FSUIPC 4.30 gives #2 Engine Throttle Error in FSX

[JamesChams]

Dear Mr. Pete Dowson,

I use a TM HOTAS Cougar (USB) in Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit with FSX Acceleration with the latest drivers. I updated the FSUIPC module yesterday from v4.28 to v4.30 and the module began giving me problems in FSX with the #2 engine of all my FSX aircraft when using this throttle. It caused a decline in the N1/RPM of what ever aircraft (Jet/Prop) in the #2 Engine when a full throttle setting is applied. The #1 Engine would ofcourse go to max NI/RPM. I've tried re-calabrating and adjusting the settings in Windows Game Controller, FSX's Joystick settings, and FSUIPC's Joystick Calibration but with no success. So, I reverted back to version v4.28 to try and resolve this but I believed it corrupted the original setup.

So, I reinstalled v4.30 and found out it was an issue with FSX dealing with my many Controllers.

I have the following ...

TM HOTAS Cougar USB (for Fighter/Helicopter)

CHProducts FlightSim Yoke USB and CH Throttle Quadrant USB (for Civilian/Comercial Prop/Jet aircraft)

CH Pro Pedals USB (For All Aircraft)

So, when I try to use one set of controls with an aircraft, the other set conflicts. Thus, I have to disable their axis' in FSX Joystick Settings menu. I used the Axis controller settings to further tweak the HOTAS to function more accurately to the way a fight has Mil and AB stages and that seems to work properly now. However, I would like to be able to use one set of controlls with a specific aircraft and another with another aircraft without having to disable one or the other. Can this be done using FSUIPC's Aircraft Specific feature?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Pete Dowson]

[quote name="JamesChams"

I use a TM HOTAS Cougar (USB) in Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit with FSX Acceleration with the latest drivers. I updated the FSUIPC module yesterday from v4.28 to v4.30 and the module began giving me problems in FSX with the #2 engine of all my FSX aircraft when using this throttle. It caused a decline in the N1/RPM of what ever aircraft (Jet/Prop) in the #2 Engine when a full throttle setting is applied. The #1 Engine would ofcourse go to max NI/RPM. I've tried re-calabrating and adjusting the settings in Windows Game Controller' date=' FSX's Joystick settings, and FSUIPC's Joystick Calibration but with no success. So, I reverted back to version v4.28 to try and resolve this but I believed it corrupted the original setup.[/quote]

"Corrupted"? FSUIPC will only ever save whatever changes you make. It doesn't make changes by itself. I think you must be misinterpreting something there.

So, I reinstalled v4.30 and found out it was an issue with FSX dealing with my many Controllers.

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean, there.

I have the following ...

TM HOTAS Cougar USB (for Fighter/Helicopter)

CHProducts FlightSim Yoke USB and CH Throttle Quadrant USB (for Civilian/Comercial Prop/Jet aircraft)

CH Pro Pedals USB (For All Aircraft)

So, when I try to use one set of controls with an aircraft, the other set conflicts.

If they are all simultaneously assigned and active, to the same sets of controls, then yes, of course they will conflict with each other. This is why I added aircaft-specific axis assignment facilities to FSUIPC.

However, I would like to be able to use one set of controlls with a specific aircraft and another with another aircraft without having to disable one or the other. Can this be done using FSUIPC's Aircraft Specific feature?

Yes, of course, if you use FSUIPC for all assignments and disable joysticks in FS. That was the main reason axis assignments were provided in FSUIPC.

Regards

Pete

[JamesChams]

[quote name="JamesChams"

So' date=' I reinstalled v4.30 and found out it was an issue with FSX dealing with my many Controllers.[/quote]

Mr. Pete Dowson: Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean, there.

This was an total uninstall of FSUIPC to determine if the problem was with FSX alone and/or FSUIPC. The Problem is that FSX cannot treat each joystick axis from one controller as independant for each aircraft; thus, eg. the Y-Axis of two controllers will flight eachother if they are used to control the same function as in the elevators. (I know you know this already but I'm stating it here so that you are made aware of my understanding in this matter and where I intend to go in my requests/problems).

