Goflight TQ6

[James Stephen]

HI,

I just got the Goflight TQ6 and I'm trying to set it up. I also have a Saitek X45 stick/throttle combo. I want to use the TQ6 for most of my flying but I need to have the Saitek for the joystick.

I orginally set up the TQ6 using the goflight config sofware (seamed easy enough?) but it's not responding correctly for all levers.

So now I'm going to try FSUIPC to set it up.

Questions:

1) If I use FSUIPC should I not use or uninstall the Goflight software?

2) is there a possible conflict between having both the TQ-6 and Saitek X45 throttle?

3) For a test I also set up the MSFS default DC3 using the goflight software (did not work) So then I used FSUIPC (assigned axes, and calibrated) to set leavers A/B for props, C/D throttle and E/F for mixture. But when I pull F for one of the mixtures it sets the flaps all the way? And then the only way to get the flaps back up is to use the button I assigned t othe Saitek to retract flaps, because moving the goflight lever back up doesnt retract the flaps. The prop leavers work. Only lever D works for one engine, lever C doesnt do anything?

This is probably too much info, but I'm at a loss. Seams simple enough to set up using Goflight software or FSUIPC but the result is that some levers work fine and others don't?

[Pete Dowson]

1) If I use FSUIPC should I not use or uninstall the Goflight software?

Sorry, I don't know what the GoFlight software does. I'd try it both ways and see. As far as I know the GoFlight TQ works just as a set of axes and a few buttons, so I would think it could be used directly.

2) is there a possible conflict between having both the TQ-6 and Saitek X45 throttle?

Only if you let either FS or their drivers assign the same functions to different axes and these interact with each other through "jitter" (unrequested changes).

3) For a test I also set up the MSFS default DC3 using the goflight software (did not work) So then I used FSUIPC (assigned axes, and calibrated) to set leavers A/B for props, C/D throttle and E/F for mixture. But when I pull F for one of the mixtures it sets the flaps all the way?

Evidently somewhere you have flaps assigned to that axis -- it isn't possible otherwise. Somewhere in one of the drivers or in FS, if not in FSUIPC, you have flaps on that axis.

Incidentally, flaps are not a good first candidate for an analogue axis because the flaps are controlled in specific notches. FSUIPC does have a facilty for calibrating those notches, so I'd try that if I were you. But you'll also find that flaps and spoilers/speedbarake both normally need reversing -- full forward positions being "off". Make sure you check the Reverse option BEFORE calibrating.

And then the only way to get the flaps back up is to use the button I assigned t othe Saitek to retract flaps, because moving the goflight lever back up doesnt retract the flaps. The prop leavers work. Only lever D works for one engine, lever C doesnt do anything?

No idea what you've done wrong, there, but to be brutally honest, if I bought expensive gear like the GoFlight stuff and it didn't work, even after reading the manual, I'd first contact their support. Have you done so? Really, unless you know that your kit actually works it seems a bit pointless messing with it in FSUIPC.

Get it working as GoFlight Inc intended you to first. Delete your FSUIPC INI file and start all over again. Check the assignments in FS, and especially make sure all the Sensitivity sliders are at max (full right) and the null zone sliders at minimum (full left). FSUIPC is for more accurate tuning, fancy mappings, response curves and so on, not for miraculously making things work which are already broken. Sorry.

Regards

Pete

[James Stephen]

Thanks Pete,

I thnk you are right, I need to make sure it works the basic the way Goflight intended. I see from my post that I have too much going here.

One last question:

I have used FSUIPC to program the Saitek X45, can I delete TQ6 sections of the FSUIPC INI so I don't cause problems with the Saitek, or do I have to deleate the entire file and start over with the X45?

Thanks.

James

[Pete Dowson]

I have used FSUIPC to program the Saitek X45, can I delete TQ6 sections of the FSUIPC INI so I don't cause problems with the Saitek, or do I have to deleate the entire file and start over with the X45?

Just delete the bits to do with the TQ6 -- you'll need to check the joystick number to identify the lines.

Pete

[James Stephen]

OK, I backed up the FSUIPC INI file and deleated it from the modules folder as a test.

What happened was that the TQ6 seamed to work, however as discussed previously the X45 was dead so I put the original back. Below is a copy of the INI file that I backed up.

