CH Joystick Calibration Doldrums (and Minor Bug)

[jahman]

Howdy!

Newby here, with documentation read (and mostly understood), but likely dealing with some conceptual difficulties.

Environment:

Running: FSX and FSUIPC v. 4.205, reading all axes in "Direct" mode.

With: CH Products Yoke, Pro Pedals and Throttle Quadrant.

Without: CH Control Center

Also: GoFlight MCP-PRO and EFIS Modules

Aicraft: FSX stock Beech Super King Air 350

FSX: Joysticks disabled

Lofty Goal: Replacing *all* FSX control and keyboard configuration with FSUIPC. Will post

results :-)

A. Direct-Joystick Wrong Input Range Read

Sporadically at start-up, FSUIPC will read all my joystick input values in the (0, 255) range(*), but then revert to the regular, normal and expected (0, 65536) range after I exit the FSUIPC Dialog Box with "Accept" (sometimes I need to repeat this procedure).

(*) NOTE: Range numbers are actually negative as I have the "Rev" box checked in most cases.

B. Throttle Quadrant Lever Low Detent Range not Read

When calibrating the Throttle Quadrant levers (with joystick ranges operating properly), FSUIPC sees the lever direct input remain pegged at -65536 (reverse is checked!) while the lever is moved along the range below the detent (the "thrust reverse" range.) The output is correct at -4096, but remains fixed throught the reverse thrust detent range. Above the detent the range is (0, 65536). This makes setting a zero thrust range at the detent difficult. All six levers are affected. But perhaps this is how it´s supposed to be?

C. Minor Bug: Yoke Axis Mislabelled

The yoke rightmost lever is labelled "U" by CH Control Center and "V" by FSUIPC. No idea if this difference is important, just passing it on.

D. Info Needed: FS Command Parameters

I have checked the FSUIPC and FSX SDK documentation but can´t seem to find info on the parameters for those FS Commands that take parameters. Many are obiously 0 or 1, but others are not so obvious. Any pointers to this info will be much appreciated.

PS: My FSUIPC.ini is attached (I believe) but somehow it´s not showing...?

Thanks!

-jahman

(SABE)

Can´t seem to figure how to upload my FSUIPC.ini file (and he wants to fly them heavies, he says!) so here it is:

[General]

History=RI2X7W2ZKAQAMKQ40G9U3

TCASid=Flight

TCASrange=40

AxisCalibration=No

DirectAxesToCalibs=No

ShowMultilineWindow=Yes

SuppressSingleline=No

SuppressMultilineFS=No

WeatherReadFactor=2

SimConnectStallTime=1

GraduatedVisibility=No

LowerVisAltitude=0

UpperVisAltitude=25000

UpperVisibility=10000

MinimumVisibility=0

MaximumVisibilityFewClouds=0

MaximumVisibility=0

MaximumVisibilityOvercast=0

MaximumVisibilityRainy=0

SetVisUpperAlt=No

VisUpperAltLimit=0

ExtendMetarMaxVis=No

OneCloudLayer=No

CloudTurbulence=No

CloudIcing=No

GenerateCirrus=No

SuppressCloudTurbulence=No

MaxIce=-4

MinIce=-4

UpperWindGusts=Yes

SuppressWindTurbulence=No

WindTurbulence=Yes

SuppressAllGusts=No

MaxSurfaceWind=0

WindLimitLevel=200

WindDiscardLevel=400

WindAjustAltitude=No

WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000

DisconnTrimForAP=Yes

ZeroElevForAPAlt=No

ThrottleSyncAll=No

WhiteMessages=No

ShowPMcontrols=No

MagicBattery=10

RudderSpikeRemoval=Yes

ElevatorSpikeRemoval=Yes

AileronSpikeRemoval=Yes

ReversedElevatorTrim=No

ClockSync=No

ClockSyncMins=5

ClearWeatherDynamics=No

FixWindows=No

OwnWeatherChanges=No

TimeForSelect=4

LoadFlightMenu=Yes

LoadPlanMenu=Yes

PauseAfterCrash=Yes

ShortAircraftNameOk=No

WindSmoothing=No

WindSmoothness=2

WindSmoothAirborneOnly=Yes

SpoilerIncrement=512

ZapSound=firework

AxisIntercepts=No

WeatherRewriteDelay=10

ProcessGlobalWeather=No

[WideServer]

WideFSenabled=No

AdvertiseService=1

Port=8002

Port2=9002

[GPSout]

