UTTERLY LOST WITH CONTROL ASSIGNMENTS

[SimSamurai]

I have just built a new PC with 2 hard drives. Window 7 x64 RC.

I set Windows 7 theme to Classic

I installed the sim on a separate drive; F: Program Files\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator 9. (F drive is also formatted to 64k clusters size)

I installed the 9.1 patch

I installed No-CD FS9.exe swap.

I installed my 3 CH controllers - Yoke, Pedals, Throttle.

I set sim to run in Windows XP SP2 mode

I fired up sim, checked controllers, all worked..closed sim.

I installed FSUIPC 3.93 freeware.

I decided to purchase registration...did so, then re-ran installer.

I Fired up sim, opened utility, pressed SET DEFAULT (as directed)..then closed utility.

I then noticed all my CH Controllers stopped working...I had to unplug/replug them in..why?

I lost all custom assignments for them too. :(

Do I need to delete all the stock / default assignments in FS before I can assign functions to the controllers via FSUIPC? ---In short I particularly want the Throttle controlled by FSUIPC for the Thrust reverse / feather / mix cut detents issue. I am also building dual mechanical yokes and a trim wheel so these three potentiometers while pluggled into a Desktop Aviator 2090 USB board will need to be calibrated and controlled by FSUIPC as will about 10-20 momentaries I will add in a month or two. The manual has alot of pontification without any basic examples of how to set all this up nor any basic 1,2,3 checklists to get it done so any handwalked help and guidance is appreciated!

I also have 6 units from GoFlight..I assume I will just let their controller utility handle their hardware as is recommended in the manual..but what of all the rest..AND HOW?

Some set-up examples would be VERY helpful as would examples of how to set up proflies for different aircraft type..single engine, multi, jets, helo, 3-engine, etc. Again, the profiles are thouroughly discussed in overly confusing detail....but all without key file examples..just my 2 cents. Thanks.

[Pete Dowson]

I Fired up sim, opened utility, pressed SET DEFAULT (as directed)..then closed utility.

I then noticed all my CH Controllers stopped working...I had to unplug/replug them in..why?

I lost all custom assignments for them too. :(

Until and unless you actually use FSUIPC to make assignments, calibrations, and so on, it isn't doing anything. merely installing it will install it with default settings anyway -- all pressing set Defaults does is return all the weather and miscellaneous options to default, it doesn't touch any controls and anyway if you've only just installed and registered it it won't have any.

It is most certainly nothing whatsoever to do with FSUIPC that FS (or more likely Windows) wanted you to unplug and replug your controllers. I suspect that is related to Windows power management on the USB sockets -- unless you turn that off, Windows removes power from USB devices which haven't been used for a while.

Do I need to delete all the stock / default assignments in FS before I can assign functions to the controllers via FSUIPC?

It depends what you want to do. You can assign everything in FS and merely calibrate the axes in FSUIPC. You can assign buttons in FSUIPC, but then make sure you don't have the same buttons assigned in FS -- else they'll do both things.

Or you can opt to use FSUIPC for everything, in which can you disable all (or selected) controllers in FS altogether, and assign both buttons and axes in FSUIPC. You still do the calibrations in the same way.

It is a little more efficient doing it all through FSUIPC, and more flexible too as there are more options, but it is a big step. Perhaps try just calibration first.

---In short I particularly want the Throttle controlled by FSUIPC for the Thrust reverse / feather / mix cut detents issue. I am also building dual mechanical yokes and a trim wheel so these three potentiometers while pluggled into a Desktop Aviator 2090 USB board will need to be calibrated and controlled by FSUIPC as will about 10-20 momentaries I will add in a month or two. The manual has alot of pontification without any basic examples of how to set all this up nor any basic 1,2,3 checklists to get it done so any handwalked help and guidance is appreciated!

Pontification? It states facts, and provides pictures and even gives a step -by-step guide to exactly how to do the things you want to do.

I also have 6 units from GoFlight..I assume I will just let their controller utility handle their hardware as is recommended in the manual..but what of all the rest..AND HOW?

I'm sorry if you don't understand anything, but it really sounds as if you are simply not applying any patience. I cannot explain things here in greater detail than in the manual. There is MUCH MUCH more room in the manual for the help you need, and it is ALL there, believe me! I see no point in reproducing parts here.

Perhaps you should have read it and made sure you understood it at least a little before you purchased it? All the information was available to you beforehand, after all.

I don't mind helping out with specific questions, and I have always done so, but coming here and asking for a complete new manual written the way you want it is just not on. Sorry. Try a little harder, please, and ask specific questions when you have some. If you want to do clever things you need to be a little bit clever. If you want to do easy things, it is easy.

Pete

[SimSamurai]

Thanks for the fast reply, I have no doubts all the information I need is in there. Its just that on your side of the sphere it all makes sense and on my side it makes none so Im sorry if I came of frustrated...but I am. I am a very visual learner and often glaze over when reading text I cannot grasp. I often feel real smart people like you have a difficult time making things more simple for stupid people like me! I guess I often bite off more than I can chew too..but attempt to chew it non the less.

I know I will love FSUIPC as soon as I can grasp how to program everything as I would rather program the 3 CH Products controllers through it. I actually do a lot of panel design too and have a pretty nice two seat cockpit hence the big step up into the registered version. I was immediately happy that you have options to fix the autopilot issue when using an axis for trim as I had tried that before and found that aircraft could not hold altitude when the trim was axis assigned so huge thanks there! I have just built a pilot/copilot trim wheel with 2:1 ratio gears (two wheel turns for the 1 pot rotation) and am glad to know this will now work through FSUIPC. The rest.... well, I'll keep at it. Thanks for all the help.

Jeff

[Pete Dowson]

The rest.... well, I'll keep at it.

Well, please, if you try following the steps or try to understand a section, and reach a point where you are stuck, please do ask. I like specific questions as it helps make warranted improvements to the documentation. This is how it got to where it is now. If you think it is bad now, you should have seen it ten years ago, with the early versions! The fact that it has reached such a ridiculous size is not just because of the addition of facilities but much more as a result of folks asking questions I didn't realise would be asked, and then me adding those answers into the document.

Maybe that isn't the best way to write documentation, but it is a practical one for a technically oriented person.

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

I just read through the recent lengthy post of assigining thrust reverse /feathering/mix cut. ...but see that it all applies to FSX. Will the same tutorial work for FS9? With my last PC build I properly set the detent vaules in CHCM (so that much I know how to do) and in the past was just using two of the center momenataries (# 6 and #8) to engage reverse thrust. The throttle detents just became throttle idle in that case but the feathering still worked and the mix cut still worked in detent all without the registered FSUIPC. I had figured that purchasing FSUIPC would take the CHCM out of the equation entirely...is this not the case ??? So it appears I need to set the detents in CHCM again..correct?