I have the following ...

TM HOTAS Cougar USB (for Fighter/Helicopter)

CHProducts FlightSim Yoke USB and CH Throttle Quadrant USB (for Civilian/Comercial Prop/Jet aircraft)

CH Pro Pedals USB (For All Aircraft)

So, when I try to use one set of controls with an aircraft, the other set conflicts.

Mr. Pete Dowson: If they are all simultaneously assigned and active, to the same sets of controls, then yes, of course they will conflict with each other. This is why I added aircaft-specific axis assignment facilities to FSUIPC.

Yes, I understand; but, I cannot disable them in FS' game controller menu and have them function as Axis' in FS even though I programmed them in FSUIPC. They are "aircraft specific" but NOT aircraft independant and WON'T work if I disable the Axis' in FS. How do I resolve that - its independance? (eg. I want to use the CH Yoke for the CaptainSim 757 and the TM HOTAS Cougar for the CaptainSim F/A-18D and have them both use the X & Y-axis' on each device but NOT have FS try to use them on eachother or one set of Axis' for both aircraft).

However, I would like to be able to use one set of controlls with a specific aircraft and another with another aircraft without having to disable one or the other. Can this be done using FSUIPC's Aircraft Specific feature?

Mr. Pete Dowson: Yes, of course, if you use FSUIPC for all assignments and disable joysticks in FS. That was the main reason axis assignments were provided in FSUIPC.

How do I get FS to read the joysticks and use them in the game and still disable them in FS' Joystick Menu?

Thank you very much for your time.

[Pete Dowson]

Yes, I understand; but, I cannot disable them in FS' game controller menu and have them function as Axis' in FS even though I programmed them in FSUIPC.

Why not? You can assign all the axes and buttons in FSUIPC and disable all joysticks in FS. You most certainly should never have the same things assigned in both FS and in FSUIPC!

They are "aircraft specific" but NOT aircraft independant and WON'T work if I disable the Axis' in FS. How do I resolve that - its independance? (eg. I want to use the CH Yoke for the CaptainSim 757 and the TM HOTAS Cougar for the CaptainSim F/A-18D and have them both use the X & Y-axis' on each device but NOT have FS try to use them on eachother or one set of Axis' for both aircraft).

As I said, assign them in FSUIPC (not in FS) and make them aircraft-specific. This is why axis assignments were added to FSUIPC -- not to duplicate FS but to replace its less-capable assignment system.

How do I get FS to read the joysticks and use them in the game and still disable them in FS' Joystick Menu?

You don't. You get FSUIPC to do it instead. That's the whole point. You seem to be wearing blinkers here -- please read the words: you can assign axes (and buttons) in FSUIPC instead of in FS!

Pete

[JamesChams]

Yes, I understand; but, I cannot disable them in FS' game controller menu and have them function as Axis' in FS even though I programmed them in FSUIPC.

Why not? You can assign all the axes and buttons in FSUIPC and disable all joysticks in FS. You most certainly should never have the same things assigned in both FS and in FSUIPC!

They are "aircraft specific" but NOT aircraft independant and WON'T work if I disable the Axis' in FS. How do I resolve that - its independance? (eg. I want to use the CH Yoke for the CaptainSim 757 and the TM HOTAS Cougar for the CaptainSim F/A-18D and have them both use the X & Y-axis' on each device but NOT have FS try to use them on eachother or one set of Axis' for both aircraft).

As I said, assign them in FSUIPC (not in FS) and make them aircraft-specific. This is why axis assignments were added to FSUIPC -- not to duplicate FS but to replace its less-capable assignment system.

How do I get FS to read the joysticks and use them in the game and still disable them in FS' Joystick Menu?

You don't. You get FSUIPC to do it instead. That's the whole point. You seem to be wearing blinkers here -- please read the words: you can assign axes (and buttons) in FSUIPC instead of in FS!

