conflict with Real Sim Gear 500 autopilot

[jimbooo]

i am using fsuipc7 with MSFS2020 in order to get my Professional Flight Controls C2 console working properly.  I also have the PFC professional radio stack.  My installed FSUIPC7 works fine with all that equipment.   I also have a Garmin 650 and 750 and GTN 500 autopilot from Real Sim Gear.  The 650 and 750 work fine but the 500 Autopilot commands conflict with the FSUIPC commands.  If i run MSFS2020 without loading FSUIPC7 the autopilot works fine - but then I cant use the entire PFC console or radios !!!   so I need to have FSUIPC running but then I get the conflict with the Real Sim Gear GTN500 autopilot.   

Is it possible that i could simply edit OUT the FSUIPC autopilot commands ?  Would that likely eliminate the conflict - or would that create more problems ??

If so could you tell me where I would find the command list - is it in the .ini file or ????

any help would be appreciated

thank you

Jim

 

 

[John Dowson]

14 hours ago, jimbooo said:

but the 500 Autopilot commands conflict with the FSUIPC commands. 

What exactly do you mean by this? If you have not assigned anything to the GTN500 in FSUIPC7, then it should not do anything at all.
Maybe there is an id conflict (so it is picking up assignments for a different device)? Can you please attach your FSUIPC7.ini, FSUIPC7.log and FSUIPC7.JoyScan.csv files and I will take a look.

14 hours ago, jimbooo said:

Is it possible that i could simply edit OUT the FSUIPC autopilot commands ?

But there should be no commands for this device unless you have added them. Or is it also a PFC device controlled by the PFC driver?
Where is this device assigned?

John

[jimbooo]

now that i think about it there is certainly a PFC driver that controls all the PFC equipment.  i dont have the PFC autopilot module but likely the programming is still there and may be conflicting at some point.   However:

1. the same PFC driver is active in XPlane and the RealSimGear devices all work properly with no conflicts

2. when i removed the FSUIPC7 program and ran MSFS2020 without it running the RealSimGear autopilot ran perfectly

3. i have not "assigned" anything in FSIPC.  I simply install it and let 'er rip.   Looking in the commands in the FSUIPC program there are all the normal autopilot commands "HDG" NAV" "VS" etc.  Im assuming those are present to operate normal autopilots installed in most planes.  This may be the conflict ???

given the above I will provide you with the logs you requested.  I will likely got to my computer later today

 

thanks for your response

Jim

[jimbooo]

ps   the 
RealSimGear equipment is NOT a PFC device and is not controlled by the PFC driver - at least it is not evident in running XPlane  as there are no conflicts.

[John Dowson]

2 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

1. the same PFC driver is active in XPlane and the RealSimGear devices all work properly with no conflicts

What PFC driver are you using? I am pretty sure the PFC driver for FSUIPC is not compatible with XPlane/XUIPC...

4 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

3. i have not "assigned" anything in FSIPC.  I simply install it and let 'er rip.   Looking in the commands in the FSUIPC program there are all the normal autopilot commands "HDG" NAV" "VS" etc.  Im assuming those are present to operate normal autopilots installed in most planes.  This may be the conflict ???

The FSUIPC PFC HID driver has automatic assignments (i.e. you don't need to do anything) via macros, and for the COM driver you have to assign manually, so there are only assignments that you have created/added.

3 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

RealSimGear equipment is NOT a PFC device and is not controlled by the PFC driver - at least it is not evident in running XPlane  as there are no conflicts.

Ok, then the PFC driver is not relevant, and I cannot see how FSUIPC can be doing anything - I need to see your files.

Note also that I am finishing for the day soon, and I am away from tomorrow morning, back on Tuesday, so I will probably not be able to review your files until next week.

 

[jimbooo]

thoughts:

the PFC driver is active in order to get the PFC equipment recognized by XPlane.  it is supplied with the PFC equipment and was designed specifically for XPlane.   Everything in XPlane works fine as does the RealSimGear autopilot with no conflicts apparent.

MSFS 2020 does not work at all with the PFC equipment or their programmed driver - for use with MSFS2020 i use your FSUIPC7 program and it works fine as far as the PFC equipment is concerned.   

my problem is strictly with the RealSimGear autopilot when in the MSFS2020 program,

I will get you the files you requested and I understand you will be gone until Tuesday.    

Have a nice weekend...

[John Dowson]

13 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

MSFS 2020 does not work at all with the PFC equipment or their programmed driver - for use with MSFS2020 i use your FSUIPC7 program and it works fine as far as the PFC equipment is concerned.   

Ok, but I presume you are also using one of the FSUIPC PFC drivers with FSUIPC...