Has anyone out of the 144 pages of threads published a single code file to share these axes and detent assignments for FSUIPC? ...and if not...why not? I too do not really want to spend a year figuring all this out as many people have said in these threads. I would think that once someone found the optimal solution for the 6 axes and 6 detent assignments they would share it (as the thread I mentioed above actually does for FSX...but then the thread STILL goes on with three more pages of "if and or buts") --- which only makes one again..second guess everything. I say this from a "consumer" mind set.

if these "most common" assignments could just become a simple download file on something like RapidShare with instructions on how to cut and paste the code assignments into the code file it could really help alot of people move on. Instead it seems this longstanding issue is still something that has to be endlessly researched in the manuals or forum just as I have been doing for a few days now to no avail. Knowing that this has been such a huge issue for so many people with using the CH throttles I am quite suprised to see a continued lack of "concrete" resolutions. I understand that the momentaries are of course assigned to each persons taste but I would think the 6 axis assignments and detents would be routine and commonplace knowledge across the board and therefore I am suprised there isn't some immediate download file for it. (or is there already and I missed it somehow?) Forgive me for perhaps being a whiner who wants it all "now" ...without all the legwork but yes....that would be great!

[Pete Dowson]

I just read through the recent lengthy post of assigining thrust reverse /feathering/mix cut. ...but see that it all applies to FSX. Will the same tutorial work for FS9?

Which one is that? On this Forum, do you mean?

There is no difference in the way the facilities for calibrating work between FSUIPC3 and FSUIPC4. Basically, if you only have one lever of each (throttle, prop pitch, mixture), then to enable a reverse range you check the "4 to 4 xxxx" on the first calibration page, then go to the pages dedicated to each class of control (each has 4 slots, for up to 4 engines), and simply calibrate the first one, at top left. With one lever and the mapping selected, the other three will mimic that first one in any case. You would see that if you bothered to try it.

The process for calibrating with a forward, centre/idle and reverse range is in fact just following the simple numbered steps provided in the FSUIPC user Guide, in the section about calibration.

I think also that you are currently mixing up "assignment" with the other things you want to do. If you get that straightened out in your mind perhaps you will be less confused. How you assign your axes is not directly related to how you then use them -- the latter is to do with calibrating them to achieve your desires. To start with simply use the normal FS assignment and go straight to the Joysticks tab in FSUIPC.

With my last PC build I properly set the detent vaules in CHCM (so that much I know how to do) and in the past was just using two of the center momenataries (# 6 and #8) to engage reverse thrust. The throttle detents just became throttle idle in that case but the feathering still worked and the mix cut still worked in detent all without the registered FSUIPC. I had figured that purchasing FSUIPC would take the CHCM out of the equation entirely...is this not the case ??? So it appears I need to set the detents in CHCM again..correct?

Sorry, i know nothing whatsoever about CHCM, but judging by other posts here folks either like it and use it or discard it and use FSUIPC instead. I suspect it makes matters far too complicated to use both, and maybe inefficient too.

Has anyone out of the 144 pages of threads published a single code file to share these axes and detent assignments for FSUIPC?

What's a "code file"? Do you mean INI file settings, for cutting and pasting?

Sorry, everyone's needs are different. FSUIPC is like a Swiss Army knife, a multi-tool for use as you wish. And there are nearly as many ways of doing things, with almost as many hardware configurations, as there are users. I cannot see how anyone's settings can simply be transferred to anyone else's setup. Even the calibration points won't be consistent -- I've been told that even two identical throttle quadrants calibrate differently (these were from Saitek, but i don't think CH are any more consistent).

In my opinion trying to understand and apply rather weird looking parameters made for one system to a different one would cause more headaches and confusion and questions than just following the really simple instructions and doing it yourself. The parameters are made for efficient understanding by computer program, not by humans. The human interface is represented by the on-screen options dialogues, and they are clearly explained in the User Guide, with pictures and numbered steps. Okay, there are lots of options, but the reader can select the ones which apply to him. They've all grown out of user requests after all. And many thousands of users seem to be able to understand things.

In the end, if you were getting on fine with CHCM and don't understand FSUIPC at all, as you seem to be saying, why on Earth are you bothering to even try? I don't understand. If you like it, use it, if not don't.

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

Ok..Pete! Perhaps I opened my big mouth too soon...admittedly it is my fatal flaw - However I realllly think you could save alot of keystrokes with frustrated blokes like me if you'd post the massive bullet point checklist I just finished writing. I had found the old John Cook .PDF which helped IMMENSLY with controller assignments becauase he goes down the list pretty much A-Z for controller assignments using the CH Products hardware and FSUIPC as a stand alone for assignments which is exactly what I was wanting. I am totally sorry if I offended you or ruffled your feathers mate but becauase of what you do and the level of expertice you are on I just could not easily grasp what was going on until it was spelled out for me step by step in a simpler manner which I feel is what the John Cook manual provides...but even then he actually skips over some steps here and there leaves some guesswork. SO...once into that PDF I actually retyped his 11 page tutorial into a more concise simplified 75 point line item checklist and then assigned most everything amongst all 3 controllers within an hour. Save for a few button assignments I am quite saitsfied. I be happy to post my checklist or send it to you for review.

However, I could not find the commands for the "Cycle views forward" and "cycle views backward" as these were tytpcially assigned to the two left red buttons on the CH yoke. I'd like to assign them there via FSUIPC as I have disabled my FS joystick function. So please give me a directional steer if you can as I'd like to keep the cycle views function..even if I could only assign it to one direction that is fine.

Lastly I did disable my joysticks, am only using FSUIPC for the CH Yoke, Pedals, and Throttle, and did not need any use for the CHCM. (So Im still wondering why other people said that was the only way to get the detents to work..) As far as the .ini file, yes, I was calling it code..(as I assume in some essence that is what it is) I have a question for that as well. Can I crack open that file or another one to text edit any values such as for example hand tweaking the numercial values of the detent spacinging so as to make them all uniform across all 6 throttle levers?

FOR INSTANCE IF A THROTTLE LEVER SETTING EQUALS = POSITION A = 16383(max thrust), B = -13440(idle top), C = -12440(idle low), D = -16383(max reverse)

IS THERE AN INI FILE WHERE YOU COULD EDIT THESE TO 16383, 13450, 12400, -16383 ...so as to widen the detent values a little and make them all match? (or am I getting too picky now?)

Thanks for all the help. - Jeff.

[polarair]

Jeff,

Can you post the 75point list, maybe it can help other simmers with installing there CH hardware

[Pete Dowson]

I had found the old John Cook .PDF which helped IMMENSLY with controller assignments becauase he goes down the list pretty much A-Z for controller assignments using the CH Products hardware and FSUIPC as a stand alone for assignments which is exactly what I was wanting.