Port=

Speed=4800

Interval=1000

PosTo6Decimal=Yes

Sentences=

GPSoutEnabled=No

[AutoSave]

AutoSaveEnabled=Yes

Interval=120

Files=1

SaveOnGround=No

Next=1

1=Fri 234623

2=Mon 202741

3=Mon 204137

4=Mon 201942

5=Mon 202142

6=Thu 053815

7=Thu 053915

8=Thu 054014

9=Thu 054114

10=Thu 054213

[JoystickCalibration]

ExclThrottleSet=No

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=66731

RudderTrimControl=66732

CowlFlaps1Control=66162

CowlFlaps2Control=66163

CowlFlaps3Control=66164

CowlFlaps4Control=66165

MaxSteerSpeed=60

SteeringTillerControl=0

Elevator=-65535,-33548,-33548,-255/16

Aileron=-65535,-32768,-32768,-255/16

Spoilers=0,65535

ElevatorTrim=-16380,-512,512,16380/16

PanHeading=-1,-1,0,31500

Rudder=-65535,-31999,-31999,-255/16

LeftBrake=-65535,-255/16

RightBrake=-65535,-255/16

MapThr12to34=Yes

MapThr12to123=Yes

Throttle1=-65535,-64234,-64234,0/16

Throttle2=-65535,-65274,-65274,0/16

MapCowl1to1234=Yes

MapCowl12to123=Yes

MapCowl12to34=Yes

Mixture1=-65535,-58513,-56173,0/16

Mixture2=-65535,-59813,-58513,0/16

PropPitch1=-65535,-59033,-58513,0/16

PropPitch2=-65535,-58513,-58513,0/16

SlewAlt=-16380,-512,512,16380/16

SlewSide=-16380,-512,512,16380/16

SlewAhead=-16380,-512,512,16380/16

SlewHeading=-16380,-512,512,16380/16

CowlFlaps1=0,16380/16

[buttons]

1=P2,16,C66537,1

2=P2,18,C66538,1

3=P2,17,C66537,0

4=P2,19,C66538,0

5=P2,20,C66494,0

6=P2,21,C66494,1

7=P2,22,C66495,0

8=P2,23,C66495,1

9=P1,4,C66079,0

10=P1,5,C66080,0

11=P1,6,C65759,0

12=P1,7,C65758,0

29=P1,2,C66172,0

30=P1,3,C66173,0

31=P1,1,C66514,0

33=P1,0,C66513,0

34=R1,10,C65607,0

35=R1,11,C65615,0

38=P2,0,C66609,0

39=P2,1,C66612,0

40=P2,2,C66616,0

41=P2,3,C66615,0

42=P2,4,C66624,0

43=P2,5,C66617,0

44=P2,6,C66626,0

45=P2,7,C66625,0

46=P2,8,C66628,0

47=P2,9,C66627,0

48=P2,10,C66618,0

49=P2,11,C66623,0

[Keys]

3=86,8,66722,0

4=32,10,66852,0

5=189,8,66700,0

6=187,8,66699,0

7=32,9,65752,0

8=69,10,66224,0

9=69,9,66389,0

10=13,12,65553,0

11=80,8,65561,0

12=81,8,65552,0

13=83,8,65589,0

14=89,11,66807,0

15=89,8,65557,0

[Axes]

0=0X,R3,D,7,0,0,0

1=0Y,R3,D,8,0,0,0

2=0Z,R3,D,3,0,0,0

3=1X,R3,D,1,0,0,0

4=1Y,R3,D,2,0,0,0

5=1Z,R3,D,22,0,0,0

6=1R,R3,D,29,0,0,0

7=1V,R3,D,21,0,0,0

8=1P,R3,D,33,0,0,0

9=2X,R3,D,9,0,0,0

10=2Y,R3,D,10,0,0,0

11=2Z,R3,D,17,0,0,0

12=2R,R3,D,18,0,0,0

13=2U,R3,D,14,0,0,0

14=2V,R3,D,13,0,0,0

[Monitor]

Display=9

Cheers,

jahman.

[Pete Dowson]

Running: FSX and FSUIPC v. 4.205, reading all axes in "Direct" mode.

Why "direct"? I would really not advise that unless you explicitly want to use the actual values, with no calibration, scaling and so on. That hardly ever applies -- it is intended for "soft" axes (ones controlled by software) such as those programmable with an EPIC card.

I would very strongly advise disabling Direct mode on every axis. Please do that then re-check your items A - C.

