UTTERLY LOST WITH CONTROL ASSIGNMENTS

[Pete Dowson]

I will be emailing you two .PDF's tonight .. One for FSUIPC, and one for FS-Inn. Please let me know what you think and if I should add or subtract anything to yours. I hope you will find them worthy of posting!

Okay. Thanks -- looking forward to reading them!

I really want to check out some of the Project Majenta stuff. Im curious as to how it all works. My fear is that all their stuff is third party hosted and because of that I could not place their gauges over MY custom bitmap backdrops they way I normally do in FS.

They aren't gauges as such, but windows. And the graphics are done using OpenGL, not DirectX.

I'm guessing you do not drop their gauges in your gauges folder like you normally would with other gauge-set retailers (like with gauge cabs or any xml stuff.)

They are not gauges in that sense at all, but separate programs, nothing to do with FS except via their interface through FSUIPC.

Also--If I want to delete the FSUIPC assignments for the yoke and restore yoke function to FS do I just have to delelte the yoke section out of the FSUIPC .ini file?

There are separate sections for axis Assignments (Axes) and Calibration (JoystickCalibration). As I've tried to explain before, you do not have to assign axes in FSUIPC to have it calibrate your axes. In fact the assignment part was a much later addition. The buttons are assigned in a section called [buttons].

I then assume the "hot fix" for the yoke would then just be to unplug it and replug it in with the sim up and running right?

I would have thought you'd just enable it in FS and make whatever assignments you want. I've never trusted FS's automatic assignment in any case, it goes weird too often. Watch out for minimum sensitivity sliders and overlarge null zones.

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

At current I disabled the joystick function in FS and have FSUIPC running everything. I had actually deleted all the joystick axes and button assignments in FS first before I realized I could just use the disable joystick function so even if I delete any FSUIPC axes or button assignments I will still need to re-enable the joystick and reprogram the axes thus I figured a quick unplug / replug of the yoke will just get me going alot faster without the headache. I'm already very familiar with all the FS axes and button assignments I use and I have a tidy spreadsheet for everything and switching out some buttons is easy.

Brakeswhat slope do you use? ..or is this too personal ! :lol: I set both of mine to negative 5 (-5) it seems pretty nice?

Being that PM and the others you mentioned are not actaully "gauge sets" but are rather programs I can now understand much better why this stuff is run on multiple PC's. However I would hope a reasonable pro sim can still be built using my method too! I would think that a hefty 975 i7 on water cooling with the new EVGA 4x board could hold up their software, the sim, and some external views (or perhaps with FS9 at least) - Also, if you haven't seen in in action yet the GARMIN licensed GNS-430/530 by Reality XP is quite a piece of grand wizardry that I can drop into any plane I like. It really great becuase we have some of these in our flight club and its nice to be able to learn on it at home. While I understand these big boys at PM and Flight Deck like the big hardware for the big tin I must say I think they are dropping the ball on the GA market which I can only assume has alot more pilots (and a lot more home sim pilots) than the commercial arena alone. No big deal though..maybe I'll just learn XML programming next and make my own!

I have another question for you which includes that last page of my grand FSUIPC quick start tutorial and that is about creating User profiles. I understand how to create one as pages 26 and 27 of your user manual sufficiently explain how to set one up but again, as is one reason why I opened this thread, is that there is nothing on those two pages that actually says HOW to access / load one of the profiles once one (or several) have been created. The user prfiles option was also one of the main reasons I wanted to buy FSUIPC so please let me know. AND Sorry in advanced if I've missed it but I've read those two pages twice..(as well all of the user manual) and can't find specifc directions on user profile loading from the aircraft cockpit. please advise, over!

PS.---Did you see my site yet! I may not be a big dog on the market but Im certainly hoping to bite an ankle or too! :mrgreen:

Jeff

[Pete Dowson]

Brakeswhat slope do you use? ..or is this too personal ! :lol: I set both of mine to negative 5 (-5) it seems pretty nice?