Is that the document for which there's a link provided in the "sticky" thread entitled "FSUIPC Guide for CH Users" near the top of this Forum? If so, then, sorry, but I thought that would be the first place you'd go if you had specific CH questions. That's why it was made "sticky".

If that isn't the one, can you clarify, please?

I actually retyped his 11 page tutorial into a more concise simplified 75 point line item checklist and then assigned most everything amongst all 3 controllers within an hour. Save for a few button assignments I am quite saitsfied. I be happy to post my checklist or send it to you for review.

That's very kind of you. Yes. If you like I could host in on the same server as the Updates and Goodies (the top Announcement in the Forum), and then I could actually list it in the Goodies section, or, if you like, you could do the same as the "FSUIPC Guide for CH Users" -- post a message with some explanatory words and provide the link I shall give you, and I would then make the post sticky. You can send the PDF for me to upload to petedowson@btconnect.com.

However, I could not find the commands for the "Cycle views forward" and "cycle views backward"

Which keystroke are they? You can always assign keystrokes, of course, but there are these FS controls which are better and avoid possible problems should a user reassign keys or have a program which needs them:

Normally 'S' in FS9 = VIEW MODE

Normally "shift S" in FS9 = VIEW MODE REV

Normally "W" in FS9 = PANEL HUD TOGGLE

For future reference, if you ever want to know the name of an FS control but do know how to activate it via the keyboard or an existing button assignment, just go to FSUIPC's Logging tab and enable Event logging (or Axis logging if it is an axis control). Then activate the control, and look in the Log file (FSUIPC.LOG, in the Modules folder, for FS9). There will be a line in there which gives the control number (from the reference list) plus the parameter (normally zero) and the Name, at the end, like this:

*** EVENT: Ctrl=, PARAM = ,

The FS name is the one used, with _ replaced by spaces and mostly changed to lower case, in the FSUIPC assignment drop-downs.

As far as the .ini file, yes, I was calling it code..(as I assume in some essence that is what it is) I have a question for that as well. Can I crack open that file or another one to text edit any values such as for example hand tweaking the numercial values of the detent spacinging so as to make them all uniform across all 6 throttle levers?

Yes, you can edit the INI file by hand. You can get changes reloaded by FSUIPC without restarting FS -- just go to the relevant options tab and click the "Reload" button. In fact it is best if you have the relevant options page in view whilst you are looking for the parameters and editing them, so you can match things properly.

Many of the parameter sections are documented in the Advanced User's guide. In particular there's a lot of space in there given to the Buttons assignments, because you can do a lot of clever things of a programming nature with those -- conditional actions on buttons, and so on. There's an example provided by a user of how to use the same set of buttons several times according to a state set by other buttons, and so on.

There's currently no special explanation of the joystick calibration section as really the method of using the buttons in the dialogue is good enough. I've never seen anyone have a need to mess in there, though you can -- the parameters should be easy enough to understand, relating them to the values you see on screen.

FOR INSTANCE IF A THROTTLE LEVER SETTING EQUALS = POSITION A = 16383(max thrust), B = -13440(idle top), C = -12440(idle low), D = -16383(max reverse)

IS THERE AN INI FILE WHERE YOU COULD EDIT THESE TO 16383, 13450, 12400, -16383 ...so as to widen the detent values a little and make them all match? (or am I getting too picky now?)

They are all in the one INI file -- there's only one! ALL your FSUIPC settings are in the one file. However, I think you are still misunderstanding something. If you make the numbers match it is very likely then that the levers will not be calibrated to work together. Every axis is slightly different -- I'd be most surprised if they are identical in the values they give for the same positions. The whole point of calibrating each separately, and by actual physical position, is to use the actual numbers that the actual hardware is providing!

If everything always provided the same numbers for the same relative positions, calibration would never be needed and the software (FS or FSUIPC) could assume fixed values for all the numbers. Real life isn't like that.

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

I'd be happy to post my work as I just had to re-use it myself after taking a nose dive in the 172. :)

Because I havent been able to reassign the cycle views keys yet I couldn't see my control sufaces. I've seemed to map everything else fine but the ailerons. I've tried it again twice now with no luck. I got the pitch fine though with the same method so what am I missing with the roll ?. Does it matter which side you turn the yoke to then set MAX or MIN ? (left or right first?) ..same with pitch elevator...does it really matter i.e; should you press full forward for setting the MAX and pull aft for setting MIN? I don't think your manual or the Cook manual says anything about that.

I can't remember what I did but again my elevator works fine, Im just without roll or rather I just rolled over! As soon as this is ironed out I will snap my checklist into a .PDF or if Pete is ok with it (after his more formal review) I could post it into a new thread. I really think its a big help anyway especially for noobs like myself. It definitely gets you going fast.

So Pete, ...cycle views assignments and roll axes assignment / calibration..what'd I miss?

MY CHECKLIST EXCERPT;

CONFIGURING THE CH YOKE AXES VIA FSUIPC UTILITY :

#60 -- TO START CONFIGURING THE CH YOKE RETURN TO THE "AXIS ASSIGNMENT" TAB.

#61 -- JUST LIKE AS YOU DID IN STEP #28 PRESS RESCAN WHILE YOU PUSH AND PULL YOUR YOKE FULLY FORWARD AND AFT. (ELEVATOR PITCH MOVEMENT)

#62 -- NOW SELECT THE "SEND DIRECT TO FSUIPC CALIBRATION" UNDER THE 'TYPE OF ACTION REQUIRED', CHECK THE FIRST BOX, AND SPECIFY "ELEVATOR" IN THE DROPDOWN.

#63 -- NOW TURN (ROLL) THE YOKE FULLY SIDE TO SIDE, AND PRESS RESCAN. (WINGS AIELRONS ROLL MOVEMENT)

#64 -- NOW SELECT THE "SEND DIRECT TO FSUIPC CALIBRATION" UNDER THE 'TYPE OF ACTION REQUIRED, CHECK THE FIRST BOX, AND SPECIFY "AILERON" IN THE DROPDOWN.

#65 -- NOW THAT THE PITCH AND ROLL AXES ARE ASSIGNED CLICK ON THE JOYSTICK CALIBRATION TAB AND SELECT PAGE "1 of 11 : Main Flight Controls".

#66 -- HIT THE AILERONS SET BUTTON. THEN ROLL THE YOKE FULLY LEFT, PRESS 'SET' UNDER MINIMUM, ROLL THE YOKE FULLY RIGHT AND PRESS 'SET' UNDER MAX COLUMN.

#67 -- NOW CENTER THE YOKE. ROLL IT LEFT ABOUT 1 CM AND PRESS 'SET' UNDER THE CENTRE COLUMN, THEN ROLL THE YOKE RIGHT 1 CM AND PRESS 'SET' AGAIN.

