PFC avionics stack problem

[remind]

Hi,

I doubt this is a software issue Peter, but I will post and see.

I recently got a new PC without any onbaord serial comm port, so I tried a USB adaptor one and also a PCI card one.

Now my Cirrus II console by PFC works fine, except for the seperate Avionics stack which is coonected by a power cable from console and a 15pin cable.

At first I thought issue was the usb serial or PCI card to serial and I connect it back up to slightly older PC with a onboard serial comm and still get same problem.

Problem is, not LED lights are showing on Comm one

LEDS for Comm 2 and Nav 1 and 2, ADF and DME are showing, but I cannot change them with the knobs on the stack.

When FSX first loads a flight it does the check and doesn't find the avionics stack, I must admit it I have moticed over last few months on older system that I would get this when PFC check runs for the Stack. >>> Avionics

And also I would have to press the on button on the stack for comm 1, sometimes for it's LED lights to show.

I have been in contact by email a few times with PFC tech support and they are yet to supply any answers and only suggestion has been to connect the D9 cable from computer directly to the STack.

What makes this more a hardware issue in my mind and that is the purose of this post, is I can make the numbers on the stacj change, if I open a radio stack on a afct in FSX and with my mouse change the freq's, the freq's change on the hardware stack.

One more thing, if I try and use FSX keyboard consoles to set the bottom line of buttons on the stack, eg reset, start etc, it locks up FSX.

I am running FSUIPC version 4.30 and PFC Version 2.30

If you have any suggestions or anyone else does, then I would be very pleased to hear them.

Thanks

Phil

[Pete Dowson]

I doubt this is a software issue Peter, but I will post and see.

I'm afraid you are right, it has to be a hardware or connection issue. The software in the PC (my PFC.DLL or PFCFSX.DLL) doesn't distinguish between codes arriving from or sent to the Avionics stack, as it merely appears as part of the provisions on the main controller board and firmware in the Cirrus. If things were going wrong at the PC end it would affect the Cirrus too.

I recently got a new PC without any onbaord serial comm port, so I tried a USB adaptor one and also a PCI card one.

I've been using those USB - serial adapters for years, even on the PCs which have got serial ports, because they are faster and more efficient in how they operate in the PC. For my Vista64 PC, though, I had to get a PCI serial card because there were no 64-bit drivers for the USB adapters.

At first I thought issue was the usb serial or PCI card to serial and I connect it back up to slightly older PC with a onboard serial comm and still get same problem.

Right. confirmation then that something's gone awry in the unit.

I have been in contact by email a few times with PFC tech support and they are yet to supply any answers and only suggestion has been to connect the D9 cable from computer directly to the STack.

Will that work? I've never tried that. I always thought it depended upon the controlller card in the main unit.

One more thing, if I try and use FSX keyboard consoles to set the bottom line of buttons on the stack, eg reset, start etc, it locks up FSX.

sorry, I'm not understanding something there. What does "use FSX keyboard consoles" mean?

No matter how badly behaved the stack might be, you shouldn't be able to lock up FSX by using anything. That's a bit worrying. Can you explain in more detail exactly what you are doing? Maybe enabling the serial port logging (the top two checkboxes on the left-hand side of the "Test" tab in the PFC options) would show what it is doing when "locking up"? Maybe it is sending data so fast, possibly repeating things, that the PC doesn't get to do much else?

I am running FSUIPC version 4.30 and PFC Version 2.30

There are later versions of both available in the FSX Downloads announcement above, and you could try those, but I don't think it will make any difference.

Regards

Pete

[remind]

Hi Peter and others, thank you for quick replies.

Yes logically it has to be a hardware value of the stack, as you say if it was the pci serial card connection or the software, then my console would also not be working.

What also backs this up as I posted last night, Ive noticed over say last 6 plus months , when FSX loaded a flight and the PFC check program ran, I sometimes got this reply to avionics stack >avionics Green tick or

>>>> Avionics green tick and then I would look at the stack and comm one would have no LED's light showing. I would have to press the on buttom quite a few times for it to work, no of that works no of course.

I know the unit is a set of modules, well it looks like it is, I wil have to open it up and maybe try disconnecting a module at a time, if that makes sense? to see if it makes any difference.