You mentioned "Just delete the bits to do with the TQ6 -- you'll need to check the joystick number to identify the lines".

How do I find out what the joystick # is? Below is a copy of the INI file that I backed up.Can you possible identify the Saitek bits? I know that the various aircraft listed are my attempts at getting the TQ6 configured, so those can go.

[General]

History=MJA2F5FAV5X49WYU9LCW4

TCASid=Flight

TCASrange=40

TrafficScanPerFrame=10

AxisCalibration=No

CentredDialogue=Yes

ClearWeatherDynamics=Yes

OwnWeatherChanges=No

WeatherReadInterval=4

MoveBGLvariables=Yes

TimeForSelect=4

WeatherReadsFast=No

MainMenu=&Modules

SubMenu=&FSUIPC ...

ShowMultilineWindow=No

SuppressSingleline=No

SuppressMultilineFS=No

WindSmoothing=Yes

AutoTaxiWind=No

PropTaxiWind=No

TimeSetMode=Partial

WhiteMessages=No

ThrottleSyncAll=No

GraduatedVisibility=Yes

LowerVisAltitude=0

UpperVisAltitude=25000

UpperVisibility=6000

GenerateCirrus=No

WindShearSharp=No

UpperWindGusts=Yes

ExtendMetarMaxVis=Yes

CorrectVSsign=No

DisconnTrimForAP=Yes

ZeroElevForAPAlt=No

AutoClearWeather=Yes

ExtendTopWind=No

WindSmoothness=5

SmoothPressure=Yes

PressureSmoothness=5

SmoothVisibility=No

VisibilitySmoothness=2

MaxSurfaceWind=0

WindLimitLevel=200

WindDiscardLevel=400

WindAjustAltitude=No

WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000

MinimumVisibility=0

MaximumVisibilityFewClouds=6000

MaximumVisibility=2000

MaximumVisibilityOvercast=2000

MaximumVisibilityRainy=1000

OneCloudLayer=No

ThinClouds=No

ThinThunderClouds=No

CloudThinness=1000

ThunderCloudThinness=10000

CloudTurbulence=No

CloudIcing=No

WindTurbulence=No

SuppressAllGusts=No

ExternalOptionControl=Yes

AutoTuneADF=No

KeepFS98CloudCover=No

ShowPMcontrols=No

MagicBattery=No

RudderSpikeRemoval=Yes

ElevatorSpikeRemoval=Yes

AileronSpikeRemoval=Yes

ReversedElevatorTrim=No

StopAutoFuel=No

TrapUserInterrupt=Yes

NavFreq50KHz=No

ClockSync=Yes

SmoothIAS=Yes

SetVisUpperAlt=No

VisUpperAltLimit=6000

MaxIce=3

MinIce=-1

WindSmoothingDelay=0

WindSmoothAirborneOnly=No

LimitWindVariance=No

VisSmoothingDelay=0

VisSmoothAirborneOnly=No

TrafficControlDirect=Yes

SuppressCloudTurbulence=No

SuppressWindTurbulence=No

SpoilerIncrement=512

ShortAircraftNameOk=No

FixWindows=No

FixControlAccel=No

[JoystickCalibration]

ExclThrottleSet=No

SepRevsJetsOnly=Yes

ApplyHeloTrim=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=0

RudderTrimControl=0

CowlFlaps1Control=0

CowlFlaps2Control=0

CowlFlaps3Control=0

CowlFlaps4Control=0

MaxSteerSpeed=60

Aileron=-16380,-512,512,10000

Elevator=-16380,-512,512,16380

Rudder=-16380,-512,512,16380

SlopeThrottle=-2

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

ElevatorTrim=-16380,-512,512,16380

Throttle=-15083,16383

Flaps=0,16380

Reverser=0,0

Throttle1=-16380,-512,512,16380

Throttle2=-16380,-512,512,16380

Mixture1=0,8192,8192,16380

Mixture2=0,8192,8192,16380

Spoilers=0,16380/16

Reverser1=-16380,16380/8

Reverser2=-16380,16380/8

Reverser3=-16380,16380/8

Reverser4=-16380,16380/8

Throttle3=-16380,-512,512,16380

Throttle4=-16380,-512,512,16380

[buttons]