15 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

my problem is strictly with the RealSimGear autopilot when in the MSFS2020 program,

Yes, I understand this. But how is this device assigned? Does it have its own drivers and/or software? is this assigned in MSFS or elsewhere?
Does it function correctly in MSFS2020 when FSUIPC7 is not running?

17 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

I will get you the files you requested and I understand you will be gone until Tuesday.    

Ok. For the log file, can you please activate  logging for Events and Buttons & Keys, load an appropriate aircraft and then press a couple of buttons on the GTN 500 that you are having problems/conflicts with, and remember to exit FSUIPC7  before attaching your FSUIPC7.log and FSUIPC7.ini files. Also attach your FSUIPC7.JoyScan.csv file just in-case I need to see that as well.

23 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

Have a nice weekend...

Thanks - you as well,

John

[jimbooo]

scenario 1:

started MSFS normally and loaded the 172 and activated the flight.  once ready to fly i tried all the buttons on the 
RealSimGear autopilot.   none seemed to work but the AP on button would light for about 1 second and then go off.  i went into the virtual cockpit and tried the AP buttons there with the same result - nothing would activate except the AP on button and then turned off after 1 second.    stopped flight and went back to main screen.

scenario 2:

loaded the Beech King Air and activated the flight.  On the runway ready for takeoff the AP seemed to work mostly.   Took off and tried the HDG, NAV and ALT buttons and they seemed to work OK.  The IAS system would not take my preset altitudes but did respond to VS settings.  I was flying in the Caribbean and there were no ILS runways nearby so i tried an RNAV approach and it seemed to work OK but some of the indicator lights on the RealSimGear AP were not registering correctly but the plane did seem to be controlled by my settings.  

exited the MSFS program and copied the attached files.

very odd that the 172 would not work at all yet the KingAir mostly worked ?  I think I tried the Baron and it would not work at all - much like the 172.  Most of the MSFS included planes will not work at all with the RealSimGear AP - nor with the virtual cockpit versions of the AP.

FSUIPC7.JoyScan (1).csv FSUIPC7.JoyScan.csv FSUIPC7.log

[jimbooo]

i see from your last message that you wanted me to activate EVENTS and BUTTONS andKEYS.     i dont think i did this - i can re-do the 172 flight again tonite if my attached files dont show you the pertinint info    let me know

[jimbooo]

in response to another of your questions:

yes   if i do NOT run FSUIPC the RealSimGear AP works fine in MSFS 2020 - but of course then the entire PFC console and radios do not work.

thus my dilemma - the PFC equipment need to be operational - but then the RealSimGear AP doesnt work......

[John Dowson]

You are using a very old (15/11/2022) and unsupported version of FSUIPC, 7.3.15. Please update to the latest and only supported version, 7.4.8.

But your log shows that FSUIPC cannot even see these devices, so I cannot see how it can be doing anything...

1 hour ago, jimbooo said:

i see from your last message that you wanted me to activate EVENTS and BUTTONS andKEYS.     i dont think i did this - i can re-do the 172 flight again tonite if my attached files dont show you the pertinint info    let me know

Yes, as they show nothing - but maybe just for Events for the moment. And please turn off all other logging. Also try with the logging console window open (Log -> Open Console) - do you see any events logged when you press the buttons on the GTN500? Is there a difference in what you see in the 172 compared to the KingAir?

1 hour ago, jimbooo said:

very odd that the 172 would not work at all yet the KingAir mostly worked ? 

Not necessarily - depends what commands/controls the device is sending. Where is this controlled. i.e. how have you set up this device to send the correct controls for each button and for each aircraft? Do those planes actually have a GTN500 installed in the VC?

1 hour ago, jimbooo said:

Most of the MSFS included planes will not work at all with the RealSimGear AP

I am confused now, as you also say ' if i do NOT run FSUIPC the RealSimGear AP works fine in MSFS 2020'...
So which is it?

Please also attach your FSUIPC7.ini and PFChid64.log files, as well as your FSUIPC7.log file.

[jimbooo]

updated to 7.4.8 as instructed.

i did one flight as yesterday in the 172  - on the runway before departure the AP did the same as previously reported.  no buttons would light and the AP engage would light for about 1 second then turn off.      i decided to takeoff manually and levelled off.  now the AP button would light but no other buttons would light.  with the AP engaged i could keep straight level flight. apparently the ALT was operating but was not lit.   just as an experiment i centered the HDG bug and hit the HDG engage button.  it would not light but as i rotated the bug the plane followed ?  if i hit the HDG button again the plane would stop following the bug - again at no time was the light lit.   shut down MSFS and went to bed.....   i did not save any .ini or .doc docs.

