I think your best course of investigation is likely to be your video drivers, video BIOS settings, things like that. Try different versions, try reducing some settings. Use "DxDiag" (run it from Start-Run) and disable AGP there. If any of these things stop the crash, then you are near finding the cause.

Really FSUIPC is not involved with any low level stuff, and certainly not anything video related. Most of the time it is not doing much at all, certainly not until a program starts using it (what program do you have using it in the first 30 seconds?).

Whether it happens with one version and not another is not particularly relevant. All that is happening is some slight difference in timing, or arrangement of data in memory, makes some event somewhere more likely to clash with some other.

It is easy to blame FSUIPC and folks do it all the time, but it isn't the way to find the answer. A more intensive process of elimination is needed.

Regards,

Pete

[Andre Sturm]

Hello,

Thanks for your response.

I made a typo regarding the Reporterrors. I do have it correctly in the fs9.cfg (unfortunately, i was hoping this would have solved the problem..)

I will try around with disabling features such as AGP and updating all drivers, as you mentioned.

I have already tried to close as many programs running in the background using enditall, unfortunately without succes.

If i do have any succes and find out what caused my problems, i'll report them here.

Thank you for your help and understanding.

Regards,

Andre

[Pete Dowson]

If i do have any succes and find out what caused my problems, i'll report them here.

Okay, thanks.

A few more things, though. Can you say which versions of FSUIPC you have used and not got this problem, and which ones with which you have? Are they all user registered, or none? If user regiistered, do you set any options to other than their defaults?

What processor is your FS PC. please? I see it is 2.4GHz. Is that a P4?

And what is FSUIPC actually being used for in those first 30 seconds? Is there an external FSUIPC application waiting to use it? Are you running FS with internal FSUIPC users, like other add-in DLLs, or Gauges in your cockpit?

If you have FS loading up with other than a default cockpit, could you try making the initial flight a standard aircraft/cockpit, so it loads with it, and then switch over after it is all ready? In the past (FS2000, FS2002) starting FS up with a complex highly inter-active cockpit and aircraft was one of the main ways of crashing FS on or soon after loading. Some sort of thread memory interaction I suspect. I've not heard about this a lot on FS2004, but I doubt that such problems are eradicated.

Finally, I will try to think of things to try in FSUIPC. Currently it is highly optimised, using the latest MS C compiler, for P4's. The previous version (3.11) used the previous, less capable, compiler, and was just optimised for Pentium class processors only. I don't see this will make crashes in FSUIPC any more or less likely, but it is sure to change the timing -- for the better, I would hope. I always strive to achieve nil impact on FS performance.

Anyway, I could make a compiled version with the less competent optimisation and send you it to try too. I doubt if anything like this will solve the problem, just possibly avoid it. It would be better to solve it if possible, as otherwise it will just recur later after some other change.

By the way, it was because of the difficulty of getting decent diagnostic information from WinXP, especially with FS2004's SafeDisk protection in operation, that I added code to FSUIPC to trap any and all errors occurring in its own code which would otherwise crash FS. These traps have been in since version 3 was released, and they are still in place. If you look at the FSUIPC.LOG file (which is now always produced) and see any crashes reported there, I'd like to see them -- the data logged includes code locations and register details.

If you never see any such reports in its logs, but still get crashes, they aren't actually occurring inside FSUIPC's code.

Regards,

Pete

[Andre Sturm]

Hi,

The test version you send works!

I just installed it and let fs9 run for 10 min. (i don't have more time at the moment) and it seems to work fine now.

Just to answer your questions:

- I had no problems with version 3.11 and had one more version running before that without any problems (don't know the version anymore, sorry).

Both registered.

- I start up fs9 with the default cessna, because of the reason you already mentioned (to prevent fs from overloading at the beginning)

- At the moment i don't use fsuipc for anything other than fine calibrating my throttle, rudder and yoke.

- I have Widefs installed (and registered), but do not use it at the moment for any external programs.

(i just registered both because i had good use of them in the past)

my fsuipc.log looks like this:

********* FSUIPC, Version 3.126 by Pete Dowson *********

User Name="Andre Sturm"

User Addr="andre@sturm.cx"

FSUIPC Key is provided

WideFS Key is provided

Module base=61000000

ClassOptions: UIPCMAIN=FF7F, FS98MAIN=FF7F, FS2KMAIN=FF5E

WeatherOptions(Orig)=40003605[40003605]

InitDelay: 0 seconds

WeatherReadInterval=4

DebugStatus=255

3766 System time = 17:20:41

3766 \\ANDRE\D-Schijf\FS2004\

3781 System time = 17:20:41, FS2004 time = 12:00:00 (00:00Z)

18797 FLIGHTS\OTHER\FLTSIM.flt

18891 AIRCRAFT\c172\Cessna172SP.air

40719 C:\Documents and Settings\Dre\My Documents\Flight Simulator Files\Startup Hovercontrol.flt

40938 Clear All Weather requested: external weather discarded

44188 Advanced Weather Interface Enabled

362391 WeatherOptions set, now 40003605 (timer=0)

386281 System time = 17:27:03, FS2004 time = 12:29:56 (19:29Z)

386281 *** FSUIPC log file being closed

Memory managed: 2 Allocs, 18028 Freed

********* FSUIPC Log file closed ****

Regards,

Andre

[Andre Sturm]

Oh, i forgot to mention:

I have a Pentium 4, 2,4 ghz.

and only had problems with fsuipc 3.125.

Regards,

Andre

[Pete Dowson]

The test version you send works!

I just installed it and let fs9 run for 10 min. (i don't have more time at the moment) and it seems to work fine now.

Right. So, either it is still as I said, a slight timing difference, or there's something in the way the compiler optimises for P4. However, since the crash doesn't appear to be actually in FSUIPC, the former still sounds the more likely. One timing-related possibility is that some access made by FSUIPC into other parts of FS takes place at a slghtly different time and this has an effect of some thread synchronisation somewhere.

I'm still pretty sure it must be video or Direct3D related, but there are so many threads running in FS that tying it down is problematic.

Thanks for the answers. I'm none the wiser, really, of course, but I suggest you stay with 3.126 for now, and upgrade to the next version when it is available, and so on, and hope for the best. If we ever do get stuck we'll experiment again like now.

Regards,

Pete

[Andre Sturm]

Hi,

Anyway, Thank you for your fast response and making available this testversion to us, as it did solve my problems!

Keep up the good work, Fsuipc is a great utility.

Regards,

Andre