1=P0,1,K118,8

4=P0,3,K123,8

5=P0,5,K192,8

6=P0,7,K71,8

7=P0,17,K76,8

8=P0,0,K191,8

9=P0,4,K83,8

10=P0,2,K117,8

11=R0,6,K113,8

12=U0,6,K113,8

13=P0,15,K121,8

14=P169,1,K113,8

15=P169,2,K113,8

[Axes]

0=0X,1,F,65763,0,0,0

1=0Y,1,F,65694,0,0,0

2=0Z,4161,D,4,0,0,0

3=0V,518,F,65766,0,0,0

4=2X,3600,D,41,0,0,0

5=2Y,1143,F,65820,0,0,0

[Axes.DHC-2W 16798]

0=0R,1,D,4,0,0,0

1=0U,1,F,65697,0,0,0

[JoystickCalibration.DHC-2W 16798]

ExclThrottleSet=No

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=0

RudderTrimControl=0

CowlFlaps1Control=0

CowlFlaps2Control=0

CowlFlaps3Control=0

CowlFlaps4Control=0

MaxSteerSpeed=60

Aileron=-16380,-512,512,16380

Elevator=-16380,-512,512,16380

Rudder=-16380,-512,512,16380

Throttle=-16380,16380

SlopeThrottle=-6

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

Reverser=-16380,16380

PropPitch=-16380,16380

Mixture=-16380,16380

[Axes.DHC-2W O-16555]

0=0Z,1,F,66292,0,0,0

1=0R,4479,F,65773,0,0,0

[JoystickCalibration.DHC-2W O-16555]

ExclThrottleSet=No

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=0

RudderTrimControl=0

CowlFlaps1Control=0

CowlFlaps2Control=0

CowlFlaps3Control=0

CowlFlaps4Control=0

MaxSteerSpeed=60

Aileron=0,0,0,0

Elevator=0,0,0,0

Rudder=0,0,0,0

SlopeThrottle=-6

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

Reverser=-16380,16380

Throttle=-16380,16380

PropPitch=16256,16256

[buttons.DHC-2W O-16555]

0=P0,1,K83,8

1=P0,0,K190,8

[Axes.Beech 1900D - VC Pacific Airways]

5=2Z,256,F,66423,0,0,0

0=0X,1,F,65763,0,0,0

1=0Y,1,F,65694,0,0,0

2=0Z,4161,D,4,0,0,0

3=0V,518,F,65766,0,0,0

4=2X,1,F,65786,0,0,0

[JoystickCalibration.Beech 1900D - VC Pacific Airways]

ExclThrottleSet=No

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=0

RudderTrimControl=0

CowlFlaps1Control=0

CowlFlaps2Control=0

CowlFlaps3Control=0

CowlFlaps4Control=0

MaxSteerSpeed=60

Aileron=-16380,-512,512,10000

Elevator=-16380,-512,512,16380

Rudder=-16380,-512,512,16380

Throttle=-15083,16383

SlopeThrottle=-2

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

Throttle1=-16380,83,83,16380

Throttle2=-16380,83,83,16380

ElevatorTrim=-16380,-512,512,16380

Flaps=0,0

Reverser=0,0

[Axes.Douglas DC-3 Shavron Cargo]

5=2Z,3034,D,9,0,0,0

6=2R,256,D,14,0,0,0

7=2U,256,D,13,0,0,0

8=2V,4396,D,10,0,0,0

0=0X,1,F,65763,0,0,0

1=0Y,1,F,65694,0,0,0

2=0Z,4161,D,4,0,0,0

3=2X,3600,D,17,0,0,0

4=2Y,256,D,18,0,0,0

[buttons.Boeing 747-400]

0=P169,1,K113,8

[Pete Dowson]

You mentioned "Just delete the bits to do with the TQ6 -- you'll need to check the joystick number to identify the lines".

How do I find out what the joystick # is?

In FSUIPC's options, go to the Axis assignments Tab, and make it recognise one of the axes. The joystick number is shown at the top. (This is all in the documentation, which it might be useful to peruse at some stage).

Below is a copy of the INI file that I backed up.Can you possible identify the Saitek bits?

No, because I cannot reach your machine from here and move the levers whilst FSUIPC is scanning the joysticks. Can I now? :roll:

I know that the various aircraft listed are my attempts at getting the TQ6 configured, so those can go.

