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Saitek throttle inoperative


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... this time no axes would register and after a few seconds, a MS message appeared stating that FSX had encounted a problem and needed to shut down.

Ouch! Were there no details of the crash reported by Windows -- module name, address?

I then shut down and on checking the .INI file noticed that LogExtra=x808 had been substituted for the LogExtra=2056.

Yes, that's okay. hex 808 is the same as decimal 2056.

It concerns me greatly, that trying to get details of the route followed by your throttle changes actually crashes FSX. That is unexpected, and may be related to the problem you have.

I have included below a copy of the log of one of the attempted tests.

Okay. I'll look at that to see what it might show me ...

1. I note that logs are recorded in the normal log file, however I am not sure as to how to give you separate logs for each of the test as you request. I was intending to copy each test as recorded, shutting down FSX each time between each test. (only way I could see how to do it). How should it be done?

That's the only good way to do it. In other words:

1. Run FSX.

2. Change the axis assignments to suit the test needs.

3. Test.

4. Close FSX (if it doesn't crash!).

5. ZIP up the FSUIPC4.LOG file (also, please, the FSUIPC4.INI file with it -- then I can be sure it is set okay), with an appropriate name for the ZIP.

Am I using the correct method of disabling the PFC quadrant? I have ticked the enable quadrant box and assigned the blank configuration to the aircraft.

Yes.

In actual fact, if the quadrant was interfering I wouldn't expect it to be only the throttle that's affected. After all, there are 6 axes there. Yet you did prove that everything was fine when the PFCFSX module was removed, did you not?

On to the log, which I'm afraid never gets as far as showing much of any operation of any axis, be it Mixture, Prop or Throttle. You seem to start the test by using a control to

"PAN_DOWN", then operate the Magneto/Starter switch "MAGNETO1_SET" and the fuel selectors "FUEL_SELECTOR_SET", etc. and then again some more "PAN_DOWN"s and a "PAN_LEFT". Are all these operations needed before you try moving the throttle lever? It would simplify things just to move the throttle, nothing else if possible.

Anyway, there is one sequence which helps me:

  • 118547 Axis 0Z=-16123: Action=4 (direct to calib)
    118547 Direct Axis 4, Ctrl 65765=-16123 : in calibration ...
    118547 ###JOY### Event seen, ID=65765 (0x000100E5), Joy=3, value=-16123 (Direct)

This is AXIS_THROTTLE_SET. Then it crashed. Which test was this from, do you recall? All the hard work seems to have been done -- it has seen your axis "0Z" change, sent the raw value, -16123 to the calibration routine, and should then calibrate is and send it on...the arbitration with any other axis is long past, so that explains that my correctioon to the code there didn't help/

Best not to do the tests again, yet, till I work out how to stop or detect the cause of the crash. It isn't just the logging selection, as that doesn't cause a crash here ...

Later.

Pete

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Hi Pete,

Yes, there were details of the crash reported by Windows:

Error signature

AppName fsx.exe AppVer:10.0.61472.0 ModName:msver80.ddl

ModVer:8.0.50727.1433 Offset:00011787

Yes, everything was fine when PFC FXS module was removed.

Yes, I did pan down and left at the start of the test so that I can see the control levers, but I certainly don't operate the magneto/starter or fuel selector (no buttons or axes are assigned to these controls either). What would cause this? Anyway, I'll save the flight in the view showing all the control levers before I next run the tests and so avoid these preliminary operations.

Awaiting your further advice.

Bill

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AppName fsx.exe AppVer:10.0.61472.0 ModName:msver80.ddl

ModVer:8.0.50727.1433 Offset:00011787

Good, thanks. Found it.

And in fact the crash actually helped, because following the logging which SHOULD have happened I found the one which crashed FSX was in an exception routine which sets out deliberately to suppress other throttles when PFCFSX has detected a throttle quadrant!

Yes, everything was fine when PFC FXS module was removed.

It's actually not a bug but a facility i incorporated years ago and evidently clean forgot about. It was added into FSUIPC2 many years ago, and was originally optional, but became "compulsory" shortly afterwards after too many folks were getting into trouble.

Humble apologies.