#68 -- NOW PRESS THE ELEVATOR SET BUTTON. THEN PUSH THE YOKE FULLY FORWARD, PRESS 'SET' UNDER MINIMUM, THEN PULL THE YOKE FULLY AFT AND PRESS 'SET' UNDER MAX COLUMN.

#69 -- NOW CENTER THE YOKE. PUSH IT FORWARD ABOUT 1 CM AND PRESS 'SET' UNDER THE CENTRE COLUMN, THEN PULL THE YOKE REARWARD APPROXIMATELY 1 CM AND PRESS 'SET' AGAIN.

NOTE : IN BOTH CASES OF CENTERING THE ROLL AND PITCH THE 1CM SQUARE YOU ARE EFFECTIVELY CREATING IS A DEAD ZONE FOR THE CENTER POSITION. THIS IS BECAUSE THE CH YOKE WHILE

EFFECTIVE DOES NOT HAVE THE BEST INTERNAL COMPONENTS OR SPRING TENSION TO RETURN THE YOKE TO THE EXACT CENTER EACH TIME. THEREFORE THIS LARGER AREA CREATED

BECOMES A CENTRAL DEAD ZONE WHERE BOTH THE AILERONS AND ELEVATOR WILL REMAIN NEUTRAL. THUS HAVING A SMALL DEAD ZONE WILL HELP YOUR AIRCRAFT TO FLY STRAIGHTER.

NOTE : You are done with the yoke axis assignments and calibration. We will assign the 12 momentary toggle switches, the 8-way hat switch, and the 3 other axes later.

...did I miss any steps in here?

[Pete Dowson]

Because I havent been able to reassign the cycle views keys yet I couldn't see my control sufaces.

But you've assigned them now, right?

Does it matter which side you turn the yoke to then set MAX or MIN ? (left or right first?)

Not really, though FSUIPC won't let you set the minimum to a higher value than the maximum and of course the centre values must be in between. The normal thing to do is assign the minimum (the most negative), then the centre values, then the maximum (most positive) -- but only because this is the most logical. It isn't a "left" or "right" business as which is left and right numerically speaking is arbitrarily chosen by the simulator. Just look at the INput number so you can see which way it is changing.

I don't think your manual or the Cook manual says anything about that.

The manual gives numbered steps for the most logical order. It sounds like you've not looked at it yet! :-( . Surely I don't have to reproduce it all here? Please please PLEASE go to the Joystick Calibration chapter: it tells you all this stuff there! I don't understand how you can be so critical of my work when you obviously haven't even looked at it! The numbered steps follow the statement "Now, to calibrate any axis, just do this:".

:-(

So Pete, ...cycle views assignments and roll axes assignment / calibration..what'd I miss?

My last reply for the first, and the FSUIPC User Guide, evidently, for the second.

Pete

[SimSamurai]

Ok, I got the ailerons worked out. I also assigned my spoilers to the first lever of the CH yoke and reversed them so that they engage when pulled towards you. (this was how I set it up in FS) ..the other two are flaps (reversed) and trim. With using the CH throttle it is a good set up. After having calibrated things with FSUIPC the thrust reversers work GREAT too..love it!...and frees up two other momentaries.

Thanks for the views call ( S & W) ,..thats what I was looking for. I though the assignment in FS9 is "cycle views" (for S).

The only last issue I am having is with the 8 way hat switch... I programmed it exactly as J Cooks tutorial but it does not really work like the default FS style does. I do however like the "snap to center" feature of the most forward position BUT the panning motion is much jerkier than the default FS panning. (its not my PC, ..new quad 9550..and 4gigs 2000mhz ram) -- I know there is a way to speed this pan rate up in the FS master config but I forgot how. If you know of the weak off hand please let me know otherwise Im sure I can find that tweak eslewhere.

Thanks for all the advice. I will send you a copy of my configuration checklist this weekend once I've finsihed off all my assignments and calibrations so you can tell me if it holds altitude. I wouldn't want to post anything that might have a few things out of place.

Jeff

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks for the views call ( S & W) ,..thats what I was looking for. I though the assignment in FS9 is "cycle views" (for S).

The names FS gives things in the dialogues hardly ever looks the same as their internal names for them. FSUIPC doesn't know the names or the numbers by itself, it just gets the complete table, names and numbers, from FS's "CONTROLS.DLL", where they are defined. The names in the dialogues will of course be different in different language versions -- the internal names don't change, and mostly haven't changed (except for many additions) since FS98 days.

The only last issue I am having is with the 8 way hat switch... I programmed it exactly as J Cooks tutorial but it does not really work like the default FS style does. I do however like the "snap to center" feature of the most forward position BUT the panning motion is much jerkier than the default FS panning.

This is with FS9, isn't it? I forget now. If so, yes, unfortunately the FSUIPC treatment of the POV devices is now different from FS's. (POV = "point of view", the Microsoft name. "Hat" is the name I think first used by Thrustmaster -- or possibly by an Air Force somewhere ). In FS9 FSUIPC uses the original Windows API for joysticks, which is nice and simply and very efficient. When FSUIPC was written, FS also used this interface -- and both treated the Hat as a set of 8 buttons, with the result you see. For looking out of different windows etc it is fine -- that's what it was intended for really, at that time, and that is what still suits a lot of cockpit builders where they relate things to their built cockpit windows.

"Smooth panning" has become more significant with virtual cockpits, which are of course relatively new. FS now uses DirectInput, and this allows POVs to be used as Axes as well as or instead of a set of buttons. When re-writing FSUIPC for FSX I changed over the axis scanning to use DirectInput (ugh! what a horrible interface) -- but left the buttons scanning as it was, for better efficiency. So, in FSUIPC4, for FSX, you can assign a Hat as an axis or as a set of 8 buttons (or even both). When assigned as an axis, you can assign it to "PAN VIEW", which is what FS does. And that's smoother.

Thanks for all the advice. I will send you a copy of my configuration checklist this weekend once I've finsihed off all my assignments and calibrations so you can tell me if it holds altitude. I wouldn't want to post anything that might have a few things out of place.

Okay. Thanks.

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

The last two items im trying to find now are assigning the NAV/GPS toggle switch to either my CH yoke or to a button on the GoFlight RP48 (4 rotary / 8 pushbutton module) Unfortunately it doesn't seem that the GoFlight assignment utility has this in their assignment list. (and I am using their latest rev of course) I saw that you too made a utility for GoFlight... you sure do get around Pete! A freind and I were having a chuckle last night saying that the illuminati society probably keeps you well hidden in a bunker somewhere from which you control the entire world via your programs and .DLL files! (If you said yes, I would believe it) Anyway the two last assignments I'm hoping to make are a momentary toggle for NAV/GPS switching and an IDENT button for the transponder. I use VATSIM alot with FSInn and IDENT in particular is impossible to accomplish without a mouse click on the FSInn Control Manager interface. I have set up my transponder tuning function on one of my two GoFlight GF166A's but again could not find any IDENT toggle within their assignment list. Ideally I would like both the NAV/GPS toggle and the IDENT toggle on the RP48. If your FSUIPC GoFlight utility for CAN do this then CAN I just use it for the RP48 alone?

