Kohlsman, Barometric, Altimeter, Kollsman - the same?

[peterhayes]

Hi Pete

I wonder if you can explain this to me. I am asking the question as I am NOT familiar with all of the technical terms used in aviation.

I have read the manuals but cannot find the solution. In the FSX Commands list supplied by Microsoft there is no mention of either “Barometric” or “Kohslman”, they use the (equivalent?) term Altimeter. Reading your ‘List of FSX Controls’ there is no mention of “Altimeter” anywhere! My question is which of “your” controls ie Barometric (65584), Barometric_STD_Pressure (66846) or Kohlsman_Set (66040) correspond to the FSX listed commands:

Altimeter Standard Pressure

Altimeter Reset (Assigned keystroke “b/B” by default)

I am aware that you give an example of setting the standard pressure using a “hot key” and there is a command “SetStdBaroKey” assigned in your example to “CTRL+SHIFT+B”, but this just adds to the confusion.

If any of these 3 commands do the same thing why do they have different control numbers? Is there any chance that you might cross reference these to “Altimeter” (where appropriate) in future FSUIPC manuals?

Is Kohlsman the same as Kollsman?

Please enlighten my darkness!

Thanks

Peter Hayes

[Pete Dowson]

Reading your ‘List of FSX Controls’ there is no mention of “Altimeter” anywhere! My question is which of “your” controls

Not "mine", the FS controls are extracted from the FS "CONTROLS.DLL", and use the names they supply there.

ie Barometric (65584), Barometric_STD_Pressure (66846) or Kohlsman_Set (66040) correspond to the FSX listed commands

Altimeter Standard Pressure

Altimeter Reset (Assigned keystroke “b/B” by default)

Barometric STD must of course be Altimeter Standard, which I think only works to the North American standard for flight levels (18000 feet)

Barometric is obviously the 'B' or "Altimeter Reset" (a cheat -- nothing of the sort exists on a real aircraft)

Kohlsman Set is a way of directly setting the value, in 1/16s of a hPA. It takes that as a parameter.

Why not just try them if you aren't sure. It would actually be quicker than posting here! ;-)

The name Kollsman (as it should be spelled -- Microsoft mis-spelled it right since FS5 days) comes from the German company which originally made altimeters with the small window showing the pressure setting. It became known as the "Kollsman Window".

I am aware that you give an example of setting the standard pressure using a “hot key” and there is a command “SetStdBaroKey” assigned in your example to “CTRL+SHIFT+B”, but this just adds to the confusion.

Thanks! :-( I don't see why you are so confused in the first place. There are lots and lots more controls listed in CONTROLS.DLL which are much more confusing, including some which are completely misnamed and many which may or may not work. Getting confused over trivia which is so easy to verify yourself is rather surprising really.

The hot key facility (and example) for "STD" setting arose because such a control was not originally provided by FS, and in any case I think theirs is related only to North America (though I'm not sure about that). Airliners have an "STD" button on the EFIS switch panel -- this does the same thing when changing from altitudes to flight levels.

If any of these 3 commands do the same thing why do they have different control numbers?

None of them do the same thing.

Is there any chance that you might cross reference these to “Altimeter” (where appropriate) in future FSUIPC manuals?

No, sorry, no chance. There is no way I am going to embark on trying to interpret a varying set (from FS release to FS release) of FS-defined controls. I define the ones I add, the specific FSUIPC controls for special things, but no way will I start on a never-ending job of attempting to document FS's controls. I did try that in FS98 days. Ugh.

Just try them -- it is surely quick and easy to assign one, and try it.

Pete

[peterhayes]

Hi Pete

Thanks for your very comprenhensive reply, I'm sure this will help a lot of people. I did try them all and they seemed to do the same function. Many of us are not as competent or as sure as you are about what various controls do or don't do and we need you to confirm that we are heading in the right direction. By the way if I had to try every control in FSUIPC or FSX that I wasn't sure about, I would never fly! Surely its much easier to get this information from a recognised respected expert (like your good self) than use a trial and error approach?

I would have liked to see the manual changed to reflect what is now documented in FSX commands and I am happy to help you on this latter point and would be willing under your tuition to change/cross reference all of those "old" commands into the "new" ones used in FSX. (there are quite a few more, eg "look", nav1/gps and toggle).

