Joystick & pedals swapping around

[gordyc]

Hello Pete

I'm using FS9.1 on Win XPsp3 with a registered copy of FSUIPC v3.817. I have CH flightsim yoke, throttle quad and pedals, I do not use CM. FS is set up to recognise the axes in a standard way tho I have FSUIPC set to bypass this and the joystick disabled in FS options. WinXP lists the joysticks top to bottom: pedals, quad, yoke.

My problem is that occasionally, and for no discernable reason, FSUIPC swaps the pedal axes controls for the yoke axes controls - yoke roll becomes one brake, yoke pitch becomes the other brake, yoke throttle becomes rudder, right pedal prake becomes elevator, left pedal brake becomes aileron & none of the yoke switches work with the exception of the hat which goes to full up on release. Nothing appears to change in the ini file (I have a selection of ini files in a separate folder & drop one into the modules folder as I require it.) WinXP doesn't change how the sticks are listed & if the ini file is deleted from the modules folder, fs restarted & joystick re-enabled in options then all is as it should be, ie FS has the joysticks correctly configured. Dropping an ini file back in brings the problem back. The only cure with FSUIPC is to reconfigure, which quite frankly is a complete pain when I have a big set of inis for various add-on types.

Hope this is clear enough & that maybe you can shed some light.

Thanks

GordyC

[Pete Dowson]

My problem is that occasionally, and for no discernable reason, FSUIPC swaps the pedal axes controls for the yoke axes controls - yoke roll becomes one brake, yoke pitch becomes the other brake, yoke throttle becomes rudder, right pedal prake becomes elevator, left pedal brake becomes aileron & none of the yoke switches work with the exception of the hat which goes to full up on release. Nothing appears to change in the ini file (I have a selection of ini files in a separate folder & drop one into the modules folder as I require it.)

ErI really don't know any way FSUIPC could possibly do this, but please clarify a few things for me:

1. Method of assignment. Are you assigning axes in FS, or in FSUIPC? If in FSUIPC, are you using "direct to FSUIPC calibration" or the default FS axis controls?

2. Are you saying this happens whilst you are actually flying, or when loading new aircraft/flights, or only on different sessions of FS? Or on different boots of XP?

WinXP doesn't change how the sticks are listed & if the ini file is deleted from the modules folder, fs restarted & joystick re-enabled in options

Ah, that's suspicious. "joystick re-enabled in options" sounds like FS is not remembering the assignments, and you are assigning in FS. FS should certainly not have to have its joystck option re-enabled each time.

So, are you really sure FSUIPC is doing anything at all here, that it isn't FS not correctly recording the joysticks on each session?

Dropping an ini file back in brings the problem back. The only cure with FSUIPC is to reconfigure, which quite frankly is a complete pain when I have a big set of inis for various add-on types.

So, it most certainly sounds like you have so INI file set up wrongly. That has to be the only possibly answer.

But before we continue, could you at least move onto a supported version of FSUIPC, please? 3.82 was released way back in July, and there's an interim release called 3.829 available above.

Regards

Pete

[gordyc]

Pete

I've been using FSUIPC for a long time & have taken time to read your docs supplied with it, all functions are fine for long periods then this problem occurs occasionally, usually when FS is started though it has happened when loading flight videos and when switching views during flight.

My normal method of setting up (after one of these 'events') is:

1 Make sure FS can 'see' my three joysticks in Options- Controls- Assignments.

2. Disable the joysticks in FS via Options (as recommended)

3. Open FSUIPC and assign axes, selecting direct FSUIPC calibration

4. Calibrate axes & assign buttons etc to create an ini for each 'type' of addon, ie. twin jet, 4-jet, twin prop, single prop, etc (this technique stems from the time that FSUIPC calibrations were tied to individual liveries, I know you've moved that on but I found this an acceptable method of creating generic FSUIPC configs & it worked very well)

Before subsequent sessions with FS are started, I select the pre-saved ini I intend to use, dependent on addon flown, and place this in the modules folder acknowledging the overwrite. I'm fairly pc literate & confident handling files, particularly within the FS architecture, so I don't think I'm corrupting the inis.

After FS has loaded and flight selecting I take a glance at options to ensure FS still has joysticks disabled,l do a 'control check' to ensure all is as it should be, then fly, normally with no problem till this random event.

My comment regarding re-enabling the joystick was referring to the fact that AFTER this occurs, I'm attempting to trouble-shoot the problem to see if FS has re-assigned the axes to different controls as well. The point being that it does not, & removing the ini file from modules stops FSUIPC from doing it too, the 'new' ini that's created can be modified as normal through FSUIPC options and settings.

I stress, it all works perfectly well untill this happens, but it's a catastrophe in FS terms because all my ini files are useless again.

One thought I have is that WinXP is changing the joystick numbers for some reason, you've said before that FSUIPC just takes what it's presented with by the OS, though this has been a long term issue for me across three separate computers, plus, if it was simply that why doesn't FS 'see' the sticks in the wrong order too after it happens? (Reiterating: FS controls are normal if sticks are re-enabled during troubleshooting efforts within the same session of this event occurring - after resetting axes in FSUIPC back to 'Send to FS as normal axis')

I downloaded the current version from your page yesterday 01/10/08, specifically to check I was in the support bracket, so I'm not sure why I'm outdated today. I'll get the newer version installed though.

