FS2004, FSUIPC 3.48 and Reverse Thrust

[6maynqw]

Hi

I am getting problems with this version of FSUIPC when trying to use my CH Flight Yoke USB with the Mixture axis set to the Reverser axis. When configuring FSUIPC, on page 1 I set the Throttle max and min values as per standard. Then on page 7, I set the Reverser max and min values as changed by my mixture axis. This works perfectly for twin engine aircraft, however if used with four engine aircraft, the engines 1 and 2 reverse normally, and return to idle as expected, however engines 3 and 4 reverse to a point, then when the lever is back to idle, go the opposite way, and add more reverse. So in effect when the reverse axis is brought back to idle, I end up with Eng 1 and 2 at idle, and Eng 3 and 4 at full reverse.

I have tried deleting the FSUIPC.ini file, and then deleing and replacing all FSUIPC files, and also downgraded to 3.411, but even with an older version, nothing happens at all.

Can anyone fix this problem to have all 4 engines working together on the reverse lever? (BTW the throttle axis works perfectly)

Thanks in advance

[Pete Dowson]

I am getting problems with this version of FSUIPC when trying to use my CH Flight Yoke USB with the Mixture axis set to the Reverser axis. When configuring FSUIPC, on page 1 I set the Throttle max and min values as per standard. Then on page 7, I set the Reverser max and min values as changed by my mixture axis. This works perfectly for twin engine aircraft, however if used with four engine aircraft, the engines 1 and 2 reverse normally, and return to idle as expected, however engines 3 and 4 reverse to a point, then when the lever is back to idle, go the opposite way, and add more reverse. So in effect when the reverse axis is brought back to idle, I end up with Eng 1 and 2 at idle, and Eng 3 and 4 at full reverse.

I cannot reproduce this at all the the default FS 747. In fact I don't see how it can occur, as when using a single throttle for all engines there' only one "reverse" operation really being performed, not 2 or 4.

Check your FS axis assignments, make sure you don't have anything else set to adjust throttles.

Let's take your experiments one at at time:

I have tried deleting the FSUIPC.ini file

But that would make FSUIPC revert to default actions, which would mena no throttle calibration and no reverse on your mixture axis.

and then deleing and replacing all FSUIPC files

The only "FSUIPC" file of consequence is the DLL itself. The LOG file is produced each time, as is a default INI file. If you delete the only other file, the KEY file, you will need to re-register, but that is all.

and also downgraded to 3.411, but even with an older version, nothing happens at all.

Once you have deleted the INI file you have destroyed your settings, which explains why nothing happens. You will have to set the reverser up again.

Can anyone fix this problem to have all 4 engines working together on the reverse lever? (BTW the throttle axis works perfectly)

When using a single throttle axis, they always do work together on the standard FS aircraft -- unless you use E+ 1 2 3 4 to select specific engines -- this is a standard FS facility. I don't know about third party aircraft though.

Regards,

Pete

[6maynqw]

Hi thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I still cannot get it to work.

So -

I have reinstalled Windows XP+SP2

I then installed Drivers etc and calibrated joysticks

Then FS2004 and 9.1 patch

Then I installed FSUIPC 3.48

Next I assigned keys/axis to the specifics

Now, I have two joysticks - a normal one with throttle and buttons, and one CH Flight Yoke USB.

This is the setup -

Normal JStick:

Left/Right Axis assigned to Rudder in FS

Throttle Axis assigned to Throttle for All Engines in FS

Other buttons etc as default

CH Yoke:

Left/Right Axis assigned to Ailerons in FS

Push in/Pull out Axis assigned to Elevator in FS

Throttle Axis Not Assigned, though have tried to put it to Spoiler Axis but it doesn't seem to work

Propeller Axis as default in FS

Mixture Axis assigned to Mixture for all engines in FS, and assigned to Reverse on page 7 of FSUIPC.

All buttons etc as default.

The CH Manager software has not been installed.

All axis on both JSticks have been processed in FSUIPC.

This setup has only worked once a while ago, and i have not been able to get it back working again. Once FS2004 is started, I load up a 747 flight, and pull back on the reversers. The same thing happens whereby the throttles move back as expected, then 3+4 don't move as far back as they should, and when reverse thrust is cancelled, 1+2 throttles turn idle, and 3+4 open fully.

I have no idea what is happening, and as I have said, I did manage to get it working only once before, but I have a feeling it wasn't with 3.48, rather a previous version, maybe the next version down, although I can't find anywhere to download it.

I hope that explaination helps things a little. If there is anything else I can try, please let me know.

Thanks in advance

[Pete Dowson]

CH Yoke:

Throttle Axis Not Assigned, though have tried to put it to Spoiler Axis but it doesn't seem to work

There's something strange there already. You assign it to the spoiler in FS assignments, and it doesn''t work even with FS (nothing to do with FSUIPC)?