Regards

PeterH

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks for your very comprenhensive reply, I'm sure this will help a lot of people. I did try them all and they seemed to do the same function.

If they all seem to do the same I'm sure whatever they are doing doesn't matter to you much. As long as you set the altimeter to read the ground elevation before taking off, you'll be okay for the sort of flying you are doing. When you get more into it the differences will become more evident in any case.

By the way if I had to try every control in FSUIPC or FSX that I wasn't sure about, I would never fly!

:-) :-) Same, here, except I'd never program either. Do you really think I've tried them all or know what they all do in such a certain way I could write them up?

Believe me, I did start out in FS98 days, but it is a never-ending thankless task with no real benefits in the end. Mostly you don't need to know about any of it in any case. If you want to do something, you know what it is you want to do and you go investigate the things that look likely to do them. There's no point listing things "just in case" in such a technical arena, believe me.

Regards

Pete

[peterhayes]

Pete

Thanks. My offer still stands!! Many questions that I ask are to increase my knowledge base not necessarily to solve an issue. Your answers make that possible. Now I'm off to progarm pushback left and pushback right to 2 buttons on an X-52 joystick -if I run into trouble you may well get another series of inane questions. Any holiday due?

Regards

PeterH

[Pete Dowson]

My offer still stands!

Okay. Thanks. I'll bear it in mind!

Now I'm off to progarm pushback left and pushback right to 2 buttons

Problem there is that is really does need 3 buttons. One to request pushback. As you start being pushed you look out the side windows to see when you then need to select the '1' or '2' ("SELECT 1" and "SELECT 2" controls, I think they are). That makes three buttons. You make the selection about one plane-length from the line you want to be on. Then to push the original push button again to stop it all when lined up - it's a toggle.

FSUIPC does include the necessary code to make sure you can actually look sideways between the Pushback request and the selection -- FS doesn't actually allow that else.

I suppose you could work out a way of using two buttons -- you'd have to hold the button down till you wanted the turn selected, then release it -- program pushback on both button "press" and the Select 1 or 2 on the release. Two problems I can see with that: first you probably cannot hold the button in and get another button seen to select a view. Second, you'd have to push the same button again after, to stop the pushback, which leaves a spare "select" key operating. that's probably harmless, but you never know.

Most of this can be programmed around using FSUIPC's conditionals and flags, editing these in the FSUIPC INI file, but it can become more complicated than it is worth. Best to try the way I said first.

Any holiday due?

Just came back from a short visit to my son in Galicia. Next one starts at the end of this month -- Serbia and Bulgaria, steam railways again. ;-)

Regards

Pete

[peterhayes]

Hi Pete

Enjoy your holiday. I visited Poland as a young man but never got as far as Galicia, too much "cold war" red tape at that time!!

I love steam trains I spent many happy hours as a ragamuffin trainspotting in the Potteries and W Midlands (even saw the 4 "named" Staniers)!! It was also a great thrill to see King George V (Bell ringing if we annoyed the driver enough by playing "chicken") about 3-4 miles from Hereford station (Bradbury Lines) on its way to Welsh Wales. I could reminisce all day!!

I managed to program 3 buttons as suggested P/B straight, PB Left, PB Right. I was able to manage that because of the replies you give to people like me in your forum. I am truly grateful.

The code:

17=P4,22,K80,9 }

18=P4,22,K49,8 } LEFT

19=P4,20,K80,9 }

20=P4,20,K50,8 } RIGHT

and I just use the FSX pushback(start/stop) assigned to another button to give straight p/b..

Regards

PeterH

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Pete

Enjoy your holiday. I visited Poland as a young man but never got as far as Galicia, too much "cold war" red tape at that time!!

Actually, Galicia is the North-West-most province of Spain, just North of Portugal. Our son lives right near the border with Portugal.

Our last railway holiday (in June) was through Hungary, Slovakia and southern Poland -- very good, reliable railway system including superbly kept steam locos.

I managed to program 3 buttons as suggested P/B straight, PB Left, PB Right.

Good.

Regards

Pete

[peterhayes]

Hi Pete

Sorry, I though that you meant Galicia in the Central Ukraine.

Ah Well

Thanks

PeterH