Jetliner Console trim axis setup

[bellah1w]

Dear Peter

I have just received purchased a jetliner console and plugged in my jetliner yoke and pedals and I have loaded the lastest versions of the PFC driver and FSUIPC (registered of course!).

PFC have confirmed there is a wiring issue on my new console and my elevator trim is back to front and are going to get me to do a simple rewire to the analogue trim wheel but I suggested I use the trim axis page and reverse it.

Apparently this trim axis setup only works with the jet cockpit and not the jetliner console.

Could you please add to your list of PFC driver enhancements to look at the axis setup page so the PFC driver can pickup the analogoe outputs from the jetliner console trims?

It would be great to be able to customise a trim axis like you can with the yoke and rudders and throttle.

Thanks for your work as if it was not for your software I would not be able to integrate all the components I use with such relative ease.

Regards

Stephen

[Pete Dowson]

PFC have confirmed there is a wiring issue on my new console and my elevator trim is back to front and are going to get me to do a simple rewire to the analogue trim wheel but I suggested I use the trim axis page and reverse it.

Apparently this trim axis setup only works with the jet cockpit and not the jetliner console.

Erthe trim wheel on my Jetliner Console affects the elevator axis input -- there's no separate trim wheel input into my driver.

Could you please add to your list of PFC driver enhancements to look at the axis setup page so the PFC driver can pickup the analogoe outputs from the jetliner console trims?

If PFC have revised the Jetliner Console with additional axes, they've failed to inform me of any of the details. Please get back to them and clarify this. I'm rather busy today, then I'll be away from tonight (Tuesday eve) until next Tuesday, 1st November, so it would be better for you to re-check. Isn't the trim wheel a little thumb wheeled pot to the left of the pull/push parking brake switch?

Regards

Pete

[bellah1w]

Peter

It would not surprise me that the elevator trim goes direct to the elevator output so better get my soldering iron out!

I will check with Eric tonight and see if different output/input means separate output/input or what they meant is that the trims directly adust the actaul control outputs and that this is different to the jet cockpit which has spearate channels for the trims.

You are correct in that the trim wheel is the little pot next to the parking brake switch.

Have a nice time away!

Stephen

[Pete Dowson]

It would not surprise me that the elevator trim goes direct to the elevator output so better get my soldering iron out!

It is easy enough to check. Go to the flight Controls page of PFC.DLL options, watch the elevator values being read whilst you move the trim whhel. If they change, then it is only a trim pot altering the elevator input value. That's what happens here -- it alters a centre zero reading, input value 69, between 46 (output -2304) at "full" nose down trim, and 87 (output +3328) at "full" nose up trim. This is hardly the full range you may need in any case.

Really, if it is truly operating as a trimpot on the elevator axis, then it is best to keep it centred. Once it is off-centre you'll get less range on the elevator in one direction than the other -- it may effectively distort the response altogether. It would be similar to those levers on CH yokes which offset the pot's centre position. Play with it and see what I mean.

Of course it could be an adjustment performed in the firmware on the controller board, in which case this wouldn't be so much a problem.

If you have a Jetliner yoke, or any of the PFC yokes with the trim rockers on the handle, use those for trimming.

Incidentally, I've not had time to check but I think that if the trim axis is actually wired up then the appropriate page in PFC.DLL's options should see it and operate with it. On the Jet Cockpit all three trims (elevator, rudder and aileron) are actually separate axes and so feed directly the trims in FS.

Regards

Pete

[bellah1w]

Peter

I have to admit after I sent the email I thought I could check the values on the elevator page and I will do this when I get home.

I have sent an email to PFC regards the output and asked them if there is enough room on the main controller board to let the trims have a separate output.

Thanks for the tip on the reduced travel if you use the trim wheel as this would have taken me ages to work out by trial and error.

I am disapointed as all the trim wheels have a real nifty feel and whilst I have a jetliner yoke my left hand has severed nerves so rocker switches are a pain and I disable them as without touch I accidently untrim the a/c all the time!

