PFC Jet Yoke A/P Disengage Command

[MichaelMcE]

Hello Pete,

I've acquired the Level D 767 package and unfortunately, the autopilot disengage button on my PFC Jet Yoke is having no effect on the autopilot CMD state. When depressed, there is an audible alarm that sounds, but the Level D 767 autopilot remains in whatever state it was in before the button was depressed.

With PIC767, depressing the autopilot disengage would toggle the autopilot CMD state on/off. I suspect something has changed between the implementation of PIC767 and Level D 767 in this regard.

My question is this: the PFC.dll user interface prevents the user from changing the key command sent when the autopilot disengage button is pressed. Would you please tell me what command is being sent when that button is pressed? This will allow me to follow-up with the folks at Level D.

Also - is this something that you could unlock - allowing the user the option to specify the key command to be sent when the autopilot disengage button on the jet yoke is depressed?

Thanks.

-michael

[Frank.O]

Hi Michael,

I think you can assign a key press or an FS control to that button using the FSUIPC button page. What you program there will override the settings in PFC.dll. I have programmed all the GPS buttons on the Digital Avionics to operate the FS internal GPS.

HTH

Frank

[Pete Dowson]

With PIC767, depressing the autopilot disengage would toggle the autopilot CMD state on/off. I suspect something has changed between the implementation of PIC767 and Level D 767 in this regard.

Are the two developments related? I thought this "Level D" 767 was a new product. Are you saying it is just an FS2004 update an the old FS2000/FS2002 767PIC?

My question is this: the PFC.dll user interface prevents the user from changing the key command sent when the autopilot disengage button is pressed. Would you please tell me what command is being sent when that button is pressed?

It depends what it thinks is running. With Project Magenta it does one thing, with the (original) 767PIC it does another, with default FS another still. For the old 767PIC it sends the keypresses listed as PIC_AP_MASTER and PIC_AP_LEFT (ids 1000, 1001). Currently PFC.DLL recognises the 767PIC by modules "APS", "B767W" and the gauge "B767WAFDS.GAU". I don't know if this new one looks anything like the old one.

Also - is this something that you could unlock - allowing the user the option to specify the key command to be sent when the autopilot disengage button on the jet yoke is depressed?

You can program any of the PFC buttons, knobs and switches in FSUIPC. If you do so it overrides the PFC.DLL default action.

Note that the A/P disconnect button on the jetliner yoke is indistinguishable from the A/P Engage button on the PFC avionics. So it connects as well as disconnects.

Regards,

Pete

[MichaelMcE]

Hi Michael,

I think you can assign a key press or an FS control to that button using the FSUIPC button page. What you program there will override the settings in PFC.dll. I have programmed all the GPS buttons on the Digital Avionics to operate the FS internal GPS.

HTH

Frank

Oops my apologies. I had originally stated that I tried your suggestion and it did not work. What I actually tried was assigning the PFC button directly to a Level D custom control - and that did not work.

I will try your suggestion later tonight - Pete has suggested that same approach.

Thanks.

[MichaelMcE]

Are the two developments related? I thought this "Level D" 767 was a new product. Are you saying it is just an FS2004 update an the old FS2000/FS2002 767PIC?

Level D 767 is a new product. As to the relationship to the 767PIC, the development team is the same (plus a few additions). However, I do not know how much - if any - of the old code base has been reused. I doubt that they developed it entirely from scratch.

My question is this: the PFC.dll user interface prevents the user from changing the key command sent when the autopilot disengage button is pressed. Would you please tell me what command is being sent when that button is pressed?

It depends what it thinks is running. With Project Magenta it does one thing, with the (original) 767PIC it does another, with default FS another still. For the old 767PIC it sends the keypresses listed as PIC_AP_MASTER and PIC_AP_LEFT (ids 1000, 1001). Currently PFC.DLL recognises the 767PIC by modules "APS", "B767W" and the gauge "B767WAFDS.GAU". I don't know if this new one looks anything like the old one.

Ok, it is starting to make sense. Level D definitely does not have or use APS (there were explicit instructions to make sure that it was removed from any prior installation of 767PIC). I would suspect that PFC.dll is therefore sending keypresses not recognized by Level D.

You can program any of the PFC buttons, knobs and switches in FSUIPC. If you do so it overrides the PFC.DLL default action.

Ok! Level D does have keypresses that equate to PIC_AP_MASTER and PIC_AP_Left. I'll try that tonight and see how it goes.

Pete, if there is the possibility of modifying PFC.dll for inherent support of Level D I would be glad to research the "signature" components that would allow PFC.dll to recognize the existence of Level D.

Thanks.

-michael

[Pete Dowson]

if there is the possibility of modifying PFC.dll for inherent support of Level D I would be glad to research the "signature" components that would allow PFC.dll to recognize the existence of Level D.

I fear it will be much more complex than that. The current stuff in PFC.DLL for 767PIC is a real mish mash, trying to cope with the original (pre 1.3) version and the later update simultaneously.

If the Level D team is more or less the same as the 767PIC team then really I don't want anything to do with them. When I was trying to develop the facilities I did do, for their very first version of 767PIC, I was trying to interact with them on behalf of PFC to get adequate controls included. They were very rude to me and basically told me to get *******. I really want nothing whatsoever to do with them, they are not the sort of people I can deal with I'm afraid.

Later (in their version 1.3 update) they did produce almost the interface I had suggested to them, and published it privately, I think, to Aerosoft (Oz) for their MCP driver. I got no help or information and had a lot of difficult work to do just to provide the rather crude support that exists in PFC.DLL today.

Maybe that was all about money. I don't know. Either way, I really would rather not go through any of that again. Sorry.

Even if I was eager to do something, it would not be possible till late April at the earliest.

Regards,

Pete

[MichaelMcE]

if there is the possibility of modifying PFC.dll for inherent support of Level D I would be glad to research the "signature" components that would allow PFC.dll to recognize the existence of Level D.

I fear it will be much more complex than that. The current stuff in PFC.DLL for 767PIC is a real mish mash, trying to cope with the original (pre 1.3) version and the later update simultaneously.

If the Level D team is more or less the same as the 767PIC team then really I don't want anything to do with them.

Pete

Yes, I was aware of some of the past issues and it really is an unfortunate situation. However, lines must be drawn where they must be drawn and I do respect and understand your position.

Let's hope that the workaround you offered (reprogramming keys via FSUIPC) will suffice.

Thanks.

-michael

[MichaelMcE]

Hi Michael,

I think you can assign a key press or an FS control to that button using the FSUIPC button page. What you program there will override the settings in PFC.dll. I have programmed all the GPS buttons on the Digital Avionics to operate the FS internal GPS.

HTH

Frank

Pete/Frank -

Thanks - it works! I am able to toggle the LVLD A/P via the disengage button on the PFC Yoke.

Thanks again.

-michael

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks - it works! I am able to toggle the LVLD A/P via the disengage button on the PFC Yoke.

Good. One down one to go.

I've added new controls in FSUIPC 3.47 (hopefully released tomorrow) for "Throttles off", "Throttles on" and "Throttles toggle", so at the worst you can manually disconnect the throttles when engaging A/T modes -- or even program them on the same switch if you are able to use a switch for the 767. If we find a method for the PFC.DLL to detect the A/T modes then I can use the same controls automatically.

Regards,

Pete