Compound button - what is wrong here?

[guenseli]

Hello it's me again,

I have a little problem.

Want to assign a compound button.

If I press button 4 then "next sub View" is the action.

Now I want to have with button 5 AND button 4 the action "prev sub View"

The same procedure I have done with the parking brake, button 5 and button 0 are parking brake.

Just button 0 is "brakes".

But with the combination button 5 and button 4 an combined the action isn't working.

Other combinations are working as they should, e.g. Button 5 and 3 or buttons 4 and 3

But not buttons 5 and 4

I have copied here the part with the Button section.

The entries are at position 59 (next sub view) and 78 (the compound which is not working.

I have FSX and version 4.505.

hopefully you can find a mistake...?

thank you!

[buttons]

1=PB,6,C66059,0

2=UB,6,C66060,0

3=PB,7,Cx06000D0C,x0008

4=UB,7,Cx0A000D0C,x0008

5=PB,8,C66056,0

6=UB,8,C66057,0

7=PB,9,Cx06000D0C,x0010

8=UB,9,Cx0A000D0C,x0010

9=PB,10,Cx06000D0C,x0002

10=UB,10,Cx0A000D0C,x0002

11=PB,11,Cx06000D0C,x0001

12=UB,11,Cx0A000D0C,x0001

14=RA,32,C65734,0

15=RA,36,C65735,0

16=RA,38,C65671,0

17=RA,34,C65672,0

18=PA,9,C66080,0

19=PA,8,C66079,0

20=PA,11,C65758,0

21=PA,10,C65759,0

22=RA,13,C66525,0

23=RA,12,C66524,0

24=RA,16,C65656,0

25=RA,17,C65655,0

26=PA,2,C65580,0

27=PA,1,C66224,0

32=RA,7,K113,8

33=RC,7,K113,8

34=PD,6,C66226,0

35=PA,3,C66506,225

36=PA,21,C66615,0

37=PA,19,C66616,0

38=PA,20,C66625,0

39=PA,22,C66626,0

41=RC,8,K114,8

42=PC,0,C66106,0

43=PC,2,C65729,0

44=PC,4,C65724,0

45=PC,1,C65799,0

46=PC,3,C66112,0

47=PC,5,C66375,0

48=PB,4,C66241,0

49=PB,5,C66293,0

50=PB,34,C66242,0

51=PB,0,C65930,0

52=PB,1,C65936,0

53=PB,2,C65942,0

54=PB,3,C65948,0

55=UB,0,C65932,0

56=UB,1,C65938,0

57=UB,2,C65944,0

58=UB,3,C65950,0

59=PA,4,C66153,0

60=PD,5,K82,11

61=PD,4,C65858,0

63=PA,6,K82,9

64=PD,2,C65894,0

65=CP(+A,24)(+A,6)A,17,C65879,0

66=RA,24,C65879,0

67=RA,26,C65880,0

68=RA,23,C65892,0

69=RA,25,C65893,0

70=PD,3,C65895,0

71=PD,7,K112,8

72=RA,0,C65588,0

ButtonRepeat=20,10

73=CP(+A,5)A,0,C65752,0

74=PA,19,C66064,0

75=UA,19,C66065,0

76=PA,14,C66064,0

77=UA,14,C66065,0

78=CP(+A,5)A,4,C66154,0

79=PA,15,C65564,0

[Pete Dowson]

hopefully you can find a mistake...?

Yes. "Next view" and "Prev view" cancel each other out!

With combinations the action only takes place when the combination is true -- you get that right. But you forget that the button-alone actions are ALSO occurring.

For button 4 without button 5 you have to have the condition "not button 5" -- that is what the "-" facility is for, opposite of "+".

All button actions relevant for a button are execured, not just the one you want, but all those which are valid. you have to eliminate those you do not want as well as select those you do.

You could find this out yourself using FSUIPC logging -- enable Button and Event logging and see what happens in the Log file!

Regards

Pete

[guenseli]

Thanks for your reply...

I think heres my english a little bit to bad.

In short words: it is not possible to realize this switch button?

Or please, if I do misunderstand you, can you code the two line here with the example of the views?

"next sub view" at button 4 and "prev sub view" when I press button 5 AND button 4

Sorry for asking you again, but I really haven't you understand due to my bad english...

[Pete Dowson]

In short words: it is not possible to realize this switch button?

Of course it is possible. I just explained how!

Look: you said

The entries are at position 59 (next sub view) and 78 (the compound which is not working.

Now take a look at 59 and 78. If you put them next to each other it should be obvious what is wrong:

59=PA,4,C66153,0

78=CP(+A,5)A,4,C66154,0

FSUIPC sees button 4, so it obeys line 59. After all, what is stopping it? It also sees button 5 too and still button 4, so it also obeys 78. Therefore it does a "next sub view" and a "prev sub view". Result? No change in view -- they cancel each other!!

Your other combinations are doing the same, it is just that they don't cancel each other so obviously. Example, Brake -- Parking Brake. The latter takes over from the former, but they both happen!

If you only want one or the other to happen, you have to set the condition for that! FSUIPC cannot read your mind. Try this change:

59=CP(-A,5)A,4,C66153,0

78=CP(+A,5)A,4,C66154,0

Now do you see how the two are mutually exclusive? Instead of both actions occurring when button 5 and 4 are pressed, only one, the second one can happen, because the first only happens when button 5 is NOT pressed.