[Pete Dowson]

The last two items im trying to find now are assigning the NAV/GPS toggle switch to either my CH yoke or to a button on the GoFlight RP48 (4 rotary / 8 pushbutton module) Unfortunately it doesn't seem that the GoFlight assignment utility has this in their assignment list. (and I am using their latest rev of course) I saw that you too made a utility for GoFlight.

Button, switch and dial support for Goflight is built into FSUIPC, provided you have the GoFlight driver, GFDev.dll, installed or accessible to FSUIPC. If you installed their drivers it should be automatically accessible, unless they've changed things. If not, there's a copy in the "Updates and Goodies" Announcement above. If you are using FSX you can put it into the FSX Modules folder. For FS9 you must not do that -- put it in the Windows folder.

The only utility i did for GF devices was "GFdisplay", for switching the LEDs on or off and displaying values on the digital displays. But that certainly isn't user-friendly I'm afraid, it involves some programming type work by the user.

Anyway the two last assignments I'm hoping to make are a momentary toggle for NAV/GPS switching and an IDENT button for the transponder.

The NAV/GPS switch is in the drop-down for sure. As I think I mentioned, yuo can find the names of these things by using the logging -- that's how I find them. Alternatively just do a word search on the List of controls documents I supply. From memory I think it's called TOGGLE GPS DRIVES NAV1, and a search on "GPS" would certainly find it anyway.

The transponder isn't well supported in FS -- you can only set and change its number. There's no IDENT nor MODE controls as FS doesn't simulate them. The on-line programs do their own thing with those -- you'll need to find out how to operate them in FSInn. It's really the only thing that has stopped me on-line flying, because Squawkbox 4, the version for FSX, doesn't provide any way for a hardware transponder with mode and ident switches to be used -- not even keyboard shortcuts. If FSInn has a keyboard shortcut for it, you can assign that in FSUIPC of course.

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

I am using FS9 exclusively. (for many reasons Im sure you know much better than I do!) This is also becuase I run 5 monitor outputs (4 for instruments on LCDs and one to an overhead projector for may main view) all on one rubust PC. I don't see FSX being able to handle that and consistently give me +30 FPS in bad weather..in bad terrain...at sunset. FS9 however does it quite nicely. I have A LOT of virtual gauge activity going on as i build all my own custom panels. I also use alot of payware..mostly the whole suite from Reality XP and SimFlyer, Flight 1 Avidyne and soon the Mindstar G1000. --In regards to the last..do you know if the issues between their program and yours ever got resolved? I want to buy it but only if I can assume it will work ok with still using FSUIPC for my control assignments.

Secondly, Thanks for the heads up on the GFDev.dll driver. So for FS9 are you saying just drop this one file in the Windows folder alone...not dropped into any specific sub folder?

I will start investigating an FSInn keyboard shortcut for the IDENT. I don't know if you are aware of it but there was a final beta revision of FSInn that works on x64 systems and FSX. I sucessfully used FSInn with FSX on My XP x64 system last year. I think I had found the link to it in some other forum and for some reason at the time it was not availaible on the MCDU.com page which for now seems D-O-A.

I used Squawkbox for years but once I switched over to FSInn I never looked back, I really love it and is feature rich with the FS-Copilot add on. They have an ident feature which is attached to their "MODE C' activation on their main Control Panel interface. When active on Mode C you have a little green square and then you click it again for Orange which blinks IDENT for a few seconds. Works fine with the mouse...but I'd really like to assign it to a momentary! ....looks like we have a new challenge! --If you are interested in the FSinn version that works with x32/x64 and FSX let me know. I could put it up on RapidShare or mail it to you on a disc.

[Pete Dowson]

... and soon the Mindstar G1000. --In regards to the last..do you know if the issues between their program and yours ever got resolved?

Sorry, what issues were they? There was some exchange I had with the authors or publishers quite a while back, helping them with something, but I don't recall the details.

Secondly, Thanks for the heads up on the GFDev.dll driver. So for FS9 are you saying just drop this one file in the Windows folder alone...not dropped into any specific sub folder?

Well, it needs to be somewhere where it is accessible to FSUIPC. You can't put it in with FSUIPC, because if it is there FS will try to load it. If you've installed the GoFlight software for your devices, it should already be installed and accessible in the same folder as the GFConfig program, the one you use to configure the GoFlight drivers. There should then also be a registry link to GFConfig, and FSUIPC uses that to find the DLL. But if you've been in FSUIPC's Buttons & Switches options, and operated any of the GoFlight switches without them being detected by FSUIPC, then possibly GF have changed what they install for you. Have you tried at all? If not, do so first.

I will start investigating an FSInn keyboard shortcut for the IDENT. I don't know if you are aware of it but there was a final beta revision of FSInn that works on x64 systems and FSX. I sucessfully used FSInn with FSX on My XP x64 system last year.

I'd only be interested in FSInn if they have a method of driving things like PTT, Transponder mode and ident without mouse use and without Windows coming on top of FS -- I only have the scenery projected on a 10 foot screen viewed out of the cockpit windows and I don't want any unrealistic displays there. I'd also want FSInn running on a separate PC (to my extreme left, out of normal eyeshot), just as Squawkbox can be run, because that's where my cockpit headset intercom is connected (currently for Radar Contact and Its Your Plane). There are three separate sound systems in my cockpit.

I used Squawkbox for years but once I switched over to FSInn I never looked back, I really love it and is feature rich with the FS-Copilot add on. They have an ident feature which is attached to their "MODE C' activation on their main Control Panel interface. When active on Mode C you have a little green square and then you click it again for Orange which blinks IDENT for a few seconds. Works fine with the mouse...but I'd really like to assign it to a momentary! ....looks like we have a new challenge! --If you are interested in the FSinn version that works with x32/x64 and FSX let me know. I could put it up on RapidShare or mail it to you on a disc.

Thanks. I might be interested if it can be used with no window or gauge on FS, and can be run on a networked PC.

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

Well I hope this is good news for you.... I have previously mapped FSInn's PTT key to the front left button of my yoke and it worked perfectly. However I have not checked it yet with this build nor since having FSUIPC manage my joystick assignments. Im hoping FSInn will still have control of the PTT as I did not assign it to anything else in FSUIPC and had deleted the original assignment in FS (and has also disabled the FS joystick function..so we'll see...Im keeping my fingers crossed) I will definitely let you know. I also found out how to map FSInns IDENT function to a keyboard key and mapped it to my left control key tonight.