Why start messing with Aircraft-Specific settings, confusing yourself, before you even have the basics working?

Just looking at your calibration entries, it seems that you have not actually really CALIBRATED for many, if any, of your axes at all, no matter which joystick they are on. If you aren't going to bother to calibrate in FSUIPC there is no point whatsoever of using FSUIPC for your controls. Look:

[JoystickCalibration]

...

Aileron=-16380,-512,512,10000

Elevator=-16380,-512,512,16380

Rudder=-16380,-512,512,16380

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

ElevatorTrim=-16380,-512,512,16380

Flaps=0,16380

Throttle1=-16380,-512,512,16380

Throttle2=-16380,-512,512,16380

Mixture1=0,8192,8192,16380

Mixture2=0,8192,8192,16380

Spoilers=0,16380/16

Reverser1=-16380,16380/8

Reverser2=-16380,16380/8

Reverser3=-16380,16380/8

Reverser4=-16380,16380/8

Throttle3=-16380,-512,512,16380

Throttle4=-16380,-512,512,16380

All those red values are the defaults, assumed by FSUIPC if you don't do the calibration. I really cannot believe that all of your axes perfectly fit into FSUIPC's ideas of values which "may be close". You need to follow the simple numbered calibration steps for each and every axis! Please do refer to the documentation!

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

What happened was that the TQ6 seamed to work

I've been looking at your Axis assignments in FSUIPC. They do seem very strange. What aircraft are you loading when you have those strange results you mention?

I'm not sure why you are making your axis assignments aircraft-specific. Are you using the axes differently for each aircraft? Normally I wouldn't expect this sort of thing unless you had, for example, helicopter controls for helicopters, Airbus-type joysticks for Airbuses, Yokes for regular GA and other airliners, and so on. THEN you might need the joysticks changed automatically according to the loaded aircraft.

Look (I've annotated these with the specific assignment meanings)

[Axes]

0=0X,1,F,65763,0,0,0 <---- ailerons via FS (newer control used)

1=0Y,1,F,65694,0,0,0 <---- elevator via FS (older generic control used)

2=0Z,4161,D,4,0,0,0 <--- all-engine throttle via FSUIPC

3=0V,518,F,65766,0,0,0 <---- trim via FS

4=2X,3600,D,41,0,0,0 <---- reverser for Engine 1 only via FSUIPC

5=2Y,1143,F,65820,0,0,0 <---- engine 1 throttle via FS

First: TWO separate axes both assigned to throttle? One for Engine 1 only, the other for all engines? What's the logic in that, please?

Second, it is a bit weird to use a mixture of "Direct to FSUIPC calibration" assignments (the 'D' entries above) and normal FS controls ('F'). Not sure why you've done that. It isn't that it won't work, it is just a bit inconsistent.

But the really really BAD thing about all of those assignments is the "Delta" value in each one. Those are the figures marked in red. The default Delta is 256, and there are lots of notes in the documentation saying when you might want to change it -- they are very few occasions you would ever want to! The values you have there are ridiculous, and are sure to mess things up.

So, why are you messing with the Delta in the first place? What are you trying to achieve? I can tell you what you are achieving:

Remember, a Delta of N means "whenever the input changes by N or more, send a message to FS or FSUIPC to recompute the setting and action the control". In other words, ignore petty insignificant changes less than N, as they won't do anything useful, will simply flood the system with useless requests or cause jittery axes which are no good to man nor beast. Performance will suffer and the user will wonder what's going on.

The default of 256 was chosen with care. The total range, if calibrated in Windows, for any axis, is likely to be in the order of 32768 or thereabouts. Most potentiomenters or optical devices used in joysticks have at most about 100 distinguishable positions or steps, and in many cases a lot less -- even good quality slider pots often only reliably give about 40 useful positions. There may be more values arriving than this, but you get several different values for the same apparent slider position, so they aren't usefully distinguishable. By using a default Delta of 256 we are allowing up to 128 distinguishable positions -- a lot more than most inputs can provide. In other words, ample.

So, in 2 of your axes above you are telling FSUIPC to send every change, to waste a lot of time doing nothing.

And in the the others to are doing the reverse. You are telling FSUIPC to send hardly any changes at all. In the worst case (4161 on the throttle) you are saying "this axis is so useless that there are only 32768/4161 = 7 positions which I need you to recognise".

