Trim in MSFS2020 gone crazy in 7.5.2/7.5.3?

[Luis Hernández]

Hello everyone. Since some weeks ago, I've been seeing this issue with the elevator trim, either using Numpad 1/7 or the buttons I set in MSFS or FSUIPC as elevator trim up/down:

 

As you may see, I have AI autotrim off. This video was shot inside the A2A Comanche, but the issue also happens in several other GA aircraft (JF Turbo Arrow, Carenado Mooney and 182RG, default 172, DHC2 and Pipistrel). In all cases, my trim buttons end up useless.

I have basically two big controller profiles: one for airliners (in which two of my 3 throttle quadrant levers are set for spoilers and flaps) and another one for GA (where I use these levers for prop pitch and mixture instead). This only happens when using the GA aircraft profile. With airliners (A300/A310/747/787/Maddog), somehow it doesn't happen.

If I downgrade FSUIPC to 7.5.1, the trim behavior comes back to normal. But if I upgrade to 7.5.2 or 7.5.3, I start getting this problem again. If I use offsets, I also get a somehow normal behavior, unless the aircraft does not like offsets (as in the PMDG 777 or Asobo 787). Is it there a way to fix this problem?

For reference, these are the assignments for each profile:

[JoyNames]
0= VKBsim Gladiator NXT L
0.GUID={E63F1200-043B-11F0-8004-444553540000}
A=VKBSim NXT THQ
A.GUID={B046B480-AC8E-11EC-8001-444553540000}
B=VKB-Sim Gladiator NXT L
B.GUID={14F9D130-FAD0-11EB-8001-444553540000}
C=VKBsim Gladiator NXT L
C.GUID={E63F1200-043B-11F0-8004-444553540000}
D=VKBSim NXT THQ
D.GUID={E63F1200-043B-11F0-8008-444553540000}
1= VKBSim NXT THQ
1.GUID={E63F1200-043B-11F0-8008-444553540000}

[Axes]
PollInterval=10
RangeRepeatRate=10
0=CX,256,D,1,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: Aileron }-
1=CY,256,D,2,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: Elevator }-
2=CZ,256,D,36,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: SteeringTiller }-
3=CR,256,D,3,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: Rudder }-
4=DX,256,D,22,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: Spoilers }-
5=DZ,256,D,23,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: Flaps }-

[Buttons]
PollInterval=25
ButtonRepeat=20,0
1=PD,2,C65751,0 	-{LANDING_LIGHTS_TOGGLE}-
2=PD,3,C66240,0 	-{TOGGLE_TAXI_LIGHTS}-
3=PD,6,C65560,0 	-{STROBES_TOGGLE}-
4=PD,7,C66239,0 	-{TOGGLE_BEACON_LIGHTS}-
5=RD,5,C66634,0 	-{THROTTLE_DECR_SMALL}-
6=PD,0,K82,9 	-{Key press: lshift+R}-
7=PD,1,K71,11 	-{Key press: lctl+lshift+G}-
8=PC,2,K90,8 	-{Key press: Z}-
11=PC,6,C65758,0 	-{FLAPS_INCR}-
12=PC,8,C65759,0 	-{FLAPS_DECR}-
13=RC,7,Cx32000BC0,x3FFF0040 	-{offset sword increment, offset 0BC0 (Incr=64, Limit=16383)}-
14=PC,24,Cx42000BC0,xC0010060 	-{offset sword decrement, offset 0BC0 (Decr=96, Limit=-16383)}-
15=PC,25,Cx32000BC0,x3FFF0060 	-{offset sword increment, offset 0BC0 (Incr=96, Limit=16383)}-
16=RC,5,Cx42000BC0,xC0010040 	-{offset sword decrement, offset 0BC0 (Decr=64, Limit=-16383)}-
17=RC,0,K190,8 	-{Key press: .>key}-
18=RD,4,K190,8 	-{Key press: .>key}-
19=RC,1,C65588,0 	-{BRAKES}-
20=PC,20,C65752,0 	-{PARKING_BRAKES}-

[Axes.Propellers]
RangeRepeatRate=10
0=CX,256,D,1,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: Aileron }-
1=CY,256,D,2,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: Elevator }-
2=CZ,256,D,29,30,0,0	-{ DIRECT: CowlFlaps1, CowlFlaps2 }-
3=CR,256,D,3,36,0,0	-{ DIRECT: Rudder, SteeringTiller }-
4=DX,256,D,5,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: PropPitch }-
5=DY,256,D,4,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: Throttle }-
6=DZ,256,D,6,0,0,0	-{ DIRECT: Mixture }-

[Buttons.Propellers]
0=PC,22,C66279,0 	-{RUDDER_TRIM_RIGHT}-
1=PC,23,C66278,0 	-{RUDDER_TRIM_LEFT}-
2=PC,27,C67272,0 	-{RUDDER_TRIM_RESET}-

 

[Luis Hernández]

I'm attaching FSUIPC7.log

FSUIPC7 log.zip

[John Dowson]

Your elevator trim assignments are the same for all aircraft:

Quote

13=RC,7,Cx32000BC0,x3FFF0040 	-{offset sword increment, offset 0BC0 (Incr=64, Limit=16383)}-
14=PC,24,Cx42000BC0,xC0010060 	-{offset sword decrement, offset 0BC0 (Decr=96, Limit=-16383)}-
15=PC,25,Cx32000BC0,x3FFF0060 	-{offset sword increment, offset 0BC0 (Incr=96, Limit=16383)}-
16=RC,5,Cx42000BC0,xC0010040 	-{offset sword decrement, offset 0BC0 (Decr=64, Limit=-16383)}-

And I can't see how this can be related to the FSUIPC version, as you say:

11 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

I've been seeing this issue with the elevator trim, either using Numpad 1/7 or the buttons I set in MSFS or FSUIPC as elevator trim up/down:

i.e. you see the same behavior when assigned in MSFS, no?