For toe brakes? I don't recall -- I think I have mine linear, but I always have a decent null zone (by calibrating the "off" end short) so that I don't accidentally get any braking which using or checking the rudder. action.

... there is nothing on those two pages that actually says HOW to access / load one of the profiles once one (or several) have been created.

They are automatically loaded when an aircraft which has been assigned to them is loaded. That's the whole point, which somehow you missed? You never have to load any profiles explicitly, it is all absolutely automatic for you! Why should it be otherwise? To make life more complex for you?

I think you are misunderstanding something. I don't understand why. The profile system was implemented according top a user suggestion, to SIMPLIFY aircraft-specific control arrangements, not to make things more complicated, so why are you finding it so?

PS.---Did you see my site yet! I may not be a big dog on the market but Im certainly hoping to bite an ankle or too! :mrgreen:

Jeff

Yes, I had a look. It was interesting, but I found it difficult and tiring to read, being all in capital letters throughout. Is there a reason for that?

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

Ok,I thought creating User Profiles was so that you could create LESS of them for TYPE aircraft rather than "aircraft specific" . So hat I am saying is I would prefer to only have to make about 10-15 profiles that could fit the bill for say 150 aircraft most all of which can be broken down into the following simplified "type" categories;

1 -- Single Engine Piston ( for use with Cessna 172, 182, Piper Arrow, etc..)

2 -- Multi Engine Piston ( for use with Baron 58, Piper Seminole, etc..)

3 -- Single Engine Turbine (for use with Lancair Evolution, Epic Dynasty, etc..)

4 -- Multi Engine Turbine (for use with King Air 350, Orion P-3, Herc. C-130, etc..)

5 -- Single Engine Jet (for use with F-86 Sabre, F-20 Tigershark, etc..)

6 -- Multi Engine Jet (for use with F-14, F-18, Airbus A-320, Boeing 737, etc..)

7 -- Single Engine Helo ..etc.

8 -- Multi Engine Helo ..etc..

9 -- Glider / lighter than air...

I would think that the way you would then select a general "type" profile would be to load up which ever aircraft you want, get into the cockpit, hit ALT, open FSUIPC, and then quickly select one of these "type" profiles from a dropdown menu on the main intro tab of FSUIPC. --definitely something to think about.

Instead, and correct me if I am wrong...you are saying that YES this is what you do but ONLY ONCE for each new plane you fly? Thus once you select any profile for a specific aircraft (such as even a general "type" profile) then FSUIPC remembers that profile to be used with that specifc aircraft so that you do not have to load a profile each time you fly correct ?...and if so great. But how do you select one?

SO again, my point here is lets say you are flying an aircraft you have NOT selected ANY profile for yet (but had created one with another aircraft)...How then do you select a pre-created "type" style profile for use with this new aircraft... hence this brings me back to...wouldn't it be great to just have a user profile dropdown menu on the intro tab of FSUIPC ? I hope you see my point.

Lastly, in regard to my site ...do you think I should change all the text body to lower case? Reason? ...I guess I like CAPS because it fits in real well with my OCD. (nice and tidy like..) :mrgreen:

I guess I'll be doing alot of retyping this weekend! If anybodys opinion matters Pete, its yours! --anyway please let me know how to select a pre-existing profile with any NEW aircraft. Thanks.

Regards,

Jeff

[Pete Dowson]

Ok,I thought creating User Profiles was so that you could create LESS of them for TYPE aircraft rather than "aircraft specific" .

Yes, and to make it a lot easier. When you get a new aircraft which fits an existing profile you simply assign that profile to it.

So hat I am saying is I would prefer to only have to make about 10-15 profiles that could fit the bill for say 150 aircraft most all of which can be broken down into the following simplified "type" categories;

...

Yes, exactly soand precisely why it is designed to do that.

I would think that the way you would then select a general "type" profile would be to load up which ever aircraft you want, get into the cockpit, hit ALT, open FSUIPC, and then quickly select one of these "type" profiles from a dropdown menu on the main intro tab of FSUIPC. --definitely something to think about.