 

i read your instructions today and set the log to "EVENTS"

172 on runway ready for t/o.   AP only lights/arms for 1 second then off.  other buttons show in log but do not light.

once airborne amazingly most of the lights work and AP arms. HDG lights and seems to work fine.  ALT hold lights and is working.  My VS and target altitude are set on my PFC module and it works somewhat but will not allow me to set my target altitude.  all the button presses and knob adjustments are logging in the FSUPC log for both the PFC and the Real

SimGear 500AP.  i kept the log open as you suggested.

very odd behaviour as i did the same thing yesterday and nothing worked.   this erratic behaviour is puzzling ?

i have attached the files you requested.  i am headed back to the sim to do more experimenting.   this hobby is sometimes frustrating....  than you for the help....

 

FSUIPC7.ini FSUIPC7.log PFChid64.log

[jimbooo]

another 172 flight just now - AP on then off on the ground same as yesterday.   most button pushes will log but not light or become active.  very different flight than yesterday....

once in the air the AP will arm and stay lit but the rest of the buttons worked differently than yesterday.  the HDG bug will log increment and decrement but NOT the pressing of the HDG button.  Once again the plane would follow the bug after the HDG button was pressed (no light shows).  then i pressed the HDG button again and the plane stopped following the bug.  the press of the HDG button again did NOT show in the log - only the increment/ decrement  logged.

for this flight i had the 650 and 750 working to test the NAV function and pushed the "Direct" button and entered a nearby airport. the route showed on the 750 and all events and buttons logged properly.  I pressed NAV and the light lit properly and the plane tracked the route properly.   tried to go back to HDG just to see how it acted and it did the same as before - no light and no logging of the HDG button but the plane would follow the bug until i pressed HDG again and then it stopped.   Apparently the HDG button IS engaging / disengaging the AP but the button presses do NOT log....

the VS speed is entered on the PFC radio panel and logs properly in FSUIPC log but does not operate as it should.  i can get the plane to climb or descend but the lights and button pushes are not working as they should.  i havent detailed or tested the VS procedure very exactly as Im trying to stay focused on the major malfunctions.

i decided to try an ILS landing since the NAV function was working.  the plane followed the appropriate nav route and switched the 750 GPS  to VNAV  at the appropriate time - however once the VNAV was in control nothing now worked to link the flight to the route.  HDG, NAV and APP would not arm - therefore no ILS route or glideslope.

landed manually and had a rum and coke........

 

ps     when i was first researching these malfunctions i called support at RealSimGear.  he logged into my computer remotely and looked around a bit.  he magically went to some screen and was able to disable FSUIPC with the idea of starting a flight without it running.   we did this and that was the basis of my report earlier that all the AP seemed to work and all lights operated properly.   since FSUIPC was not running i could not fly the plane to test in actual flight but all the lights on the AP lit as they should - at least on the ground.

[John Dowson]

13 hours ago, jimbooo said:

all the button presses and knob adjustments are logging in the FSUPC log for both the PFC and the Real

The button presses are not being logged - what is being logged is the events that these presses are generating in the FS. You can also log the button presses by activating logging for Buttons & Keys. However, this won't log anything as your devices are not being controlled by FSUIPC, so it will not see any button presses.

But FSUIPC is not seeing or doing anything at all with the RealSimGear GTN500, and I cannot see how it can be interfering at all....And I still don't know  how/where you have assigned the buttons on this device.

9 hours ago, jimbooo said:

he magically went to some screen and was able to disable FSUIPC with the idea of starting a flight without it running. 

Well, you could just exit FSUIPC7... have you tried exiting FSUIPC7 mid-flight and checking if that changes the way the 500 works? I suspect not...I think you need to go back to RealSimGear support for this issue, sorry.

The only issue I see in your log files is this:

Quote

      266    WARNING: Joystick ID 0 is duplicated in Registry
      281 Device acquired for use:
      281    Joystick ID = 0 (Registry okay)
      281    0=PFC Audio panel/optional Alt Pre-Select
      281    0.GUID={8B058250-BF13-11EB-800D-444553540000}
      281 Device acquired for use:
      281    Joystick ID = 0 (Registry okay)
      281    0=T-Pendular-Rudder
      281    0.GUID={8B058250-BF13-11EB-800D-444553540000}

i.e. two devices with the same id and guid. However, as you have no assignments to this/these devices in FSUIPC (at the moment), this is not causing any issues.

I cannot help with devices not assigned in FSUIPC, and I cannot see how FSUIPC can be interfering with devices assigned elsewhere that FSUIPC cannot even see.