Can you check that you do not have the trim buttons assigned in MSFS as well as in FSUIPC - they should be assigned in only one place.

Can you set logging for Buttons & Keys and Events, and show me / attach your FSUIPC7.log file showing this issue, as well as attaching your full FSUIPC7.ini file and I will take a look.

I will check the elevator trim here in the default 172 and in the JF Turbo Arrow (I don't have the Comanche).

John

[John Dowson]

1 hour ago, John Dowson said:

I will check the elevator trim here in the default 172 and in the JF Turbo Arrow (I don't have the Comanche).

I've checked this here now and offset 0x0BC0 seems to work fine to control the elevator trim in both the C172 and JF Turbo Arrow III,
I found your fast settings too low though, so changed the fast delta from 96 to 128 and also added fast assignments to the button release as well as the press.
At one point I did noticed the trim starting to behave abnormally (wouldn't go below 0), but this rectified itself and I haven't been able to reproduce this since.

So, please show me your ini & log files with the appropriate logging (mentioned above) activated. Also please add logging for offset 0BC0 (as S16). You an also use the version attached below which has some additional (temporary) logging added around offset 0BC) changes.

John

FSUIPC7.exe

P.S. Once change from 7.5.1 to 7.5.2 that could cause this issue for you is the following:

Quote

  - Allow the ELEVATOR_TRIM_SET event to be calibrated

i.e. the ELEVATOR_TRIM_SET axes is now calibrated from 7.5.2 onwards, So, check your elevator trim calibration (on page 6 of the calibration pages) and remove/reset if you have this calibrated.

[Luis Hernández]

Thanks for your reply, John. Let me try this evening, as soon as I get back from work, I'll be generating the new logs. In the meantime:

2 hours ago, John Dowson said:

Your elevator trim assignments are the same for all aircraft:

True. I keep 3 different sets of trim controls for my VKB Gladiator NXT: one is a thumb switch (buttons C5 and C7); another one is an encoder wheel at the base (that appears to FSUIPC as buttons C24 and C25, with no repeat set) and the other one is simply the Numpad 1/7 keys assigned directly in MSFS. For some planes (for which I didn't post the profile), I replace these assignments

13=RC,7,Cx32000BC0,x3FFF0040 	-{offset sword increment, offset 0BC0 (Incr=64, Limit=16383)}-
16=RC,5,Cx42000BC0,xC0010040 	-{offset sword decrement, offset 0BC0 (Decr=64, Limit=-16383)}-

in FSUIPC into either Elevator Trim Up/Down controls, or Numpad 1/7 key presses. I remember in FSX days it was a good practice to set the keys in sim and then in FSUIPC assign the buttons to keypresses, but I don't know if that has changed for 2020/2024. As requested, I'll send you the full ini this evening.

1 hour ago, John Dowson said:

i.e. the ELEVATOR_TRIM_SET axes is now calibrated from 7.5.2 onwards, So, check your elevator trim calibration (on page 6 of the calibration pages) and remove/reset if you have this calibrated.

I saw the changelog, and that's how I found out downgrading to 7.5.1 worked for me, but I never had calibrated any trims. I'll check tonight after generating the logs.

[John Dowson]

31 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

I remember in FSX days it was a good practice to set the keys in sim and then in FSUIPC assign the buttons to keypresses, but I don't know if that has changed for 2020/2024. As requested, I'll send you the full ini this evening.

This is generally not necessary, also in FSX, but can depend on the aircraft. For aircraft that use an axes/trim wheel, it is always better to assign to offset 0x0BC0 as this gives better control over the increments/decrements. For aircraft that use up/down for trim (as opposed to a wheel) or a switch with discrete positions, then bettor to assign to the inc/dec controls/events. There is no need to assign to the (default) key presses for this, unless the events aren't working via external applications (which can happen for some events/aircraft). For some aircraft in MSFS2020/2024, the standard controls don't work (neither the axes or inc/dec controls) and you need to use lvars/hvars/bvars/Input Events or calc code/presets, e.g. for the Cows DA42 you would need to use the lvar L:INPUT_TRIM_AXIS, or the MF preset 'Elevator Trim DN' (which uses that lvar).

John

[Luis Hernández]

Ok, I generated a new log. Unfortunately, somehow my ini got wiped last night, and the latest backup I had was from February/2024. I'm recovering from a mix between that backup and last night's post. I'm attaching a new log and the ini file I could recover. Unfortunately, the trim issue still persists.

UPDATE: looks like you had already found the culprit:

13 hours ago, John Dowson said:

So, check your elevator trim calibration (on page 6 of the calibration pages) and remove/reset if you have this calibrated.

I checked it and there was a calibration set there. I don't remember having done so, and less if the old ini I had was from more than a year ago (and way before v7.5.2). Anyway, I reset this calibration (so that nothing appeared), and looks like it's working. Just in case, I'm attaching a new ini and log, post-calibration reset.

FSUIPC7 - log and ini.zip FSUIPC7 - log and ini after reset.zip

[John Dowson]

7 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

I checked it and there was a calibration set there. I don't remember having done so, and less if the old ini I had was from more than a year ago (and way before v7.5.2). Anyway, I reset this calibration (so that nothing appeared), and looks like it's working. Just in case, I'm attaching a new ini and log, post-calibration reset.

Ok, I thought that would be the issue - no need to look at your files.

7 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

Unfortunately, somehow my ini got wiped last night, and the latest backup I had was from February/2024. I'm recovering from a mix between that backup and last night's post.

Ooh - sounds like a bit of a pain. How did that happen? Did you check your Recycle Bin?

John