Question fsuipc + fs2004 - taxi wind

[kerosene31]

I was reading the manual for the latest version, and it mentions that fsuipc cannot change the weather if using either weather themes or real world weather. Maybe I am reading it wrong?

Does this mean that the automatic taxi wind option won't work in combination with either themes or real weather within fs2004? The wind effects in 2004 are better, but I would still prefer to shut them off while on the ground as in 2002.

Thanks,

Craig from KBUF

[Pete Dowson]

I was reading the manual for the latest version, and it mentions that fsuipc cannot change the weather if using either weather themes or real world weather. Maybe I am reading it wrong?

FSUIPC has never dealt properly with "localised" weather -- which in the past meant FS downloaded weather, but now includes the themes too. The problem is that there are hundreds of separate weather stations, and FS interpolates between them. Whatever FSUIPC does to interfere in that just results in unpredictability and possibly nasty failures.

Most all the weather features in FSUIPC have always been related to weather injected externally, by add-on weather programs using its interfaces. Some of the facilities have also been applied to "global" weather, and this is still true.

However, whilst this may appear to result in *less* facilities from FSUIPC, in fact I've managed to make much better use of the completely re-vamped FS weather engine. The "New Weather Interface" allows external programs to read the weather at any weather station in the world, no matter how it was set, and also to write weather for each weather station.

The NWI opens up new opportunities for improved weather programs, and you'll be seeing these appear quite soon, I hope. Try reding local weather stations using WeatherSet2, included in the ZIP.

Also countering the argument about less facilities, I would strongly argue that the weather engine is so good in FS2004 that mostly the FSUIPC manipulations are either not needed or really could simply ruin the realism you would otherwise get.

Does this mean that the automatic taxi wind option won't work in combination with either themes or real weather within fs2004?

There are no taxi-wind facilities for FS2004 for the reasons I give above.

The wind effects in 2004 are better, but I would still prefer to shut them off while on the ground as in 2002.

I think you'll find there's no need. the ground friction is better and the aircraft don't weather-vane unrealistically now.

Regards,

Pete

[kerosene31]

Thanks for the quick reply! I think I understand now.

[BruceN]

In regard to the taxi wind option, I too miss this setting. FS2004 does have better frictional ground effects, but they are still not realistic in higher wind scenarios, especially with lighter aircraft. Basically, if one cannot keep the aircraft on the taxiway or runway with full rudder deflection, then there must be a problem! :)

Peter, would you reinstate the taxi wind option for those instances where it's needed?

Regards,

Bruce Nicholson

[Pete Dowson]

Peter, would you reinstate the taxi wind option for those instances where it's needed?

I could only do this for global weather, not for the normal FS local weather. i.e. as in previous versions. So it would apply, for instance to the use of FSMeteo 5 to FS2004 but not FSMeteo 6, which sets local weather.

Somehow I think it would not get much use, due to the tremendous improvement in the weather setups you will get with local weather.

The problem is that when all the different local metar stations are set with their own specific local winds, it is not possible really to keep track of which ones should be set to 1 knot and which not, even if I knew them all (which I don't). If I am setting local weather on behalf of an external program I can replace all of the surface winds by 1 knot winds, but not restore them after -- the data storage and checking mechanism would be a nightmare. It would really be far easier for the external program do handle it instead.

In fact, have you asked Marc or Damian for this? I think that would be better, I really do.

Regards,

Pete

[jase439]

I would like to see taxi-wind make a return whether in FSUIPC or FSMeteo. The friction modelling is improved in 2K4, but lighter GA craft are still, IMO, uncontrollable in even a gentle crosswind - especially for those of us without rudder pedals who have to "twist" the flightstick to yaw.

While I understand the technical challenges, I was disappointed to see this feature removed from FSUIPC 3.

[Pete Dowson]

I would like to see taxi-wind make a return whether in FSUIPC or FSMeteo.... While I understand the technical challenges, I was disappointed to see this feature removed from FSUIPC 3.

I can do it for global weather, but really I think that's a dead duck in FS2004, a waste of effort. Doing it for local weather would be a real problem, I'd have to think further about how I could do that --- it would be a big job, because I think I would effectively have to maintain a parallel weather structure, at least for the winds.

I'll think about it further when there is more time to spare.

For global weather there is the "maximum surface wind" facility which you can apply now. But of course this will affect the surface wind even when you are not on the ground.