That is EXACTLY what you do.

Instead, and correct me if I am wrong...you are saying that YES this is what you do but ONLY ONCE for each new plane you fly? Thus once you select any profile for a specific aircraft (such as even a general "type" profile) then FSUIPC remembers that profile to be used with that specifc aircraft so that you do not have to load a profile each time you fly correct ?...and if so great. But how do you select one?

Oh dear. you don't seem to read things, do you? We've run up against this blindness before, where you said the documentation didn't tell you something which was plain to see for all.

There's a chapter in the FSUIPC User Guide called "User Profiles for all Control Settings". It is only two or three pages long, surely not too much to read? It is listed in the contents at the front. It does explain things, and all you need to do is read it! There's even a picture of the typical drop-down selection menu, where you select the profile from the list of those available for your added aircraft. Why don't you try it?

Why do I bother to write documentation, even insert pictures, if no one reads it? It is very sad, and not a little upsetting. :-(

Pete

[SimSamurai]

Pete, ...if you look back two posts ago I made specifc reference to the fact that I HAVE read your manual several time now. Pages 26 and 27several times. Please STOP assuming I haven't...I have.(1x,2x,3x..)

Again the question ...... How do you load a pre-existing user profile with any NEW aircraft ?

For instance lets say I created a "twin_multi_engine_turbine" profile. THEN I download and install a brand new Embraer 120 and load it up to fly. Who, what, when, where, and on which tab (or multiple tabs) must I then go to so as to load / assign the pre-created "twin_multi_engine_turbine" profile for the new Embraer 120?

-jeff

[Pete Dowson]

Again the question ...... How do you load a pre-existing user profile with any NEW aircraft ?

Select any of the controls for which you've created the profile you want to assign (Axes, joysticks, Buttons or Keys), go to that tab, click on the profile drop down and select it.

The documentation shows a picture of the drop down menu for some default generated profiles. You most certainly have NOT read it at all else you wouldn't be asking these questions. Here. I'll reproduce part of the manual here so you'll have no excuses at all. Search for this part:

Here’s an example of the Profile selection menu you might get with several assorted aircraft already with specific settings:

and see the picture just below it.

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I just saw that you emailed the "PDF" about FSInn. Thank you! It's actually a Word DOC file, but that's okay. I've printed it and will devour it at leisure tomorrow (I'm taking a break now, catch up on some TV stuff before bedtime).

Maybe it will entice me to try FSInn, but I'm worried that it needs that CoPilot part embedded in FS. I hope it can all be run satisfactorily from a networked PC, and, as you mentioned earlier, with button, switches (or keypresses produced by such) on the client. We'll see. ;-)

Regards

Pete

[SimSamurai]

Ohkayyyy NOW we are getting somewhere. Let me tell you Pete, I am a technical writer for a living and not a genius programmer such as yourself. What you are not seeing here is that there are two sides of a globe from which each of us sits. You know how to do all this so it seems very simple and elementary to you because YOU created the program. To any new user however this is in fact UTTERLY confusing.

Page 26 and 27 of your User Guide has NO definable header that saysSELECTING A PRE-CREATED USER PROFILE FOR USE WITH NEW AIRCRAFT

If you want to use any profile you previously created with a new aircraft you have installed, do this:

Step 1 : etc..

Step 2 : etc..

Step 3 : etc..

Nor does it say anywhere that you must specifically select this pre-created profile for every different function, (i.e; axis, buttons, keys..)Thus to get a profile to work with any new aircraft you actually have to jump through several hoops and not just one. This is what I wanted to hear. Sorry but this (to me at least) is not very clear at all. The sentence you reference for your instructions "Here’s an example of the Profile selection menu you might get with several assorted aircraft already with specific settings" --- can make you assume this means using the older style "aircraft specific" profiles that were mentioned on page 26 which were first touted as being obsolete and requiring modification in the .ini file into so as to create a new type of "user profile". In fact the remaining data on page 27 just goes on to tell you how to convert this older style data to the new style. Furthermore Pete, The header on page 27 in fact says "For users already having Aircraft Specific settings"

..... IT DOES NOT SAY "How To Use Any User Profile With A New Aircraft" ...does it ????