John

 

 

[John Dowson]

Also, the Asobo 172 classic is fitted with a Garmin GNS 530 & a GNS 430, not a GTN500. Or is the aircraft model updated to include a GTN500 in the VC? If not, how can you expect this to be fully functional in an aircraft that does not support it?

[jimbooo]

the RealSimGear 650/750 and 500AP work in almost any plane even if they have different specific units in the virtual planes.    My only experience is in XPlane where these units work fine in all planes.   The PFC equipment is designed to work with XPlane and does so perfectly - and with no conflicts with the RealSimGear units.    No need for FSUIPC in this configuration. 

MSFS does not work at all with PFC equipment - thus the need for FSUIPC.  

Im not sure what you mean when you talk about "assigning" in FSUPC.?  i simply installed FSUIPC and without doing anything it controls my all my PFC equipment.  My only issue is some sort of conflict with the RealSimGear Autopilot.   the RealSimGear 650/750 work fine with no conflicts.

i will try logging "buttons and keys" to see if anything shows there as you suggested.

i have not tried to exit FSUIPC mid-flight as i would immediately crash without the PFC equipment running.   i can try that to see if there is anything i can see - how would i shut it down midflight ??

i will try some more experimenting and let you know what i find and re-contact RSG support again

thanks for the time so far, John.

[John Dowson]

2 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

i simply installed FSUIPC and without doing anything it controls my all my PFC equipment.

Yes, via the PFC driver. This has the assignments to standard FS controls built-in, via macros, which should work pretty much out of the box for aircraft in FSX and P3D, but things have changed a lot in MSFS2020. Many functions may work in some aircraft, but certainly not in all, and not in many add-on aircraft. You will have to provide your own macros to control some aircraft. See the documentation provided with the PFC driver for details.

5 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

i will try logging "buttons and keys" to see if anything shows there as you suggested.

You can try that but it won't show you anything as FSUIPC is not controlling your button assignments, as i said. You may see the PFC buttons but I am not sure - they probably go to the PFC log file.

7 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

i have not tried to exit FSUIPC mid-flight as i would immediately crash without the PFC equipment running. 

Why would you crash? If you are flying on AP, you aren't using the controls and so exiting FSUIPC should not be a problem, and then you can see if the RSG500 functions any differently without FSUIPC running.

8 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

i can try that to see if there is anything i can see - how would i shut it down midflight ??

Open the FSUIPC main window (Alt+F), then File->Exit. Do that and then try your 500 to see if it works, then you can restart FSUIPC7 and try again, and see if there is a difference. As I said, I expect not as FSUIPC cannot see this device so I cannot see how it can be interfering.

John

 

 

[jimbooo]

thanks for the suggestions - i will print them out and try all of them and report results.

Jim

[jimbooo]

as you suggested I did the exit from FSUIPC during a flight and th AP behaved exactly as you guessed - 500 did not work at all.

one question before i goto RSG guys again - in the FSUIPC folder is the interface for my PFC equipment.  is this a program you wrote or did that come from PFC???

anything in there that i should explore ???

im thinking the PFC guys may be relevant to my problem.     they are not too responsive to any MSFS dilemmas - they mostly just say they only care about XPlane.

i get that attitude but the damn graphics are so much better in MSFS than XPlane that i still want to make this work if possible.   

any hints for my quest ???

 

thanks again for spending the time here

Jim

[John Dowson]

6 hours ago, jimbooo said:

is this a program you wrote or did that come from PFC???

The FSUIPC PFC device drivers were written by Pete Dowson, my father. I support these to the best of my ability, but as I don't have any PFC devices my knowledge on these is not much more than what is provided in the documentation and available in existing support requests. These drivers have been stable for many years and are closed for further development,

6 hours ago, jimbooo said:

anything in there that i should explore ???

No, not for your issue with the RSG500.

6 hours ago, jimbooo said:

im thinking the PFC guys may be relevant to my problem. 

It is not, It only runs when FSUIPC is running (it is an embedded dll) and will have no affect on the RSG500.

6 hours ago, jimbooo said:

any hints for my quest ???

Not really - you need support from RSG for this device.

John

[jimbooo]

ok   ill go back there and see what we can figure out.  The PFC equipment is sooooo nice and well built AND is perfect with XPLane so I would like to make it work with MSFS.

your program does that very nicely - except for the RSG integration.
I will stay on the quest

thanks for your help along the way

Jim

[John Dowson]

Just now, jimbooo said:

your program does that very nicely - except for the RSG integration.

But as I keep telling you, FSUIPC and the PFC driver have nothing to do with your RSG equipment, and I cannot help with this as these devices are not supported by FSUIPC.

2 minutes ago, jimbooo said:

thanks for your help along the way

No problem.

John