If I find one faulty, I guess it's better to only hve to replace one module and not the whole stack.

Now why PFC has not got back to me to say this or what I can do about it, is disaapointing. I emailed them again last night my time hopefully I wil hear back.

Peter, what I meant about PFC crashing FSX, when one opens the PFC add on, you clock on the avionics buttons tab, below it, you can check the box, list all FSX ctrls. After I check this, if I then with mouse click on any of the down arrows, FSX locks up and restarts. I suspect reason for this is that the stack is not working correctly.

Oh, I didn't know there were newer versions of FSUIPC etc, I must be going blind, as I checked you page yesterday, I'll check again

Cheers

Phil

[Pete Dowson]

I know the unit is a set of modules, well it looks like it is, I wil have to open it up and maybe try disconnecting a module at a time, if that makes sense? to see if it makes any difference.

If I find one faulty, I guess it's better to only hve to replace one module and not the whole stack.

Maybe, but I guess it could also be a malfunction in the cirrus controller board. That has to mesh / unmesh the stack data to and from the PC along with its own. I think this is why PFC wanted you to try connecting just the stack directly to the PC -- assuming this is possible, which is something I didn't know.

Assuming it is possible, this would be one way of determining, first, whether it's the Cirrus or the Avioincs stack needing repair. I suspect PFC are waiting for your result on this.

Now why PFC has not got back to me to say this or what I can do about it, is disaapointing. I emailed them again last night my time hopefully I wil hear back.

Well, assuming they aren't awaiting the results of the check they asked you to do, the other reason, generally, is that they are a relatively small company with a large range of products, and often the skilled support folks are out on user sites and exhibitions etc. Even I have to wait a long time for tech responses, and they treat me as "one of them"! ;-)

Peter, what I meant about PFC crashing FSX, when one opens the PFC add on, you clock on the avionics buttons tab, below it, you can check the box, list all FSX ctrls. After I check this, if I then with mouse click on any of the down arrows, FSX locks up and restarts. I suspect reason for this is that the stack is not working correctly.

No, that shouldn't be the case because when you are in those PFC options the hardware is not being read. I don't like the sound of that -- it sounds more like either a bug in PFC.DLL or some interaction with other software, lke a mouse driver. There's definitely something else going on there. Can you tell me what other software you have running. Version of Windows, mouse driver, etc?

Oh, I didn't know there were newer versions of FSUIPC etc, I must be going blind, as I checked you page yesterday, I'll check again

What page? I don't have any pages other than this Forum, and all the Announcements and update downloads are at the top of the forum, as in any Forum. Don't you ever look there? :-(

Regards

Pete

[remind]

I know the unit is a set of modules, well it looks like it is, I wil have to open it up and maybe try disconnecting a module at a time, if that makes sense? to see if it makes any difference.

If I find one faulty, I guess it's better to only hve to replace one module and not the whole stack.

Maybe, but I guess it could also be a malfunction in the cirrus controller board. That has to mesh / unmesh the stack data to and from the PC along with its own. I think this is why PFC wanted you to try connecting just the stack directly to the PC -- assuming this is possible, which is something I didn't know.

Assuming it is possible, this would be one way of determining, first, whether it's the Cirrus or the Avioincs stack needing repair. I suspect PFC are waiting for your result on this.

Now why PFC has not got back to me to say this or what I can do about it, is disaapointing. I emailed them again last night my time hopefully I wil hear back.

Well, assuming they aren't awaiting the results of the check they asked you to do, the other reason, generally, is that they are a relatively small company with a large range of products, and often the skilled support folks are out on user sites and exhibitions etc. Even I have to wait a long time for tech responses, and they treat me as "one of them"! ;-)

"Oh, okay, Yes, I just have to have more patience re above. I can still use console for flying with FSX as it is anyway, that is the main thing. I see their warranty is a lifetime one on their consoles etc, that is good to know.

I'll wait till I hear from them before I go unplugging mouldes etc inside stack. as it may void warranty."

Peter, what I meant about PFC crashing FSX, when one opens the PFC add on, you clock on the avionics buttons tab, below it, you can check the box, list all FSX ctrls. After I check this, if I then with mouse click on any of the down arrows, FSX locks up and restarts. I suspect reason for this is that the stack is not working correctly.