Can you explain WHY on Earth you've made all these changes? You haven't actually bothered to do the important stuff like calibrate your axes, but you've messed around with Delta values to no obvious purpose?

With the other Aircraft Settings, bewilderingly you have a similar mess. With two of them you seem to be pretty bereft of axes altogether:

[Axes.DHC-2W 16798]

0=0R,1,D,4,0,0,0

1=0U,1,F,65697,0,0,0

Both of these axes are set to the Throttle control (the generic all-engine throttle) -- one direct to FSUIPC, one via FS control!

No aileron nor elevator control for this aircraft? Do you only use the keyboard to fly it?

[Axes.DHC-2W O-16555]

0=0Z,1,F,66292,0,0,0

1=0R,4479,F,65773,0,0,0

Both via FS, one for the modern "AXIS mixture" control, and the other for the older generic mixture control. Again, two axes for the same FS action, obviously causing conflict. And again, this aircraft needs no aileron, elevator or throttle?

In conclusion, I advise you to delete the whole shebang. Concentrate on using FS assignments until you can get you head around the FSUIPC facilities a bit more. Please read the documentation supplied and try to follow its advice! I can help by answering specific questions, but please don't go off half-cocked making such weird and wonderful settings and wondering why things don't work. The facilities provided by FSUIPC are powerful, but with power comes some responsibility else you make a powerful mess!

Pete

[James Stephen]

You are right, I think I need to start over, with the documentation in hand.

I guess I got into trouble by thinking that I could spend 400 bucks on a throttle that came with a configuration program to set up a simple profile and have it work without such problems. I mean. look, it's 2008, FS9 has been out for many years, why is it so hard to make get a few axes and buttons to work out of the box? I guess I'm wining :?

So when that didnt work, I started to mess with your module and created more problems :oops:

The reason I had different planes is that there are different configs between a prop or jet or single engine or multi engine plane and I was setting them up for specific planes that I fly in virtual airlines. Guess I screwed that up also.

Last night I reset the defaults in your module, so maybe thats why they look like that way in the INI?

Any case I'll start over.

And if I can not get it to work in FS withthe default aircraft and the goflight config software I'll just send it back. Like you said, thats where I need to start.

Thanks for your help, I don't want to waste your time with silly questions.

[Pete Dowson]

I guess I got into trouble by thinking that I could spend 400 bucks on a throttle that came with a configuration program to set up a simple profile and have it work without such problems.

You are right. It should be easy. Sorry, I don't know what they've done wrong, I don't have any ordinary gear. All my stuff is PFC (www.flypfc.com) -- I do the driver for it! ;-)

The reason I had different planes is that there are different configs between a prop or jet or single engine or multi engine plane and I was setting them up for specific planes that I fly in virtual airlines. Guess I screwed that up also.

Well, there are certainly some odd sets of assignments, and in two aircraft no assignments at all for the main flight controls. Weird.

You might want 3 or 4 throttles sometimes, but in general two throttles, two mixture controls and two prop pitch controls will cover almost all your aircraft. Maybe you want a lever for spoilers and maybe reverser (though it's usually easier to have the reverser operated by the throttle lever being pulled back more), but these are more esoteric things, to look at when everything else is working well. And then the first thing to do is make sure all the regular axes are still set correctly. Sometimes it is easier to copy the Axes section to one for the aircraft (i.e by editing the INI file), and then modify that on-line. Also you should, by then, checkout the "ShortAircraftNameOk" parameter -- if you update to the latest FSUIPC version (3.82 for FS9, or 4.30 for FSX) you'll find an article about that, contributed by a user, at the back of the User Guide.

Last night I reset the defaults in your module, so maybe thats why they look like that way in the INI?

Reset the defaults in the on-line options? That only resets the stuff in the Weather and Miscellaneous tabs. It doesn't touch anything to do with axes or calibrations. All those settings were yours -- the saved 'calibrations' showed you never calibrated, and the axis assignments were the complete mess I described. And you couldn't have deleted the INI file to "reset to defaults", otherwise there'd be no Axes sections at all.

Regards

Pete

[James Stephen]

Thanks again,

I'll go over the documentaion before I post anymore questions

My next big purchase will probably be a PFC yoke - look out! :lol:

James