I have checked the FSUIPC and FSX SDK documentation but can´t seem to find info on the parameters for those FS Commands that take parameters. Many are obiously 0 or 1, but others are not so obvious. Any pointers to this info will be much appreciated.

The oldest original list "FS2000Ctls" (for FS2000) had some help, but it became impossible to maintain. Check that if you like -- it is still available on http://www.schiratti.com/dowson. Otherwise mostly it is a matter of trial and error I'm afraid, but if you have any difficulty ask regarding particular controls and if i know I'll tell you. Or use FSUIPC's logging -- you can log all events from controls and from axes, then use the controls on the panels in FS and see what was sent -- control value and parameter are logged.

Regards

Pete

[jahman]

Why "direct"? I would really not advise that unless you explicitly want to use the actual values, with no calibration, scaling and so on. That hardly ever applies -- it is intended for "soft" axes (ones controlled by software) such as those programmable with an EPIC card.

I would very strongly advise disabling Direct mode on every axis. Please do that then re-check your items A - C.

Done! As a newbie I was not aware from reading the manual that the Direct mode is not advised for aircraft control joysticks. Also, I was not aware that the "Joystick Calibration" FSPUIPC Tab is not the same as the hardaware device calibration offered by FSX. Perhaps this is not explained in the documentation.

Now upon further inspection (See: posting.php?mode=reply&f=54&t=66778 ) I gather by "Why direct"? you mean "Why raw?"

(since "Direct" is needed for FSUIPC Joystick Calibration for the thrust reversers.)

So I set my joysticks back to "Direct" and removed the "Raw" part.

Now "A" in my initial post no longer occurs! Hooray!

But "B" gets the best of me: As soon as the throttle levers fall into the detent, I get the -4096 thrust setting for reverse, regardless of how I calibrate the throttles.

I´ve already spent several days on this... And I thought this was going to be easy... :-(

Kind regards,

Andrew.

My FSUIPC.ini:

[General]

History=D6NCUKQKZYQ47Y9PM2VG4

TCASid=Flight

TCASrange=40

AxisCalibration=No

DirectAxesToCalibs=No

ShowMultilineWindow=Yes

SuppressSingleline=No

SuppressMultilineFS=No

WeatherReadFactor=2

SimConnectStallTime=1

GraduatedVisibility=No

LowerVisAltitude=0

UpperVisAltitude=25000

UpperVisibility=10000

MinimumVisibility=0

MaximumVisibilityFewClouds=0

MaximumVisibility=0

MaximumVisibilityOvercast=0

MaximumVisibilityRainy=0

SetVisUpperAlt=No

VisUpperAltLimit=0

ExtendMetarMaxVis=No

OneCloudLayer=No

CloudTurbulence=No

CloudIcing=No

GenerateCirrus=No

SuppressCloudTurbulence=No

MaxIce=-4

MinIce=-4

UpperWindGusts=Yes

SuppressWindTurbulence=No

WindTurbulence=Yes

SuppressAllGusts=No

MaxSurfaceWind=0

WindLimitLevel=200

WindDiscardLevel=400

WindAjustAltitude=No

WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000

DisconnTrimForAP=Yes

ZeroElevForAPAlt=No

ThrottleSyncAll=No

WhiteMessages=No

ShowPMcontrols=No

MagicBattery=10

RudderSpikeRemoval=Yes

ElevatorSpikeRemoval=Yes

AileronSpikeRemoval=Yes

ReversedElevatorTrim=No

ClockSync=No

ClockSyncMins=5

ClearWeatherDynamics=No

FixWindows=No

OwnWeatherChanges=No

TimeForSelect=4

LoadFlightMenu=Yes

LoadPlanMenu=Yes

PauseAfterCrash=Yes

ShortAircraftNameOk=No

WindSmoothing=No

WindSmoothness=2

WindSmoothAirborneOnly=Yes

SpoilerIncrement=512

ZapSound=firework

AxisIntercepts=No

WeatherRewriteDelay=10

ProcessGlobalWeather=No

[WideServer]

WideFSenabled=No

AdvertiseService=1

Port=8002

Port2=9002

[GPSout]

Port=

Speed=4800

Interval=1000

PosTo6Decimal=Yes

Sentences=

GPSoutEnabled=No

[AutoSave]

AutoSaveEnabled=Yes

Interval=120

Files=1

SaveOnGround=No

Next=1

1=Fri 234623

2=Mon 202741

3=Mon 204137

4=Mon 201942

5=Mon 202142

6=Thu 053815

7=Thu 053915

8=Thu 054014

9=Thu 054114

10=Thu 054213

[JoystickCalibration]