If you don't tell FSUIPC that button 5 must not be pressed, there is nothing stopping both lines from activating!

The same applies to some of your other settings.

Pete

[guenseli]

Thank you for answering and patience, Mr. Dowson!

Now I have understood you correctly. Well explained!

I haven't tried it out now, but I'm sure it will work, or course!

I'd like to reassign my complete Joystick and get a little bit more organizastion into my FSUIPC.ini

Can I add comments (for myself) between the lines in the ini?

And can I rearrange the buttons-order? Have I to change the order-numbers or can I just move the lines were I want?

[Pete Dowson]

Can I add comments (for myself) between the lines in the ini?

Yes, but if you want them retained you need to number them too. e.g.

23=; my comment

The number will ensure it is retained and keeps its position.

And can I rearrange the buttons-order? Have I to change the order-numbers or can I just move the lines were I want?

You really need to number them in the order you want them. They can sometimes get re-ordered otherwise.

Just edit the oder to what you want, then renumber the lines accordingly.

Remember that where you have sequences for one button, the order matters.

Regards

Pete

[guenseli]

Thank you for your fast reply.

One question left:

Couldn't it be a feature, that the user can define a switch button via the FSUIPC dialog?

Just a question if it is possible for you to realize it...

[Pete Dowson]

Couldn't it be a feature, that the user can define a switch button via the FSUIPC dialog?

Just a question if it is possible for you to realize it...

Er, sorry. What is not possible for a switch at present? I don't understand your request.

Pete

[guenseli]

sorry,

i mean to assign it via the FSUIPC dialog inside FSX.

So when I press e.g. Button 5 I can assign it as switch button.

Now I have to edit manually the ini (which is no problem at all)

But more practical would be to get this feature without editing manually...

Some kind of dialog which says: button 5 AND button 4 make this or this action

Or is it already implemented and I haven't found it till now?

I hope you can understand my poor english explainings ;-)

[Pete Dowson]

So when I press e.g. Button 5 I can assign it as switch button.

Oh, you mean as a "shift", or "selector" for conditional operation of other buttons! Sorry -- I use the word "Switch" like "button" -- a button is something you push and release, a switch is something you toggle. A switch is usually latching, a button isn't. else they are the same.

Some kind of dialog which says: button 5 AND button 4 make this or this action

Yes, I know what you mean. And designing such a dialogue which is easy to use is the hard bit. I'm afraid user interface design is not my area of expertise (as you may have noticed). The versatility of compound conditionals in the button parameters is not very easy to translate into a usable dialogue design, At least it isn't without restricting it too much. There are designs for multiple button conditions, not just one as you have, and there are designs for handling graycode encoders which are even more difficult to fathom out simply enough for put into a dialogue format.

It ends up being a question of time spent doing a partial job, which may help one or two folks but not do the real job of making the complex things easy, or a lot (and I mean a *lot*) of time trying to design something easy and flexible.

I just feel my time is better spent on doing things I'm good at rather than those I am not.

Regards

Pete

[guenseli]

Ok, I understand your explainings.

But I don't think it would just help one or two folks.

I have written the last weeks a little bit in my "homeforum" about FSUIPC (just positive of course ;-) )

And a few people asked me how to do that or this and wondered, that this is possible with FSUIPC.

And I say that nearly everything is possible with FSUIPC.

I think the main reason is that the most people don't read the manual and beside this they fear about "programming" the *.inf

The most people, I think, are just setting up FSUIPC via the ingame dialog and can't imagine how powerful the rest of the programm could be!

But I understand your point of view and I respect your work very much!!!

You'll do great job with FSUIPC and helped me very much with your tool to enjoy FSX a far more.

[Pete Dowson]

But I don't think it would just help one or two folks.

Well, maybebut a problem at present would be to find time to re-design the existing dialogue just to fit another option in, even just for one conditional button. If i have to make the dialogue page bigger it affects all of the pages and they all need more work. It is a much bigger job than it may look to you. If I could relegate some of the options to another page, maybe. For instance, split the assignment to key presses from the assignment to controls (separate pages). But this makes assigning say a keypress for "press" and a control for "release" impossible, or extremely difficult.

Don't forget, with just one condition you have to have twice the space, because there could be twice the number of actions per button. And some folks have more than one condition -- each one doubles it.

And then why give preference to this feature? What about all of the cases where folks want a button press to do several actions, or the same one repeated several times? According to the feedback I get here I would say this is probably more common. To accommodate that on the same page I have to allow a list of controls or keypresses, or both mixed. And all of this for one or more conditions.

And how are the conditions expressed? By pressing another button, or by giving the button number? Button numbers aren't easy without FSUIPC scanning them and showing them, so it would have to have a subscan in the middle of a normal scan.

And then there are the Button Flags -- used in conditions probably just as much as the direct button press itself, as you can use the button flag to signify the condition is "latched" -- multiple flags allow one button to cycle all the others through several different modes. How would i deal with that on Screen in an easy to understand dialogue?

From feedback over the years all of these things are just as important as each other. I couldn't embark upon a design for a dialogue without taking all of these things into account, and really the mind boggles at the thought.

Now, if someone good at designing dialogues which make complex things look simple would volunteer a design, I would certainly consider it, even if it meant having a button on the Buttons page saying "go to BIG options page" which draws a larger dialogue, or possible runs a "Wizard" to get the settings done by questions and answers.

Regards

Pete