All axis on both JSticks have been processed in FSUIPC.

I think, until you resolve your spoiler axis problem you shouldn't use FSUIPC on any axis at all. You need to resolve that first.

Once FS2004 is started, I load up a 747 flight, and pull back on the reversers. The same thing happens whereby the throttles move back as expected, then 3+4 don't move as far back as they should, and when reverse thrust is cancelled, 1+2 throttles turn idle, and 3+4 open fully.

The part about "not moving back as far" is weird because all 4 throttles are treated identically.

The other part sounds almost as if you have Throttles 3 and 4 reversed somehow, though using only a single throttle axis it shouldn't be possible. Anyway, check all the FS settings, make sure none of the throttles are set reversed, and also go through every page in FSUIPC's joysticks options, make sure none have "REV" checked.

Can you show me the complete jostick section from your FSUIPC.INI file please?

I did manage to get it working only once before, but I have a feeling it wasn't with 3.48, rather a previous version

Well, there's been no changes in this area for a long time, and as I say it is pretty basic when you only have one throttle axis -- all 4 throttles are commoned up, all have exactly the same values submitted to them.

You could switch on Axis logging in the FSUIPC Logging page and do a short test as you described, just to illustrate the problem for me. Keep it short -- the log will get very large otherwise.

Regards,

Pete

[6maynqw]

To answer to all your questions, I've reset the default FS2004 values for axis and buttons, and have moved FSUIPC.dll out of the modules folder and deleted FSUIPC.ini. I have done all tests in the Default 747.

The Spoiler Axis now has limited functionality without FSUIPC. However, there seems to be two different ways it operates:

1) The spoilers are consistent with the lever up until the lever goes past Armed on the throttle quadrant in FS, then springs down to Up. Now no matter where the lever is, the spoilers stay in the Up position.

2) At other times the spoilers can be consistent with the lever until about halfway, then they spring to Up again. However, when the lever is moved now, the showing of it in FS throttle quadrant shows the lever being moved, but it springs back to Up after a second or less. This suggests to me that there is something else having control of this axis. So I've also deleted every axis, same result. I have used each of the two Joysticks on their own, same result.

However, I then tried the same lever for the flaps axis, and that works perfectly. It doesn't snap back to another location.

I have been over the FS2004 settings, and none of the axis are set to reverse, just as in FSUIPC (when it was put back) were any of the axes reversed with "Rev".

I have also tried installing the CH Controller Software (1.22), but this has not helped matters.

For the reverse throttle issue, it appears that while all throttles are assigned to one lever, 1+2 are consistent with the position of the lever, 3+4 always snap to full reverse, and get struck there, similar to the spoilers.

Here is the Joystick section of FSUIPC:

[JoystickCalibration]

ExclThrottleSet=No

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

FlapsSetControl=0

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=0

RudderTrimControl=0

CowlFlaps1Control=0

CowlFlaps2Control=0

CowlFlaps3Control=0

CowlFlaps4Control=0

SlopeAileron=0

SlopeElevator=0

SlopeRudder=0

Throttle=-16193,16192

PropPitch=-7040,7040

Reverser=-16193,16192

And here is the axis log:

Running inside FS2004 (FS9.1 CONTROLS.DLL, FS9.1 WEATHER.DLL)

[Continuation log requested by user]

Module base=61000000

ClassOptions: UIPCMAIN=FF7F, FS98MAIN=FF7F, FS2KMAIN=FF5E

WeatherOptions(Orig)=40003605[40003605]

InitDelay: 0 seconds

WeatherReadInterval=4

LogOptions=00000001

126921 System time = 00:03:05, FS2004 time = 13:25:41 (20:25Z)

126921 WeatherOptions set, now 40003605 (timer=0)

149281 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -15862 (0xffffc20a) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

149343 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -15340 (0xffffc414) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

149390 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -14688 (0xffffc6a0) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

149437 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -14296 (0xffffc828) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

149484 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -14166 (0xffffc8aa) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

149546 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -13773 (0xffffca33) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

149593 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -13512 (0xffffcb38) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

149750 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -13642 (0xffffcab6) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

149796 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -15471 (0xffffc391) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

149843 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -16384 (0xffffc000) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

154781 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -14818 (0xffffc61e) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

154828 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -11032 (0xffffd4e8) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

154890 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -5680 (0xffffe9d0) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

154937 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -1764 (0xfffff91c) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