ExclThrottleSet=No

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=66731

RudderTrimControl=66732

CowlFlaps1Control=66162

CowlFlaps2Control=66163

CowlFlaps3Control=66164

CowlFlaps4Control=66165

MaxSteerSpeed=60

SteeringTillerControl=0

Elevator=-16384,0,0,16256

Aileron=-16384,0,0,16256

Spoilers=0,65535

ElevatorTrim=-16380,-512,512,16380/16

PanHeading=-1,-1,0,31500

Rudder=-16384,0,0,16256

LeftBrake=-16256,16384/16

RightBrake=-16256,16384/16

MapThr12to34=Yes

MapThr12to123=Yes

Throttle1=-16384,-10922,-10662,16383

Throttle2=-16384,-10922,-10922,16383

MapCowl1to1234=Yes

MapCowl12to123=Yes

MapCowl12to34=Yes

Mixture1=-16384,-10662,-10662,16383

Mixture2=-16384,-10662,-10662,16383

PropPitch1=-16384,-10792,-10792,16383

PropPitch2=-16384,-10532,-10532,16383

SlewAlt=-16380,-512,512,16380/16

SlewSide=-16380,-512,512,16380/16

SlewAhead=-16380,-512,512,16380/16

SlewHeading=-16380,-512,512,16380/16

CowlFlaps1=0,16380/16

[buttons]

1=P2,16,C66537,1

2=P2,18,C66538,1

3=P2,17,C66537,0

4=P2,19,C66538,0

5=P2,20,C66494,0

6=P2,21,C66494,1

7=P2,22,C66495,0

8=P2,23,C66495,1

9=P1,4,C66079,0

10=P1,5,C66080,0

11=P1,6,C65759,0

12=P1,7,C65758,0

29=P1,2,C66172,0

30=P1,3,C66173,0

31=P1,1,C66514,0

33=P1,0,C66513,0

34=R1,10,C65607,0

35=R1,11,C65615,0

38=P2,0,C66609,0

39=P2,1,C66612,0

40=P2,2,C66616,0

41=P2,3,C66615,0

42=P2,4,C66624,0

43=P2,5,C66617,0

44=P2,6,C66626,0

45=P2,7,C66625,0

46=P2,8,C66628,0

47=P2,9,C66627,0

48=P2,10,C66618,0

49=P2,11,C66623,0

50=P1,9,C66852,0

51=P1,8,C66853,0

52=R1,32,C65735,0

53=R1,33,C65857,0

54=R1,34,C65672,0

55=R1,35,C65856,0

56=R1,36,C65734,0

57=R1,37,C65854,0

58=R1,38,C65671,0

59=R1,39,C65855,0

[Keys]

5=189,8,66700,0

6=187,8,66699,0

7=32,9,65752,0

8=69,10,66224,0

9=69,9,66389,0

10=13,12,65553,0

14=89,11,66807,0

16=80,10,65561,0

17=81,10,65552,0

18=89,10,65557,0

19=86,10,66722,0

[Axes]

0=0X,3,D,7,0,0,0

1=0Y,3,D,8,0,0,0

2=0Z,3,D,3,0,0,0

3=1X,3,D,1,0,0,0

4=1Y,3,D,2,0,0,0

5=1Z,3,D,22,0,0,0

6=1R,3,D,29,0,0,0

7=1V,3,D,21,0,0,0

8=1P,3,D,33,0,0,0

9=2X,3,D,9,0,0,0

10=2Y,3,D,10,0,0,0

11=2Z,3,D,17,0,0,0

12=2R,3,D,18,0,0,0

13=2U,3,D,14,0,0,0

14=2V,3,D,13,0,0,0

[Monitor]

Display=9

[Pete Dowson]

As a newbie I was not aware from reading the manual that the Direct mode is not advised for aircraft control joysticks.

Ouch ouch! cMea culpe! I meant "raw" -- the 0-255 range thing implies Raw and I said direct. Damn. I'm getting senile. So sorry.

You can use Direct to FSUIPC all you like. That's not the problem, sorry. It was only the 0-255 range which worried me.

Also, I was not aware that the "Joystick Calibration" FSPUIPC Tab is not the same as the hardaware device calibration offered by FSX. Perhaps this is not explained in the documentation.