Pete

Mr. Pete Dawson,

Thank you for hammering the point across to me... But, I've read the .pdf doc.'s and tried using FSUIPC assignments only with all joystick axis assignments in FS and the axis don't seem to work if it is removed in FS' joystick menu. So, what I've had to do was assign them to both and tweak it further in FSUIPC. What am I doing wrong? How can I resolve this to do it the way you are suggesting? Based on the Documentation, It doesn't seem to work for me; not sure why; thus I sought you out - the "GURU" of FSUIPC. Everything else in FSUIPC works great and I love it.

Please be patient and more responsive to proceedures of setup - I cannot decern that from the documentation provided. I think I need a step by step proceedure to resolve this.

Thank you.

[Pete Dowson]

But, I've read the .pdf doc.'s and tried using FSUIPC assignments only with all joystick axis assignments in FS and the axis don't seem to work if it is removed in FS' joystick menu.

You didn't say that. Evidently you aren't actually assigning them in FSUIPC then.

Are you assigning them to FS controls or using the "Direct to FSUIPC calibration" option? If you use the latter then you MUST calibrate in FSUIPC as well. In the former case that is optional.

So, what I've had to do was assign them to both and tweak it further in FSUIPC.

Never ever assign things in two places. You are asking for trouble.

What am I doing wrong?

No idea, sorry. You'll have to tell me exactly what you are doing, step by step. I don't know anyone else who can't assign axes in FSUIPC. It is a much used facility, and documented with pictures as well!

Please be patient and more responsive to proceedures of setup - I cannot decern that from the documentation provided. I think I need a step by step proceedure to resolve this.

Sorry, but I produce the best documentation I know how. If I could do better don't you think I would have, rather than have to repeat something different here?

Please tell me what you are doing. I really cannot imagine how you could do it wrongly. It is very very hard to do it wrongly!

Pete

[JamesChams]

Mr. Dowson,

I know that this must be frustrating for you but, let me begin again by telling you that I really enjoy using FSUIPC and have been since FS2002 when it was freeware for most customers. I, in no way, intended to degrade your documentation or methodoligy by any statements that were made here. If you were in any way offended, please except my sincere apologies. Perhaps I wasn't communicating to you in a way that would help you assist me. I will now attempt to resolve this be giving you the details of what I've done.

Now, to answer the questions from your response, I have added pictures to better communicate to you as to what I'm doing and what is wrong:-

These are the USB device that are installed on my system. I have another that I also want to install later; but the problem exists with these and only these will be addressed here for simultanious use in FSX / FSUIPC v4.30.

I want to configure them in the following ways:-

TM HOTAS Cougar USB (for Fighter/Helicopter)

CHProducts FlightSim Yoke USB & CH Throttle Quadrant USB (for Civilian/Comercial Prop/Jet aircraft)

CH Pro Pedals USB (For All Aircraft)

I understand that FS and FSUIPC see them as Aircraft independant or Universal, but the above stated is the goal for me here with this document.

1. The problem

For this example I will use only 1 axis to troubleshoot; but, this is an issue that is for almost ever axis. The Throttle of the HOTAS Cougar is what is used for this example. But first a quick video of the problem.

I couldn't YouTube this file for some reason so, you will have to download it: Here (Filesize 58.7MB)

In this DEMO I go from an IDLE to MAX on the TQS but the throttle does "its own thing."

The Throttle AXIS' for the CH Yoke & Throttle Quadrant, have been disabled for this example and the Thrustmaster TQS was also disabled in FS' Joystick menu but calibrated to be used in FSUIPC with the AXIS set for use in FS. I used both options to test this; The "Send direct to FSUIPC Calibration" and the "Send to FS as normal axis." Both worked and didn't - There were spikes and throttle changes that I didn't initiate as the video shows.

In this pic I calibrated the TQS for its full range.

I then assigned multi options to test and see which one worked and for more Throttle positional accuracy. I had 8 Stages for the "Send direct to FSUIPC" method from IDLE Cutoff to 10%, then onto Full MIL Thrust (Throttle FULL), Afterburner Toggle, AB 1 - AB4.

For the "Send to FS as an AXIS" I set it up for each throttle 1-4 as a combination. I also tested the "Aircraft specific option" to see if this would conflict with other axis' already configured in FS.