I also used to use as a tiller the rudder trim on my throttle quadrant from PFC as it was smoother than the rudders which is what is needed with the twitchy ground response on MSFS.

I will report on my discussions with PFC.

Stephen

[Pete Dowson]

... whilst I have a jetliner yoke my left hand has severed nerves so rocker switches are a pain and I disable them as without touch I accidently untrim the a/c all the time!

If you don't mind losing the view options on one of the right-hand rockers you could program one of those for electric trim. Or you could use the buttons fore and after if you prefer.

Regards

Pete

[bellah1w]

Peter

I will reassign some rocker switches as you suggest but thanks again for saving me a month working out that the trims reduce travel!

Stephen

[Pete Dowson]

I will reassign some rocker switches as you suggest but thanks again for saving me a month working out that the trims reduce travel!

Only trims which alter the main control do that. ;-)

Pete

[bellah1w]

Peter

I have spoken to PFC and they have confirmed that the trims feed into the main control output.

I have asked them whether now with your new driver there is space on the controller give the trims their own output.

I would have thought since they have moved to the new jet cockpit there would be some room on the board for the other devices that used to be attach to the jetliner console. I will post an update as a continuation of this thread.

As a side issue if the trim page is not totally disabled and if you check the boxes to enable the trims it locks up all the main controls with the jetliner console. I found this out due to me trying to use that page to fix the elevator trim. Perhaps a warning on the page with your next update to only use these boxes with the jet cockpit.

Regards

Stephen

[Pete Dowson]

I would have thought since they have moved to the new jet cockpit there would be some room on the board for the other devices that used to be attach to the jetliner console.

The trouble is, I think it may be a new controller board, not just a firmware update, so even if they could do it and could could change the wiring to it, I doubt that it would be a cheap upgrade.

As a side issue if the trim page is not totally disabled and if you check the boxes to enable the trims it locks up all the main controls with the jetliner console.

What do you mean by "locks up"? I can enable them all here with no ill effect (I still have an ordinary Jetliner console too). All that happens with the trim inputs enabled is that, if (and only if) any such inputs arrive, then they are obeyed. But none should arrive.

Possibly, for some reason, your controller board is providing such trim inputs with spurious values? Can you check? Try logging the axis inputs (one or other of the options on the Test page).

Perhaps a warning on the page with your next update to only use these boxes with the jet cockpit.

Well, the warning would need to be applied to the main controls as well. It is possible to have no axis inputs (Jetliner yokes can be supplied which are direct-connected to the PC, same with rudder). In fact almost any mixture of inputs is possible, so the only sensible warning is "don't enable this unless you have it connected". But isn't that, like, common sense?

Regards,

Pete

[bellah1w]

Sorry been away over east so I am a bit late....

PFC did not say much but I understand that the controller board is getting fairly full so I don't think the trims can be given separate outputs.

This is a shame because the development you have done with your PFC driver could have been more widely appreciated.

The way the trim works now by redcing the travel is a tad annoying and basically renders the trims useless all but for minute adjustments.

It seems the problem with the trims page after much investigation is that I also checked the box for nose wheel steering which was obviously rendering the rudder inoperable until the change over speed. I will stay way from this page until I have either a shaker unit or a stering tiller I promise.

On wards and upwards and don't forget the jetliner console users while u blast around in your new wicked cockpit! :D :D :D

[Pete Dowson]

The way the trim works now by redcing the travel is a tad annoying and basically renders the trims useless all but for minute adjustments.

Use the electric trim on the yoke, as real pilots do. Never use the trims on the console except for initial setting up: they are "trim pots" not aircraft trim wheels.

don't forget the jetliner console users while u blast around in your new wicked cockpit!

My test rig is still using a Jetliner console, but there really is no more development I can do for it. Everything works as needed, and you can re-program pretty much anything you want through FSUIPC.

Regards,

Pete