Im also hoping (and assuming) that if FSUIPC can then map any assigned key function to a joystick switch then perhaps the problem is solved. At worst the ident and or PTT is still assigned to a keyboard key and is thus not mouse dependant.

If all this gells out and works with FSUIPC and is something even you, oh wise one, were not aware of I will feel quite happy if I in fact have taught YOU something! if it all works I will add all this info into the set-up tutorial I will send you. The truth is I have written a 250 page book about advanced flight simulation and getting FSUIPC was a last step into an area yet explored for me. I also installed Windows 7 as I wanted to be one of the first folks to report on functionality with all this stuff in the new O.S. --- so far so good! I am printing off another round of books this week and would be happy to send you a complimentary copy.

Maybe after some reading/review you can also offer up any suggestions on how to make it better. AVSIM is going to be reviewing it this coming month and their review editor Robert Whitwell is going to build the sim staion shell I sell. (I sell blueprints and complete kits.) I dont know what you use as far as an enclosure but it sounds like you've also got quite the home cockpit on your hands. I too use a DLP projector for my main view and use 4 LCD's for instruments. The station shell I have can also accomdate all exterior views via LCDs. Anyway... please come check out me out at www.simsamurai.net ! -- Jeff

[SimSamurai]

P.S. as far as running FSInn on a networked PC rather than then main one I have no idea. Im sure you can. As far as the windows go the main FSInn "control panel" is quite small and can be closed without you disconnecting from VATSIM. I have a complete FSInn tutorial in my book that tells you how to set it all up. I typically keep just the small control panel and ATC window open and drag them over to a small LCD right above my throttle quadrant. Again they can be closed if needed so there is no interference. You'll see in my videos. All my displays are also run by one PC. Eventually I will have one PC for the 4 instrument panel LCD's (the one I have just built) and will then network just one more PC with WidevieW to run the 5 exterior views (1 projector, 4 side views) All with FS9, high settings, and +40 FPS.

[Pete Dowson]

Well I hope this is good news for you.... I have previously mapped FSInn's PTT key to the front left button of my yoke and it worked perfectly. However I have not checked it yet with this build nor since having FSUIPC manage my joystick assignments. Im hoping FSInn will still have control of the PTT as I did not assign it to anything else in FSUIPC and had deleted the original assignment in FS (and has also disabled the FS joystick function..so we'll see...Im keeping my fingers crossed) I will definitely let you know. I also found out how to map FSInns IDENT function to a keyboard key and mapped it to my left control key tonight.

What about the transponder mode? ATC normally requires that your transponder be on standby until near takeoff under Tower control, as otherwise, on the ground, there are too many blips. Squawkbox requires you to be able to switch between standby and mode C or whatever (on with alt encoding). I have those switches but currently they only affect the offsets which the old Squawkbox 3 was using.

Im also hoping (and assuming) that if FSUIPC can then map any assigned key function to a joystick switch then perhaps the problem is solved.

No need to just hope. That's the whole point of the left-hand side of the Buttons and Switches tab in the options.

If all this gells out and works with FSUIPC and is something even you, oh wise one, were not aware of I will feel quite happy if I in fact have taught YOU something!

I've not been investigating FSInn because all my friends who fly on-line use Squawkbox, and so that was what I had intended to use. That allows inter-user chats too on the Private connection (a separate PTT). Unfortunately my pleas for the authors to provide a way of operating the transponder, to batch what they did with SB3, seemed to fall on deaf ears.

if it all works I will add all this info into the set-up tutorial I will send you.

Okay, thanks, but keep it relatively separate, please.

The truth is I have written a 250 page book about advanced flight simulation and getting FSUIPC was a last step into an area yet explored for me. I also installed Windows 7 as I wanted to be one of the first folks to report on functionality with all this stuff in the new O.S. --- so far so good! I am printing off another round of books this week and would be happy to send you a complimentary copy.

That's very kind of you! Thanks. Please email me (petedowson@btconnect.com) and I will give you my address.

I'm using Windows 7 RC Ultimate 64-bit -- and before that the final Beta. It's been really excellent. I have in on my two main simulation PCs (the 737 cockpit and my GA28R Piper Arrow), and also now on my main program development PC.

I dont know what you use as far as an enclosure but it sounds like you've also got quite the home cockpit on your hands.

Although I am okay at programming and even at wiring and soldering, my metal and woodworking skills are non-existent, and anything I try to build looks a mess. So I waited till I could afford a ready-built cockpit. Mine is the PFC 737NG cockpit (http://www.flypfc.com ) with a few modifications. I do the FS drivers for PFC equipment so I got a good discount, of course . That on its own houses 6 little PCs under its hood (PFD/ND pilot, EICAS, MCP, PFD/ND copilot, Left CDU, Right CDU all under Project Magenta control), then FSX runs on an external PC (Core i7-975 water-cooled at 4.5GHz), and there's another PC running ASA, Radar Contact, Its Your Plane, pmSystems, pmSounds, FSRealTime, AISmooth, AESremote and SA_WXR. So that's (at least) 8 PCs used for the one simulation. There's no panel in the FSX aircraft (just the basic flight model and body from the FS9 PMDG 737NG).

The screen is 10 feet wide with a 2000 Lumens LCD projector, running at its natural resolution of 1400 x 1050 but compressed to 16x9 widescreen. I would have used a Matrox Triplehead2Go for two more projectors for the side views, but the room is just not big enough, and it really isn't so important for me as I have severe tunnel vision out of my left eye and hardly any vision at all out of my right (deteriorating hereditary Retinitis Pigmentosa).

There's no keyboard or mouse accessible from within the cockpit, though I do use the ButtonScreen facility in Wideclient (part of WideFS) on two 7" touchscreens inside for selecting options in the various ancillary programs. They are duplicates via a VGA splitter and mounted to the sides, beneath the side windows.

The Piper Arrow III is an Aerosoft (Australia) complete analogue instrument cockpit (one of only 5 they made, apparently), driven by my own special driver, with an ordinary 32" LCD screen behind it. I use TrackIR5 with that one, for relaxing pottering about over VFR UK.

Anyway... please come check out me out at http://www.simsamurai.net ! -- Jeff

Okay, I will! Thanks.

Pete

[SimSamurai]

Wow, thats quite the insane set up! I don't think I would ever want to have to set up so many PCs for so many different tasks! Thats alot of software loading! I would think you could do all that with just 2 to 4 pc's espcially if they were all i7's. How is FSX working out for you in the frame rate department? I just haven't heard the best results with FSX even with the new i7 chips at high overclocks..even on just single montior PC's Alot of people say that even with the i7 they can barely get over 30-40 fps with high display settings. It sounds like you can push yours pretty far though with the 975 and water cooling.