I shall add a new parameter to the Joystick calibration section(s) of the FSUIPC4.INI file to allow folks to disable this suppression. Provided they then take care to assign a blank quadrant to the relevant aircraft, things should remain perfectly flexible. I shall have to document it in both the PFC and FSUIPC packages.

Yes, I did pan down and left at the start of the test so that I can see the control levers, but I certainly don't operate the magneto/starter or fuel selector (no buttons or axes are assigned to these controls either). What would cause this?

I don't remember which PFC unit you have. Is it the cirrus? If so, it is the mags and fuel selector on that. The PFC controller sends the state of some of those switches even when you don't operate them. It helps keep them in sync, though oddly they don't do that for all latching switches.

Anyway, I'll save the flight in the view showing all the control levers before I next run the tests and so avoid these preliminary operations.

No need now ...

Awaiting your further advice.

... I'll add the parameter facility you need and give you further details when the revised FSUIPC4 is ready. Meanwhile, remove those logging lines. You shouldn't need them now.

Watch this space!

Regards

Pete

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Watch this space!

Duh!

I'm getting senile as well as old! :-(

The option IS still available, in the PFC driver!!! I don't need really to add anything to FSUIPC -- but I'll carry on now I've started as it makes it possible for FSUIPC to automatically suppress the non-PFC throttle quadrant when switching aircraft. I'll also add a warning "but using PFC" against the throttle, prop and mixture axes in the Calibration tab when the axes are being suppressed.

Please, delete those extra logging entries, then run FSX. Go to the PFC options, not the FSUIPC ones, and right there, on the Main tab, UNSELECT the option

  • "Suppress possible interference from Game Port throttle assignments".

I'll need to re-word that on the next PFC update, as obviously Game Port isn't the right term these days -- USB wasn't around when I did the first PFC versions.

The obtions is not selected by default, and this is why I couldn't repro your problem. I clean forgot about that option and never looked once at the PFC driver! ;-)

Please confirm this is the correct diagnosis, at long last!

Regards

Pete

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I don't need really to add anything to FSUIPC -- but I'll carry on now I've started as it makes it possible for FSUIPC to automatically suppress the non-PFC throttle quadrant when switching aircraft. I'll also add a warning "but using PFC" against the throttle, prop and mixture axes in the Calibration tab when the axes are being suppressed.

Okay, version 4.433, now available, has these facilities -- the warnings in the Calibrations sections for all throttles and reversers (because that is all it affects), and an extra JoystickCalibration parameter "AllowSuppressForPFCquad" parameter, which can individually override the suppression, even if it is enabled in the PFC driver, for all or specific aircraft. The default is "Yes", so it acts as it did before this version.

The same changes apply to 3.871 for FS9 and before.

Regards

Pete

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Hi Pete,

Great, your diagnosis is correct. I probably checked the option to 'Suppress possible interference...' in the PFC options, without fully understanding the full ramifications of doing so.

I have caused you a great deal of trouble as a result and I apologise for this. Nonetheless, this exercise has been a great learning experience for me and I very much appreciate your patience in assisting me.

I will now get even more out of your great program than I was previously capable of, although I still have a lot to learn.

I have instaled the new 4.33 version, however I don't see either the warnings or the 'AllowSuppressForPFCquad' that you refer to; where should I be looking?

Thanks and regards,

Bill

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I have instaled the new 4.33 version, however I don't see either the warnings or the 'AllowSuppressForPFCquad' that you refer to; where should I be looking?

4.433.

The "AllowSuppressForPFCQuad" parameter will be added to the currently active [JoyStickCalibration ...] section only -- FSUIPC doesn't read inactive sections till they are activated by loading the associated aircraft. If there isn't such a parameter, then as usual you can add one yourself.

The warnings will only appear if you have the PFC driver running AND that "suppress possible interference ..." option is set -- if it isn't then there is no need for the warning. The warning is a little extra text next to the affected axes in the appropriate Calibration tab pages -- Throttles and Reversers only (reversers using the FS throttle axes too of course).

The reason the suppression is ONLY for throttles is that it is only variations in those which cause autopilot problems for FS -- e.g. the A/T disconnecting.

Regards

Pete

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