154984 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 449 (0x000001c1) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155046 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 2634 (0x00000a4a) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155093 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 3405 (0x00000d4d) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155140 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 4047 (0x00000fcf) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155187 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 4561 (0x000011d1) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155250 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 4947 (0x00001353) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155296 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 5204 (0x00001454) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155343 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 6232 (0x00001858) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155390 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 7003 (0x00001b5b) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155453 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 7517 (0x00001d5d) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155500 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 8545 (0x00002161) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155546 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 9573 (0x00002565) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155593 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 10215 (0x000027e7) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155656 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 10344 (0x00002868) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155859 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 9059 (0x00002363) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155906 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 6617 (0x000019d9) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

155953 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 4304 (0x000010d0) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

156000 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 1349 (0x00000545) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

156062 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

156109 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -2025 (0xfffff817) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

156156 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -2678 (0xfffff58a) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

156218 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -3592 (0xfffff1f8) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

156265 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -4897 (0xffffecdf) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

156312 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -8813 (0xffffdd93) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

156359 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -10510 (0xffffd6f2) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

156421 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -11816 (0xffffd1d8) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

156468 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -16384 (0xffffc000) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

318890 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -15732 (0xffffc28c) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

318953 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -15340 (0xffffc414) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

319046 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -15601 (0xffffc30f) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

319093 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65765 (0x000100e5), Param= -16384 (0xffffc000) AXIS_THROTTLE_SET

341828 System time = 00:06:40, FS2004 time = 13:27:15 (20:27Z)

341828 *** FSUIPC log file being closed

Memory managed: 2 Allocs, 1244 Freed

********* FSUIPC Log file closed ***

That was taken when the mixture axis was assigned to reverse thrust.

I hope that theres enough info to sort the problem out-if anything else is needed please ask, or if there are any other tests i can do please ask.

Thanks in advance

[Pete Dowson]

1) The spoilers are consistent with the lever up until the lever goes past Armed on the throttle quadrant in FS, then springs down to Up. Now no matter where the lever is, the spoilers stay in the Up position.

Yes, this is a function of the way FS handles the "spoiler arm" setting. Do NOT try to test spoilers on the ground -- as you move the lever it passes through the "Arm" detente. FS detects this AND the fact that you are on the ground and immediately deploys the ground spoiler setting (100%). This is wrong, but there it is. Only test/calibrate spoilers in the air.

For the reverse throttle issue, it appears that while all throttles are assigned to one lever, 1+2 are consistent with the position of the lever, 3+4 always snap to full reverse, and get struck there, similar to the spoilers.

This is without FSUIPC, or are you saying you re-installed it? And how come this is the exact reverse of what you reported before, i.e. that (your words) "3+4 don't move as far back as they should, and when reverse thrust is cancelled, 1+2 throttles turn idle, and 3+4 open fully."?

This is becoming even more confusing because you report different phenomenon each time.

Anyway, looking at the other data you provide:

First, the calibration of both throttle and reverser seems rather odd compared to that for the other axis you have set:

Throttle=-16193,16192

PropPitch=-7040,7040

Reverser=-16193,16192

These are such precise numbers and so coincidentally exactly the same, it looks as if you've not allowed any movement at either end of the lever slot for slight variations in readings. It is really essential to allow a little slack. Also, the fact that two of your levers give almost maximum readings and one gives less than half the range indicates that you've not set maximum sensitivity in FS for them all.

Please check the FS settings and make sure all the levers are set with the sensitivity slider set as far to the right as it will go, and the null zone slider as far to the left. Then recalibrate anything you use in FSUIPC with a little slack at either extreme -- this will ensure that you can get to full idle and full thrust on each.

The axis logging merely shows things working as they should, so I'm afraid that isn't of any help here.

I'm looking at ways of getting more information. What you have going on there appears to be unique. The way FSUIPC treats engines 3 and 4 is absolutely identical in every respect to Engines 1 and 2.

Please confirm which aircraft you were using in your tests -- I hope it was the default 747?

Later.

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

Okay, I checked and doubled checked everything here, and there's no way anything in FSUIPC can be doing this. Something is interfering.

Please make sure you are using the default 747, and check that you have no other DLLs in the Modules folder than FSUIPC and the standard FS ones (all those will have the same date).

To help get to the bottom of it I've added an additional logging option in FSUIPC 3.488 (attached). This shows the individual reversing axis controls sent internally by FSUIPC when you operate the reverser.

To get the extra information, please do the following:

1. Put the attached FSUIPC.DLL in the FS Modules folder.

2. Make a safe copy of your FSUIPC.INI. Then edit the one in the Modules folder as follows:

In the [General] section add:

Debug=Please
LogExtras=16
LogAxes=Yes

(the last one might be there already)

Then add a complete new section at the end (cut and paste this one):

[Monitor]
Display=3
Monitor0=0,088C,2,0
Monitor1=0,0924,2,0
Monitor2=0,09BC,2,0
Monitor3=0,0A54,2,0

Now run FS, with the default 747. Shift+4 to show the throttle quadrant.