Thanks for taking time with this.

GordyC

[Pete Dowson]

... this problem occurs occasionally, usually when FS is started though it has happened when loading flight videos and when switching views during flight.

But merely switching views or running videos is not touching FSUIPC nor does it even know you are doing this. It isn't looking at INI files either until and unless you go into the Options menu. The ONLY time it reads the INI files is when it loads, when you change aircraft (whether directly or by loading a flight with a different aircraft), and when you explicitly ask it to via the Reload buttons in the Options.

In order to do what you say, either the FSUIPC in-memory tables controlling the axis assignments must be getting corrupted -- but evidentally in a most peculiar way if this involves swapping -- or somehow Windows is rescanning all the hardware and re-assigning joysticks at random. I think Windows only assigns the joystick numbers on initial boot, or when you unplug and re-plug devices.

Maybe that's it? Are you unplugging and re-plugging devices whilst FS is running?

Even so, if you use the same USB or Game Port sockets each time, I'm pretty sure it allocates the same numbers, though maybe sometimes it doesn't. that's an area i know little about I'm afraid.

One thought I have is that WinXP is changing the joystick numbers for some reason

Yes, as above. Not whilst they are connected and being used though.

... if it was simply that why doesn't FS 'see' the sticks in the wrong order too after it happens?

FS uses DirectInput and its assignments are based on joystick naming, manufacturer and so on, not the joystick ID which is needed in the simpler interface I use.

Even then I believe FS does get mixed up if you have two or more generic unnamed joysticks, or identical ones but used for different purposes.

I downloaded the current version from your page yesterday 01/10/08

What page? You mean here, in the Announcements? Or do you mean Enrico Schiratti's "Dowson" page? That has contained 3.82 now since mid-July. If you are getting an old version you need to refresh your IE cache. There are notes about this on that page. If that doesn't work, it's the cache on your ISP and you should complain.

3.817, the version you said you were using, would only have been available here.

The current version now, here, is 3.829.

Regards

Pete

[gordyc]

Pete

Yes, I downloaded from Enrico Schiratti's page, but I've got the latest dll from here now.

No, not plugging or unplugging anything during a FS session. The last occurrence was loading a video. The a/c (default 737) was in 2D panel view, I went to options, selected the video (a previously saved default 737 flight) when it loaded it went into 2D panel view then straight away to external spot view, directly above the a/c, & all stick button responses had changed, ie couldn't change views from the normal yoke buttons only from the keyboard, the hat button was giving a permanent up view command, hence the top down view. Stopped the vid & when the flight restarted the yoke/pedal axes had changed too as previously described.

I understand what you're saying ref the differences between FSUIPC interface requirements & DirectInput. I think it's WinXP changing the order for whatever reason whilst the devices are connected, because I've just spent some time changing the number assignments in the ini (under [Axes]) and it all works properly again, obviously the buttons are still wrong as I haven't changed them yet. I don't run any non-FS related programs on my 'flying' pc, tho it is dual boot with a Vista 64 install on the other bootable drive for FSX, so there aren't really any background programs running other than AVG, & it is also on a network.

I guess I'll just have to continue with re-configuring each time it happens. It's less than ideal but I much prefer using FSUIPC to interface my sticks to FS so I'll run with it.

Thank you for the great support anyway.

GordyC

[Pete Dowson]

I think it's WinXP changing the order for whatever reason whilst the devices are connected

That is really very very strange. I've not heard of that before.

Could you possibly be having some result of power management on the USB ports? make sure all power management options for USB are turned off. Are, perhaps, your devices connected to an external powered hub instead of direct to the motherboard facilities? If so, could it be something in that?

I really do think the device must look disconnected to Windows before it can change its ID. It just makes no sense whatsoever otherwise. If devices are "asleep" and get powered down, even if still connected, that might count as a fresh connection when re-awoken.

But, as I've said, I've never known the IDs to change (at least with direct-connected USB sockets) except by changing the physical connections themselves. External hubs may be different.

You can check IDs using the joyview program I attach now. It uses the same Windows interface as FSUIPC.

Regards

Pete

joyview.zip

[gordyc]

Thanks Pete

USB power management isn't enabled.

Joyview, compared with the ini, confirms the numbers have changed. I've now adjusted the ini to match accordingly & all axes & buttons, are back operating satisfactorily. I've given it a bit more thought & my 'flying' pc is connected via wideFS to a 2nd pc running ActiveSky, FSCommander plus a variety of other minor utilities, one of which is easyFBW (an autotrim prog). Now, I've not used it for a while but I wonder if it's done something in the past to cause WinXP to occasionally hiccup where the joysticks are concerned.

Either way, I'm happy that it's not FSUIPC causing the issue now & with a work-around (a saved ini setup for each joystick numbered differently) it'll cause less hassle if/when it happens in future.

Thanks again.

GordyC