No, that shouldn't be the case because when you are in those PFC options the hardware is not being read. I don't like the sound of that -- it sounds more like either a bug in PFC.DLL or some interaction with other software, lke a mouse driver. There's definitely something else going on there. Can you tell me what other software you have running. Version of Windows, mouse driver, etc?

"I'm runing Vista SP1 32bit, Mouse is just a Wireless Dell mouse keyboard combo. Would it help you if I took a snapshot of issue and posted it here?"

Oh, I didn't know there were newer versions of FSUIPC etc, I must be going blind, as I checked your page yesterday, I'll check again

What page? I don't have any pages other than this Forum, and all the Announcements and update downloads are at the top of the forum, as in any Forum. Don't you ever look there? :-(

"No I haven't, thanks for pointing me in right direction." :oops: "

Maybe words your page was wrong, I just asumed it was. Page I am talking about is this one.

http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html

Cheers Phil"

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I had rather a job finding YOUR bits of your last message. I don't think you've got the hang of the quoting facility yet, have you?

Anyway, please check if I've missed anything important:

"I'm runing Vista SP1 32bit, Mouse is just a Wireless Dell mouse keyboard combo. Would it help you if I took a snapshot of issue and posted it here?"

If that's possible, yes, it might.

Maybe words your page was wrong, I just asumed it was. Page I am talking about is this one.

http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html

Oh, that's not mine! In fact it clearly says so -- it is by Enrico Schiratti. He hosts all the main releases, and has done for many years. Others used to host some of them, but only Enrico Schiratti has always put them all up, which is why it is referenced quite a lot.

I cannot update that page directly. I release main user packages to around 50 website managers and developers, and they put up what they like. For the many many interim updates and other useful files I only have the space afforded by this Forum's download system, and those are accessed via the links in the Announcements.

The Announcements here are my main way of keeping folks abreast of things. I don't know how folks arrive with posts here without seeing them first. Whenever I come here they are all right at the top, staring me in the face! Maybe other browsers hide them??

Pete

[remind]

Hi Peter, I have downloaded the updates for FSUIPC and PFC and that has fixed this minor issue of PFC and FSX locking up when I click on list FSX ctrls and try and assign the bottom buttons on Avionics stack, e.g Reset, Start, Freeze etc.

Now have version FSUIPC V4.324 & PCFFSX V4.317.

A question you may or may not be able to answer. If I can using my mouse to change for example the radio freq on a radio stack of a afct in FSX and that also changes the LED numbers of the PFC stack for comm 2, then would you say that FSX and the serial comm is commincating okay with the stack?

Anyway I wait for PFC tech support to get back to me re Avionics stack.

Thanks for your assistance.

Cheers

Phil

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Peter, I have downloaded the updates for FSUIPC and PFC and that has fixed this minor issue of PFC and FSX locking up when I click on list FSX ctrls and try and assign the bottom buttons on Avionics stack, e.g Reset, Start, Freeze etc.

Now have version FSUIPC V4.324 & PCFFSX V4.317.

Ah, good. It must have been some software issue then, as I thought.

A question you may or may not be able to answer. If I can using my mouse to change for example the radio freq on a radio stack of a afct in FSX and that also changes the LED numbers of the PFC stack for comm 2, then would you say that FSX and the serial comm is commincating okay with the stack?

Well, yes -- one way at least. But I thought you said COM1 didn't display?

Anyway I wait for PFC tech support to get back to me re Avionics stack.

Aren't they waiting for you to get back to them about what happens when you connect only the Avionics stack, directly? If that is possible it at least will determine which part in at fault.

Regards

Pete

[remind]

Pete,

Thanks again for reply.

Now this has to be, well I am assuming it is,, because I got a updated driver earlier in week for the PCI to serial card, as I just connected the D9 cable that normally connects to the console, directyly to the avionics stack.

I have tried that before at the suggestion of PFC tech, well this time I got a different result, in fact a great result. The stack is working fine with that conneciton.

Which I can only draw one conclusion, the green cable that runs from the console to the stack has to be the one at fault.

That is a cable which has what I would call a LPT plug, like for older printer ports, that ends connects to console and the D9 plug connects to stack.

I will advise PFC tech this evening what I have just typed. I think I may have amongst older cables and computer parts a cable that I may be able to swap for the green one, to test out my theory.