Operate the thottle once from idle to full thrust and back, then operate the reversing lever, from idle to full reverse and back. You will see the 4 engine values on screen whilst you are doing this (those four locations 088C to 0A54 are the actual FS throttle settings).

Note what you see at each stage.

Close FS. ZIP up the Log and send it to me at petedowson@btconnect.com.

Restore the saved FSUIPC.INI file.

This is about as far as I can go in trying to identify what is going on. The log will show all the controls being sent to FS to operate the throttles, and it will also show the actual throttle values at regular intervals (as you saw on screen).

Regards,

Pete

FSUIPC3488.zip

[6maynqw]

Hi

Thanks for the info on the spoilers-it hadn't occured to me that as I was on the ground it would deploy full spoilers!

Yes I was using the Default 747, and will when I complete the tests and logging you have specified.

Sorry for the confusion about my statements of the problem. Originally when stating it, I was using a Dash 7 from the Dash 7 Project, but in the later areas (after re-installing FS2004) I went back to using the 747.

I will get the log file for you now, and hopefully will get the results needed to fix the problem. Could there be any other application/game/settings anywhere on my PC that could be causing this? I agree that it does appear as if something is interfering with the control.

I will also re-program the axis in FSUIPC to allow for null zones, and I will set the sensitivities to 100%.

I will email the log in due course.

Also, is there any way of taking screenshots in FS? This might help if one can see the throttle set.

Thanks for all the help.

[Pete Dowson]

Also, is there any way of taking screenshots in FS? This might help if one can see the throttle set.

The normal ALT + Prt Scr should save a bitmap on the clipboard for you. You then just have to paste it into a graphics program like Microsoft's Paint ands save it as a file.

I use a program called "FSScreen" (it says it is from http://fly.to/matthias-holzer but you probably need to find it on Avsim or Flightsim.com) which saves the files for you automatically, so you can take several successive pics.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I have received the Log you made with FSUIPC 3.488. This clearly shows that FSUIPC is only setting reverse for Engines 1 and 2, not for Engines 3 and 4. This can only happen if the FS value stating the number of Engines says "2", not "4".

The number of Engines is given in offset 0AEC. Why it should possibly say '2' for the default 747 I have no idea, but this is the entire reason for the problems you are having. I have never seen a case where FS declares the number of engines incorrectly -- it should make a lot of things go wrong!

Just to verify this, please go to the Logging page in FSUIPC options (ALT M F) and, looking on the right-hand side, change the first monitor offset to 0AEC, type U16, and check the "AdvDisplay" option below. Okay out to FS and load up different aircraft, including the 747. Check that the displayed value for the number of Engines is correct each time. From the log you sent it certainly wasn't correct for the 747.

Please let me know before we take any further steps. If it is showing '2' for the 747, check all your other aircraft.

I can make the number of Engines appear to be 2 for the 747 if I edit the Aircraft.CFG file and remove two of them. i.e. in this section:

[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type = 1                                 //0=Piston, 1=Jet, 2=None, 3=Helo-Turbine, 4=Rocket, 5=Turboprop
Engine.0 = -107.5, -69.5,  -6.9                 //(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from reference datum
Engine.1 = -76.0, -38.9, -10.4                  //(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from reference datum
Engine.2 = -76.0,  38.9, -10.4                  //(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from reference datum
Engine.3 = -107.5,  69.5,  -6.9                 //(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from reference datum
fuel_flow_scalar        = 1.0                   //Scalar for fuel flow efficiency
min_throttle_limit = -0.25;                     //Minimum percent throttle.  Generally negative for turbine reverser

if I delete the lines "Engine.2" and "Engine.3" then I have only two engines controllable and offset 0AEC reads 2. However, this couldn't apply in your case because you wouldn't get any movement of the other two throttles then.

So it is a real mystery. I think you have either got something installed which is interfering, or something in FS is corrupted. I really don't know how to get any further with this at all.

If 0AEC is reading incorrectly, I can only suggest you reinstall FS. The best thing to do, assuming you have enough disk space, is to rename your current FS folder (from Flight Simulator 9 to, say, "Old FS9") then install a complete new copy. That way you can check the new one as a "virgin installation", just with FSUIPC.DLL, .INI and .KEY copied over, and know for sure that the other installation is corrupted. THEN and only then process to install or copy over other things you've added -- you shouldn't actually need to reinstall things as the registry won't be messed up, But take care what you copy so you can tell what the last thing was in case it gets messed up again in the process.

A program that can compare folder contents and list the differences would be useful here, too, so you can see what's been changed. I use Directory Toolkit for that, but there are others I think.

Re-installation or parallel installation is certainly the way I would go under these circumstances -- unless that is you can identify things you've changed.

Regards,

Pete

[6maynqw]

Thanks

Will try that out now and hopefully the problem will be sorted!