And ofcourse, I removed the TQS Z-Axis as being the throttle in the FS Joystick Menu. I also deleted all other Joystick axis' in FS' Joystick Menu to make sure that nothing was conflicting or causing spikes. However, after all of this I am not sure how to proceed. :shock:

Please Advise!

Thank you for you time.

[Pete Dowson]

have added pictures to better communicate to you as to what I'm doing and what is wrong

The INI file [Axes...] and [Joystick...] sections would have been ar more informative. Pictures don't really help, and I'm certainly not interested in watching YouTube videos. Sorry.

You took your Throttle as the first example. You say:

The Throttle AXIS' for the CH Yoke & Throttle Quadrant, have been disabled for this example and the Thrustmaster TQS was also disabled in FS' Joystick menu but calibrated to be used in FSUIPC with the AXIS set for use in FS. I used both options to test this; The "Send direct to FSUIPC Calibration" and the "Send to FS as normal axis." Both worked and didn't - There were spikes and throttle changes that I didn't initiate

but in the pictures immediately following you show that you calibrated the "Throttle", yet assigned the axis to Throttles 1, 2, 3 and 4 independently. There are 5 (FIVE) throttle controls in FS -- one generic throttle which controls all engines (just called "throttle"), and separate ones for those with separate levers. This isn't anything to do with FSUIPC, it is how FS has always been! The same 5 throttle controls are also listed in FS's assignments list, so there's really no excuse just because you are using FSUIPC!

You have assigned, inexplicably, your single throttle to all 4 separate throttles, but then calibrated the one you've not assigned to! I've no idea how you've managed to do the latter as the single throttle won't respond to the individual controls -- it does rather imply that you couldn't have disabled it in FS after all!

If you look in FSUIPC options, further in the pages for calibration (I think, from memory, it's oage 3), you'd find the 4 throttle calibration page which you would use instead when assigning 4 separate throttles!

But why, with a single throttle, are you assigning to multiple throttles in the first place? Just assign it to the Throttle, not Throttle 1, 2,3 or 4! It's called 2Axs Throttle Set" if you assign it to FS, but just 2Throttle" if you assign it direct to FSUIPC calibration.

Really, I cannot help more until you provide proper information, technical information which is definitive, not pictures and videos. If you show me the sections of the INI file, I can tell you what sort of mess you've made. But it looks as if, despite Microsoft's efforts at documentation and making things easy, and mine in FSUIPC, you manage to misunderstand what Microsoft are doing and therefore what FSUIPC can do and does. I hope it may become clearer now, but if not then maybe you need to take it slower and not be so ambitious?

I think the best thing for you to do at this time is delete your FSUIPC INI file and start all over again. If you want to use FSUIPC for axes and buttons entirely instead of FS assignments, don't disable individual axes and buttons in FS, disable the entire range of controls -- I'm sure there's a separate checkbox for that. Do it for every one. Then you'll at least know that FS own assignments cannot be interfering. Your description of the problems are exactly describing what would happen with multiple assignments to the same simulation control.

Take each axis, one at a time, and THINK what you are going to do with it. Don't barge in assigning left right and centre without thinking, as it appears here. Look at the list. For throttles, can you not see there's a difference between "Throttle" and "Throttle 1, 2, 3 and 4"? Do you not wonder why? Take a moment to think about it. What do folks with one throttle lever use? How does the keystroke for throttle manage to change it for all 4 engines? Because there's a generic all-engine throttle, that's why! If you use that, you calibrate that. If you use separate throttles, you calibrate those -- they are separate and on a separate page in FSUIPC's options.

Regards

Pete

[JamesChams]

The INI file [Axes...] and [Joystick...] sections would have been ar more informative. Pictures don't really help, and I'm certainly not interested in watching YouTube videos. Sorry.

You have assigned, inexplicably, your single throttle to all 4 separate throttles, but then calibrated the one you've not assigned to! I've no idea how you've managed to do the latter...

... I can tell you what sort of mess you've made. But it looks as if, despite Microsoft's efforts at documentation and making things easy, and mine in FSUIPC, you manage to misunderstand what Microsoft are doing and therefore what FSUIPC can do and does. I hope it may become clearer now, but if not then maybe you need to take it slower and not be so ambitious?