My friend has an i7 920 chip with the EVGA 3x board overclocked to ~ 4.0ghz. He has two large LCD monitors set at 1680x1050 powerd by a single EVGA 285 2gb ram video card. He is running FS9 at all high settings and can hit around 250 fps. Thats what Im looking for too as I lose about 20fps for each window I undock to other monitors. You'll see what I mean on my website as I run 5 displays with just one PC.

All my instrument panels are full sized virtual ones that I made myself in FSPanel studio. I love doing it like that... I consider it an art form! I just use hardware controllers for the basic functions I guess. I really want to buy a tactile FMS and autopilot though. While it is perhaps a home hobbiest cockpit it sure does fly nice!

In regards to FSInn I did a test flight tonight in VATSIM from LOWI-LFLJ (Courcheval) in the default King Air 350. The PTT switched mapped to the front left button on my CH yoke via the FS-Inn set-up utility works fine as I was talking with a buddy on unicom with no problem. (All the rest on the yoke is still FSUIPC controlled) I also did several mike checks with ATC in the states earlier tonight.

I easily mapped the squawk ident function to the left control key of my keyboard. There is a "Settings" tab in the CoPilot drop down that allows you to assign any function to either your joystick or keyboard. It does have all the squawk modes available too for mapping such as standby and mode C. in fact I think you can map most everything with it. Lastly, when you log into VATSIM via FSinn you are always in the standby mode until you enable Mode C yourself. So yes...you can map all transponder functions to a keyboard or joystick buttons if you want and can enable them just like you would in reality.

As far as its chat features, the FSInn main Control Panel that is about 2" wide x 3" tall has a chat button that opens a chat window. I have to say that while FSInn (or Copilot rather) has alot it, it is quite easy to use once you get the basic things pre-set. You can (.msg) anyone and once you do it creates a tab for that person within the chat window..ATC controllers included. Thus you can have many chats going on with different people all at once if you want or need.

Im rewriting a specific tutorial for FSInn set-up now which is completely different from the FSUIPC one I am finishing out. The only FSInn set-up guide I found on VATSIM was sorely lacking in many, many respects so l just like John Cooks set-up effort for FSUIPC I went over the FSInn set-up tutorial with a finer tooth comb. I think I must just write fast! Once both are complete this week I will send you a copy of each.

In regards to FSUIPC I think I am wanting to re-enable my joystick function in FS and just use the default FS mappings for the yoke particularly because of the POV swicth functions. (its just too different from what Im used too and seems too choppy) If I do this though can I still use the FSUIPC for all the throttle and pedal mappings just so long as I delete their joystick assignments in FS? I hope so because I definitely love how FSUIPC has made my throttle quadrant come to life!

Jeff

[Pete Dowson]

Wow, thats quite the insane set up! I don't think I would ever want to have to set up so many PCs for so many different tasks! Thats alot of software loading!

The 6 PC's under the hood in the cockpit come as part of the cockpit. They are very small, and probably only 1-2 GHz Pentium 4's (I don't recall off-hand). The software loading is pretty much auomatic, including updates, using facilities which are part of Project Magenta. PM is designed specifically to work in this way for smoothness of operation. It is used in major professional training cockpits for just that reason.

I would think you could do all that with just 2 to 4 pc's espcially if they were all i7's.

Yes, and a higher cost and more complexity and even then probably not with the smoothness.

How is FSX working out for you in the frame rate department?

If I don't limit it it ranges from 40 to 160 most of the time, excepting at places like my UK2000 Heathrow with UT2 and MyTrafficX traffic both enabled -- I like a realistic amount of traffic! ;-) -- there it can drop to 20-25, or even a little less when AES is in full swing (but I am parked then, of course, so it doesn't matter). I have the FPS Limiter set to limit the rate to 30 fps, though, and that's fine.

If I use DX10 mode instead of DX9 I can get nearly double the frame rates, including at Heathrow, but there are still too many airports I like to use which are not DX10 compatible, even when using the AddOn converter which is available to convert textures on-the-fly.

I just haven't heard the best results with FSX even with the new i7 chips at high overclocks..even on just single montior PC's Alot of people say that even with the i7 they can barely get over 30-40 fps with high display settings.

"Barely get over 30-40"? Why on Earth would they want to? Unlike FS9, FSX is pretty smooth at anything over 20, and over 30 is indistinguishable from over 100.

My friend has an i7 920 chip with the EVGA 3x board overclocked to ~ 4.0ghz. He has two large LCD monitors set at 1680x1050 powerd by a single EVGA 285 2gb ram video card. He is running FS9 at all high settings and can hit around 250 fps. Thats what Im looking for too as I lose about 20fps for each window I undock to other monitors.

Yes, that's the big problem with multiple FS windows, whether on separate screens or not. I've got just the one 10 foot screen and that doesn't even show any panels, nothing but the outside world. That's what it is for. If I had room for three screens with three projectors I would use a Matrox triplehead2go (which I have on a test machine in a different room), but as far as FSX is concerned that would make it still one display at something like 4200 x 1050, not three displays with three scenery windows.

A similar argument really applies trying to put all of Project Magenta's smooth-operating glass cockpit screens on one PC, even an i7, as you suggested. You just won't get the same smoothness. When you enlarge your PFD and ND each to their correct full sizes of 8-10" any lack of smoothness is exaggerated. PM uses OpenGL, not DirectX, because at the time PM was first written (some 10 years ago), DirectX just could not compete for smoothness -- it can now I think, but it probably takes a lot more software design thoughtfulness.

On my Piper Arrow III cockpit I have a Core i7-920 overclocked to 4.0 GHz, again driving one screen -- a 32". I limit that to 30 fps too, but otherwise it varies 30-80. But I don't visit places like Heathrow in my Piper. Only small airfields, and with photographic scenery.

I easily mapped the squawk ident function to the left control key of my keyboard. There is a "Settings" tab in the CoPilot drop down that allows you to assign any function to either your joystick or keyboard. It does have all the squawk modes available too for mapping such as standby and mode C. in fact I think you can map most everything with it. Lastly, when you log into VATSIM via FSinn you are always in the standby mode until you enable Mode C yourself. So yes...you can map all transponder functions to a keyboard or joystick buttons if you want and can enable them just like you would in reality.

Okay, good. So the only question left really is whether it will run on a Networked PC with nothing overlaying the FSX screen. If not I shall have to wait for the Squawkbox folks to improve their Transponder handling facilities.

Im rewriting a specific tutorial for FSInn set-up now which is completely different from the FSUIPC one I am finishing out. The only FSInn set-up guide I found on VATSIM was sorely lacking in many, many respects so l just like John Cooks set-up effort for FSUIPC I went over the FSInn set-up tutorial with a finer tooth comb. I think I must just write fast! Once both are complete this week I will send you a copy of each.

Thanks!