Cheers

Phil

[Pete Dowson]

The stack is working fine with that conneciton.

Which I can only draw one conclusion, the green cable that runs from the console to the stack has to be the one at fault.

Well, yes, it could be the cable, or it could be the inner part of the Cirrus which handles the connection and merging of the Avionics data with its own.

Certainly the easiest thing to try first would be a new cable.

That is a cable which has what I would call a LPT plug, like for older printer ports, that ends connects to console and the D9 plug connects to stack.

Do you mean a D25 to a D9? They will both be COM serial port plugs. Some cables actually have both a D9 and D25 at each end -- I have several like that. They date from the days when a PC tended to have one D9 for COM1 and one D25 for COM2 (or maybe vice versa).

You can get D9-D25 and D25-D9 adapters quite easiely still, I think.

Of course non-serial old-style printer ports were often the IEEE parallel type with a different connector altogether -- a much more expensive affair in fact.

Regards

Pete

[remind]

Hi Pete,

Yes you are correct,

"You can get D9-D25 and D25-D9 adapters quite easiely still"

I think I have one somewhere or I'm sure a Electronics / computer shop wil have one..

I do have a spare D9 to D9 cable.

This will rule out the cable and if it does it will appear to be as you said.

"the inner part of the Cirrus which handles the connection and merging of the Avionics data with its own"

Anyway thanks again, I wil see if I can find the apator or else I'll get one at the weekend.

We'll see what happens.

Cheers

Phil

[remind]

Well that didn''t help to try and sort out this problem.

I got my hands on a Adaptor which changed thh DB9 serial cable I have spare into a Db25 male at other end.

However when I connected this up instead of the green cable from console to stack, the stack was not found and LED lights did not change from what they are if one turns unti on with FSX running.

i.e the date shows on nav one as 04 15 2004.

I've rang around and searched the web including Ebay, it appears no one sells a cable that is male 25 pin at one end and male 9 pin at other end.

They all appear to be female at the 25pin end.

No choice but to what for PFC tech support to get back.

cheers

Phil

[Pete Dowson]

I got my hands on a Adaptor which changed thh DB9 serial cable I have spare into a Db25 male at other end.

However when I connected this up instead of the green cable from console to stack, the stack was not found and LED lights did not change from what they are if one turns unti on with FSX running.

Sounds like the cable you tried to use was a null-modem cable (ones where the wires cross, i.e. 2-3, 3-2 and so on, instead of 2-2, 3-3 and so on -- for PC to PC connections rather than Pc to peripheral). Either that, or it was a straight cable and you actually need a crossed-over one, but I think that is slightly less likely.

If you have a simple circuit tester or meter you could check whether pin 2 at one end is connected to pin 2 or pin 3 at the other.

I've rang around and searched the web including Ebay, it appears no one sells a cable that is male 25 pin at one end and male 9 pin at other end. They all appear to be female at the 25pin end.

That's not normally a problem as little gender-bender adapters should be easy to get in both 9 and 25 pin sizes. I've got both male-male ones and female-female ones.

Pete

[remind]

Thanks again for reply

I have worked out it is not the cable.

I took the cover off the console and checked the wireing was not loose to the module, I could not find anything apprently wonr, but I just happned to move the console and avionics stack was back working fine, but it is not stable, if I move it back in place it works and the doesn't work.

So likely conclusion, loose wire or connection on module somewhere.

It doesn't sound like module itself is bad, as moving the console a ittle wouldn't change the result, of course now it is not working, since I put monitor back on top of console.

I have a mate who is into eletronics things like this more than me, he'll hopefully wil be able to have a look at it tomorrow.

Pete, would you happen to know at all which of these black connectors I guess one calls them, that have little screws into them, that connect sets of wires to the module would be for the for avionics?

Thanks

Phil

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, would you happen to know at all which of these black connectors I guess one calls them, that have little screws into them, that connect sets of wires to the module would be for the for avionics?

Sorry, I am not visualising what you are talking about. And anyway I don't know much about the hardware. However, surely you can trace the wiring from the from the avionics cable socket to the control board?

Regards

Pete

[remind]

Thanks anyway and yes good point.

That I shall do with my mates help.

Cheers

Phil