...Take each axis, one at a time, and THINK what you are going to do with it. Don't barge in assigning left right and centre without thinking, as it appears here.

Look at the list. For throttles, can you not see there's a difference between "Throttle" and "Throttle 1, 2, 3 and 4"? Do you not wonder why? Take a moment to think about it. What do folks with one throttle lever use? How does the keystroke for throttle manage to change it for all 4 engines? Because there's a generic all-engine throttle, that's why! If you use that, you calibrate that. If you use separate throttles, you calibrate those -- they are separate and on a separate page in FSUIPC's options.

Mr. Dowson,

What seems obvious to you in the FSUIPC interface is not always as clear to someone starting out; I'm sure you would agree that you've spent a decade or so looking at the interface and I haven't. Furthermore, respectfully, your documented instructions assume a lot and are NOT precise when it comes to proceedures or step by step setup instructions. But rather, an over-all description of features and capabilities. This can get confusing to any reader; especially if the documentation has minor spelling mistakes and the grammer isn't correct; and, Respectfully, many here have had that problem. Thus, I've spend a lot of time "thinking" about "how to" implement the features and not knowing the limitations or constraints of the tools, I blundered into things.

What I wasn't aware of from the beginning is that the FSUIPC joystick features were a "or" and not an "and" when accompanied with FS' own joystick settings. And, perhaps I assumed with my limited understanding at the time, that if all were setup in both FS and FSUIPC that they would further tweak existing FS Joystick settings; in some cases it did and not in others. With button assignments that was not the case and so I redundantly assigned them in both giving them a psuedo-macro feature which works quite nicely for me. Moreover, the feature of the two set of axis' to do the same control cannot be used by FSUIPC, itself, simultaniously without the "Aircraft Specific" feature turned on was not at all made clear in the documentation for multi-axis setup. And that a third required either FS' joystick settings or the "Send Direct to FSUIPC Calibration" menu in FSUIPC. - Thus the problem; I was missing some key concepts that weren't documentated in the provided documentation.

Next, regarding your questions about the multi-throttle assignment page, It was for another controller. But, was pictured here for your viewing only to see that I was firmiliar with its setup, if not correctly. Furthermore, there were AXIS mapping features to my controls that needing resetting; which neither you or I could have known at the time; as a result of an upgrade to the CH Manager/TM HOTAS Calibration utilities.

All in all, I'm sorry I wasted my time and yours with pictures and videos. I did learn a lot about your tools capabilities and limitations but found all my answers and resolved them with some key features provided by Mr. John Cook post, FSUIPC Guide for CH Users,(HERE) which clearly indicated key issues to address, resolve, and (more importantly) proceedures - the "HOW TO" which is what I was seeking from you and was NOT clearly evident in your "FSUIPC *.pdf" documentation.

I know that Tech. support is not always easy for programmers; I was one too in my early 20's; but might I suggest an addition of a help features and descriptive informational bubbles as an aid to the interface of future FSUIPC interface. Remember, your interface must be transparent to any user and thus easy to understand. There is much confusion between features from the "Send to FS as Axis" to "Send Direct to FSUIPC Calibration" that doesn't make a lot of sense from your documentation until, after you've played around with it a little.

Finally, I know that we didn't get off on the right foot and I will forgive any rudeness in the tone and manner of your replies and hope you get to feeling better if ever we have to do this a next time.

Thank you, anyway, for your help.

[Pete Dowson]

What I wasn't aware of from the beginning is that the FSUIPC joystick features were a "or" and not an "and" when accompanied with FS' own joystick settings.

But they are not. Only the axis assignments are -- it should surely be obvious that assigning an axis for the same function in two places would likely cause conflicts. The same with buttons. If you assign a button in FS and the same button in FSUIPC, then that button will do two different things. Maybe that's what you want, but you obviously need to think about that. The same goes for axes. Why isn't that obvious even to a newcomer?