In regards to FSUIPC I think I am wanting to re-enable my joystick function in FS and just use the default FS mappings for the yoke particularly because of the POV swicth functions. (its just too different from what Im used too and seems too choppy) If I do this though can I still use the FSUIPC for all the throttle and pedal mappings just so long as I delete their joystick assignments in FS?

I think a lot of folks have everything through FSUIPC except the POV. You can do that. You need to take care that FS doesn't automatically re-configure your disabled axes and buttons though. It tends to do this if it thinks you've just connected a new joystick. Providing the system remains stable and you don't reconnect things it should be okay. And you can probably prevent any unwanted automatic assignments by editing the entries corresponding to your devices in the FS "devices.cfg" (or maybe "devices2.cfg"?) which appear to supply it with default settings for when it sees a new controller.

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

I have a question about Project Majenta for you. I heve kept my eye on their site for many years now and am excited to see how they have branched out with more "virtual" like displays similar to FS.

My question I guess is that I know they sell this stuff for "pro sims" and know it will work with FS9 / FSX but do the gauges essentially work like the other gauges in FS? Meaning can they be moved and resized in somthing like panel studio and dropped on bitmaps in the same manner as a typical panel config file ? I would reeeeaaallllly like to try out some of their stuff too but I also know its expensive. Any company that says "call for a quote" turns ALOT of people away. If they made FSPS friendly gauge packs and sold them for what Reality XP does Im SURE they would sell ALOT. I would love to be able to buy the PFDs, EFIS, FMS, autopilot, and say a throttle /overhead combo for any jet for under $100. Instead I just routiney butcher all this together from alot of different aircraft.

If you look at my website I am a panel making junkie. I love flying a lot of different aircraft with custom panels I create and I think I do a very good job of getting the "real feel" right. I just wish I had even more realistic gauges.(thats why the Mindstar interests me too) I already have the entire Reality XP suite, the SimFlyer suite and every free high resolution gravy gauge I could find from the top download sites. I've even made my own gauge palette GUI in FSPS for storing gauges catagorically for ease of use like a "pick and pull" auto yard. I can whip out 5 1680x1050 screens in a day now. (not counting complete bitmap design..but that too Im good at..it all depends if I want to add alot of shading and rivits!) anyway, I've basically streamlined a great system for panel building.

I really think virtual gauges is where its at...and where it needs to stay. Its so much more affordable than buidling real hardware, less time consuming, and provides instant gratification with ease of set-up. (for the "home user" anyway)For $500 in software you can build what would take $5,000 in hardware and years of building..wiring, etc.. VRinsight is on to something now with their own panel overlays too..cool stuff.

If you look at the latest real cockpits everything is moving to 3 large lcd's for the panel (check out the new Pilatus or Falcon jet!) so why should my home PC be any different, Im just staying with the times!

...it's certainly easier to build. ..(so...why don't you email PM for me and tell them to rethink their sales strategy...they are really missing out Pete!...and I'd be happy to promote!) - jeff

[Pete Dowson]

I have a question about Project Majenta for you. I heve kept my eye on their site for many years now and am excited to see how they have branched out with more "virtual" like displays similar to FS.

My question I guess is that I know they sell this stuff for "pro sims" and know it will work with FS9 / FSX but do the gauges essentially work like the other gauges in FS? Meaning can they be moved and resized in somthing like panel studio and dropped on bitmaps in the same manner as a typical panel config file ?

I only know the Beoing suite -- the programs PFD, CDU, RCDU and MCP (alongside pmSystems and pmSounds).

The PFD program provides the PFD graphic itself, the ND, the EICAS (and secondary EICAS for those Boeings which have it), and the copilot PFD and ND. The one program can be configured to show all of these or just one part (PFD/ND, copilot ND/PFD, or one or other EICAS). The EICAS has optional standby instruments and other indicators such as trim gauge and flaps gauge. The various components can be sized, and moved around pretty much independently to suit the screen. In the past I've had three copies of PFD on one PC driving three screens on a Matrox TripleHead2Go, and one copy doing the same. In ther PFC cockpit the PFD program is running on three separate mini-PCs -- Pilot, EICAS and CoPilot. The instruments can be framed or unframed. Of course in my cockpit they are unframed as the screen they are on is framed in the cockpit MIP.

The CDU and RCDU programs (the latter is a slave to the former, but can have a different display showing) can show a complete CDU with its keys and so on, or just the CDU screen itself for hardware CDUs, as in my cockpit and in CDU's by folks such as Engravity.

The MCP does have an MCP graphic, but that is the rarest ever used as most PM users do have a hardware MCP -- the MCP program can interface directly to most of the well known ones.

So, it isn't really a do-it-yourself panel kit. But the "frames" you can put them into can be user-supplied I think.

I'm afraid I know nothing about the GA and other PM offerings. If you want to know more I think you can download demo versions. You might also want to look at competitors' offerings -- there are airliner suites by Flight Deck Software and SimAvionics. And there is FSxpand which may offer more choice for other aircraft.

I would reeeeaaallllly like to try out some of their stuff too but I also know its expensive. Any company that says "call for a quote" turns ALOT of people away. If they made FSPS friendly gauge packs and sold them for what Reality XP does Im SURE they would sell ALOT.

I don't think that's PM's style. They do a lot for professional training setups and I think prefer to concentrate on that market where they do a lot of specialised installation and support. The home hobbyist seems to be a bit of a distraction! ;-)

I would love to be able to buy the PFDs, EFIS, FMS, autopilot, and say a throttle /overhead combo for any jet for under $100. Instead I just routiney butcher all this together from alot of different aircraft.

Take a look at some of the cheaper offerings as well, then. There's also a freeware set too I think. If you visit http://www.mycockpit.org/forums, select an appropriate forum, and ask around I'm sure you'll get some good suggestions. My experience is really limited to PM Boeings which I've concentrated on now for the whole 10 years they've been in operation.

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

I will be emailing you two .PDF's tonight .. One for FSUIPC, and one for FS-Inn. Please let me know what you think and if I should add or subtract anything to yours. I hope you will find them worthy of posting!

I really want to check out some of the Project Majenta stuff. Im curious as to how it all works. My fear is that all their stuff is third party hosted and because of that I could not place their gauges over MY custom bitmap backdrops they way I normally do in FS. I'm guessing you do not drop their gauges in your gauges folder like you normally would with other gauge-set retailers (like with gauge cabs or any xml stuff.)

Anyway, If you see my set-up on my website I have a rather unique thing going with my center instrument monitor. Im certainly going to try out their demos though as I never have yet!

Also--If I want to delete the FSUIPC assignments for the yoke and restore yoke function to FS do I just have to delelte the yoke section out of the FSUIPC .ini file? I then assume the "hot fix" for the yoke would then just be to unplug it and replug it in with the sim up and running right? (and then readjust my button assignments from within FS controls\assignments or FSUIPC.)

Thanks, -Jeff / www.simsamurai.net