Maybe Marc will consider it for a future FSMeteo update. I think it would be easier for the weather control program, as it knows which WX stations are around the aircraft, which ones need such manipulating. That's my main problem at present, I just have not yet found a way to identify them from within FS. I did manage to find the "current three" in FS2000/FS2002 -- those versions used a series of triangles to determine the WX stations which influence the local weather. However, it is all different in FS2004.

Anyway, I will leave it on my list for solving as and when. If I do come up with an idea I might pursue it there and then, but quite honestly every possible method I have thought of either plain wouldn't work, or would be very precarious.

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

HOLD THE FRONT PAGE!

I may have found a way to "fiddle" the wind values, so that taxi wind and wind smoothing can be applied universally, from any weather source!

Don't hold me to this as I have to prove the idea yet with some testing, but it looks like I might be able to intercept the wind read-out used for simulating flight and manipulate it before it is applied to the aircraft.

This is an out-and-out fiddle, if it works. The 1 knot or smoothed wind won't show on the screen, or on (most?) wind indicators, or in ATIS or other weather reports. But it looks like it will be the actual active wind on the aircraft.

It may possibly apply to all aircraft - AI ones included - so their selected runways may be affected too, but this was always a potential problem with taxi winds in FS2002 as well.

Regards,

Pete

[edrut]

Pete,

First off, thank you for you hard work and years of dedication to the hobby!

I wanted to ask if this potential fix with taxi wind will also help smooth local weather transitions for FS2004 or FSMeteo real weather. Both MS Jeps data and the downloads from FSMeteo often have severe wind transitons between layers that cause sudden weathervaning and overspeed conditions. I understand 3.04 only addresses global weather. If this new approach pans out - will it address this local weather.

Best Regards,

Ed

[Pete Dowson]

I wanted to ask if this potential fix with taxi wind will also help smooth local weather transitions for FS2004 or FSMeteo real weather. Both MS Jeps data and the downloads from FSMeteo often have severe wind transitons between layers that cause sudden weathervaning and overspeed conditions.

From what I've seen and heard, it isn't between layers, there seems to be quite good smoothing by FS thenm it is something going very odd within the layers themselves.

I understand 3.04 only addresses global weather. If this new approach pans out - will it address this local weather.

If it works and has no bad side effects, yes, but the problem is the weather indications such as Shift+Z will not then show that actual wind affecting the aircraft. I still need to do experiments and tests to see what can be done.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I wanted to ask if this potential fix with taxi wind will also help smooth local weather transitions for FS2004 or FSMeteo real weather. Both MS Jeps data and the downloads from FSMeteo often have severe wind transitons between layers that cause sudden weathervaning and overspeed conditions.

I've spent several days full-time looking at this now, and I'm afraid I cannot find a solution at present. For some reason I do seem to be able to overcome the surface wind condition enough to be able to implement Taxi Winds. But similar techniques are just not working at all for any other layer. I don't know why. Maybe I'll find a way one day.

The problems you are seeing with sudden wind shifts do NOT only occur between layers. According to all the tests I've done, they also occur when flying level right slap-bang in the middle of a layer. The changes which are causing this are conflicting winds reported by nearby METAR stations. It seems there is a bug or two in FS2004's interpolation algorithm which can result in these changes, even complete reversals.

I think the only short term answer is to see if programs like FSMeteo and ActiveSky can examine the winds being set for neighbouring METAR stations and try to smooth the differences a little, or at least eliminate outright reversals (except in storms -- perhaps they can compare the pressure difference and allow greater wind differences for greater pressure differences).

Maybe adjust them over time. The problems then I suspect will be one of performance. It is very difficult to change any aspect of FS2004 weather without risking inducing stutters.

Sorry for bad news. I did have high hopes when I found I could impose the taxi wind. Shame.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

Even more bad news. The solution for Taxi Winds that I thought I had does not work. I can certainly prevent the winds from doing anything to a stationary aircraft, but as soon as it starts moving some part of FS is destroying my carefully set up taxi wind, and no matter what I do it applies the 'real wind' to the aircraft behaviour. I can fool ATIS and the screen display and other things, but not the simulation. I think it is getting its weather data from a different route, one I've not yet uncovered.

I am having to give up on this for now and get on with other things. I will start burrowing further into the Weather DLL of FS at some later date.

Sorry,

Pete