Not only should this be rather obvious, but it is explicitly stated in one of the early paragraphs in the User Guide section on Axis Assignment, thus:

IMPORTANT: Before making any assignments in FSUIPC4, you should be sure that the same axes are not being assigned in FS itself.

Please do review this and reassess your opinion of my "shoddy" work! I really don't like unjustified accusations, simply because you haven't read even the introductory warnings and statements but plunged in wrecklessly.

The FSUIPC joystick calibration features, however, are most certainly usable with assignments made anywhere. So your statement " the FSUIPC joystick features were a "or" and not an "and" when accompanied with FS' own joystick settings." is most certainly not true.

Moreover, the feature of the two set of axis' to do the same control cannot be used by FSUIPC, itself, simultaniously without the "Aircraft Specific" feature turned on was not at all made clear in the documentation for multi-axis setup.

That is also not true. I have no idea how you are getting that information. Provided axes are assigned in FSUIPC and are quiescent (i.e. not moved) then two sets can be simultaneously assigned to the same functions without the quiescent ones interfering. This is not with one set assigned in FS and the other in FSUIPC, because the values would then certainly not operate harmoniously. But multiple sets are often assigned in FSUIPC, even for use in the same aircraft -- one set for Pilot and the other for CoPilot. FSUIPC now even arbitrates between them, for maximum deflection, if they are assigned "direct to FSUIPC calibration" (this is a very recently added and documented feature).

And that a third required either FS' joystick settings or the "Send Direct to FSUIPC Calibration" menu in FSUIPC. - Thus the problem; I was missing some key concepts that weren't documentated in the provided documentation.

I really don't know what you mean by the part saying "a third required ...FSUIPC", but you are again wrong about the documentation. Every feature of FSUIPC is documented. You are apparently just choosing to ignore parts to make your points, it seems, though I hope not deliberately?

Your interface must be transparent to any user and thus easy to understand. There is much confusion between features from the "Send to FS as Axis" to "Send Direct to FSUIPC Calibration" that doesn't make a lot of sense from your documentation until, after you've played around with it a little.

Well, I'm sorry, but you are quite a rare specimen in this regard. I evidently cannot cater for all, and I most certainly cannot cater for those who choose to read some parts and ignore others. And regarding the differences between the two assignment methods, I feel it is explained quite clearly -- please review the several paragraphs explaining this. I think you must have skipped over those too!

Finally, I know that we didn't get off on the right foot and I will forgive any rudeness in the tone and manner of your replies and hope you get to feeling better if ever we have to do this a next time.

I feel I am quite justified in using harsher tones when wrongly accused by someone. I'm sorry you feel that is also "rude". It is never my attention to be rude, but I do feel that I am entitled to tell people off when they are in the wrong!

Regards

Pete

[laudey1]

I would like to thank you both for this discussion.

Pete, I use your FSUIPC since yhe first version, and I am now on the latest 4.40 registered.

Vista32, FSX acceleration in DX10, Track-IR and LevelD B767-300 as main Plane.

I have a Cougar too with Joystick and Throttle TQS, and I bought recently the CH pro rudder USB (mine was a non USB since 10 years). And I began to have a lot of problems with my Throttle which had erratic movements in the FSX, which I never saw before. And reading your post, I discover that I have never un-assign the Throttle Axis in FS. And it worked ok before, because the CH pro was plugged in the Cougar. As there is no USB in the COUGAR to plug the CH Pro USB, I plugged on the PC, and then I began with the axis problems...

Now everything is OK, and I have:

Proportionnal Reversers on the Throttle when pulling it back to zero (thanks to FSUIPC)

Differential braking on the CH Pro pedals

Proportionnal Trim on the ANT on the TQS (Thanks to FSUIPC)

Proportionnal Spoilers on The RANGE knob (thanks to FSUIPC)

Programmed offsets to make the Cougar put the Transponder on Charlie in IVAp (thanks to ...)

I never succeeded to program the COUGAR to make it work from the Foxy software before !! (days trying to!!)

Thank you for your program once more !! I am Happy

[Pete Dowson]

Thank you for your program once more !! I am Happy

And thank you for some rare positive feedback! Have a nice weekend!

Regards

Pete