FS doesn't actually offer any calibration itself. If you try to invoke that it simply calls the Windows Game Controllers. you are better of setting up and calibrating everything before you get anywhere near FS itself. "RAW" mode bypasses the Windows calibration, but as I said I don't advise that except for software controlled axes.

I think the documentation I provide is clear that the FSUIPC calibration for FS controls is based on making the CONTROLS inside FS more accuratley do what you want. The basic setup from windows has to be reasonably good in the first place otherwise it only has poor material to work with.

So I set my joysticks back to "Direct" and removed the "Raw" part.

Ah, good. Glad you got over my bad mistake earlier.

But "B" gets the best of me: As soon as the throttle levers fall into the detent, I get the -4096 thrust setting for reverse, regardless of how I calibrate the throttles.

What is this "detente"? Is that where you calibrated your Idle position? Your calibration figures are (do you have one or two throttle levers, BTW?):

Throttle1=-16384,-10922,-10662,16383

Throttle2=-16384,-10922,-10922,16383

which seems to place the idle very low, and with barely enough moving space between lower idle and upper idle. Maybe there's not really much gradation on your levers between -10922 and -16384?

Can you tell me which aircraft this is with, please? Choose something like the default 737. Observing the throttle quadrant panel whilst pulling the lever(s) back, what happens when you pull back passed idle?

I´ve already spent several days on this... And I thought this was going to be easy... :-(

Well, it is, really. I can't see what you can see so I don't know why it has been such a problem for you. Sorry.

Regards

Pete

[peterhayes]

PeteD and Jahman

I notice in the first post that Jahaman says, "Without: CH Control Center". Unfortunately I believe that if you do not install (not necessarily use) the CHCM it is much more difficult to set up reverse thrust in FSUIPC. I have just posted a topic to Bob Church on the CH-Hangar on this point (http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5141). In essence Bob says that you should install the CHCM for the CH products to perform well in FSX/FS9. Part of his reply: "There are a couple of good reasons for installing the CM even if you're not going to use a map. There's a bug in Windows that will disconnect the controllers under certain circumstances with the standard Windows drivers. Usually it's reported with the pedals going dead after they've set for about 20 minutes without being moved (and it's not just that Windows has cut the power). Also, it's the CM drivers that provide the Detent and MinZone buttons on the TQ. Finally, it calibrates center on the rudders, something that MS has never thought necessary." The detent and min zone point certainly helps when using FSUIPC for Reverse thust (after calibrating in windows). If the CHCM is installed. opening the windows calibration page with the TQ you now get a "throttle settings page" and this shows all 6 axes, X, Y, Z, R, U, V and under these axes you can set the "MIN", "MAX", "DEAD ZONE" and "DETENTE". If you set the detent to 240 (as you would in CHCM) this makes it easy to set up reverse thrust in FSUIPC corresponding to the physical detent position on the TQ. If you the uninstall the CHCM you just get the standard test/calibrate tab with no frills and it is sometimes difficult to set up reverse thrust corresponding to the detent, ie the FSUIPC value for the "MIN" does not usually change when you move the lever to the detent. For example on my system with CHCM installed, calibrated in Windows the FSUIPC.ini gives these values:Throttle1=-16193,-14258,-12196,16192, (MIN, Detent, Detent, MAX)giving a null zone at the TQ detent and not initiating Reverse thrust until the lever moves toward the minimum. Now remove CHCM and still calibrate in windows an my throttle 1 would probably read:Throttle1=-16193,-16193,-16193,16192, you can still set reverse thrust but it may not correspond to the actual physical TQ detent position.

I've probably explained this badly so I hope you can see what I am getting at?

1.Install CHCM (no need to run it)

2. Assign as many axes, buttons, etc as you can in FS9/FSX

3. Calibrate in Windows, set sensitivities, null zones etc

4. Fine Tune in FSUIPC.

Regards

PeterH

FL7X

[jahman]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

And as I checked the CH Control manager - Throttle Quadrant - Throttle Setting Tab, I find that my Max Value = Detent Value = 255, which is why my throttle axis FSUIPC "IN" values would remain pegged at 65536 (Raw) (Now 255 "non-Raw") as I moved the lever along the IdleDetent-to-Reverse range.

The additional info from CH-Hangar is also of the invaluable kind! Likely saved me a zillion hours of debug.

Thanks a million, Peter!

(Any relation to Wallace ("Wally") D. Hayes?)

Cheers,

Andrew.

[peterhayes]

Andrew

You are welcome!

Not related to Wally D Hayes more likely to Wallace & Grommit

Regards

PeterH