So, sorry my freind but these two pages are in fact VERY confusing and are very vague, general, and not very specific to accomplishing any specific tasks with user profiles.

I think it would be sooo much easier if you also included a user profile dropdown menu on the main "About" tab or a new "Profiles" tab that allows you to instantly select all functions all at once if desired (axis, joy, key) While I do see how the "3-way tabs plus" method allows for more flexibility in profile choice per device type it is still quite confusing for the novice especially when not laid out in laymen's terms.

Your knowledge is of course legendary Mr. Dowson but can only be shared up to the point that people can't comprehend it and therein lies the grand issue of effective communication.

FYI - Since starting this thread I've had a 747 pilot beg me for a good "laymen's" tutorial because he too has struggled with programming his controllers for years with FSUIPC and simply gave up..

So..I'm not the only "dummy" out here in the pasture who needs their hand to be held. Obviously there are other smart and competent people who need help too! :D

You most certainly have NOT read it at all else you wouldn't be asking these questions. Here. I'll reproduce part of the manual here so you'll have no excuses at all.

Totally uncalled for Pete .. :? Im TRYING to help you convey what your product does in a more effective manner so more people can use it. :roll:

In all regards I am at your disposal for accomplishing this task.

Jeff

[Pete Dowson]

Page 26 and 27 of your User Guide has NO definable header that saysSELECTING A PRE-CREATED USER PROFILE FOR USE WITH NEW AIRCRAFT

No, it just explaions what the facility does and how to access it.

Nor does it say anywhere that you must specifically select this pre-created profile for every different function, (i.e; axis, buttons, keys..)

Because you don't. But you can only find the Profile in one of those sections IF a profile for that section has been created. You don't have to have profile sections in all four categories for every profile -- that's the point you seem to be missing.

The facility is pretty much EXACTLY the same as the "aircraft specific" facilities, which pretty much everyone understood, but with the specificness collected in new "Profile" sections under new names which you assign. This is why the documentation approaches it from the aircraft-specific point of view, as a start. The latter is explained separately, section by section, in more detail in the relevant chapters. The Profiles part draws on all that.

Thus to get a profile to work with any new aircraft you actually have to jump through several hoops and not just one.

No you don't. Once you have created a Profile for, says Keys, you can do so for Buttons and so on. You are simply not forced to have separate Key assignments just because you want separate Buttons or joysticks or whatever. It is much more flexible and powerful than you seem to think, but still just as easy to use -- and evidently easier to use than you are deciding for yourself, wrongly!

No one else to my knowledge has become as confused as you have in virtually every single aspect of FSUIPC. It is certainly as if we speak different languages, and I am sorry for that.

So, sorry my freind but these two pages are in fact VERY confusing and are very vague, general, and not very specific to accomplishing any specific tasks with user profiles.

I am sorry, but a lot of this is you, approaching things with your own preconceived ideas and simply not reading what is on the page. Furthermore, it is so easy to learn what is meant by trying it out. I don't understand why you've never even tried using a facility before you ask all these questions, which are in fact already answered (just maybe not in a way which pleases YOU), and further, making so many assumptions, which you then state here almost as facts without even checking for yourself!!!

I think it would be sooo much easier if you also included a user profile dropdown menu on the main "About" tab or a new "Profiles" tab that allows you to instantly select all functions all at once if desired (axis, joy, key)

It does that in any case, but only if it is able to. The profiles active at any time are dependent upon the Sections (Keys, Axes, Buttons, Calibration) which actually have anything set for them. It is to do with efficiency and flexibility. I am a programmer, and that's the way i think and work. Others seem to appreciate it, I am sorry you don't. But I am not about to rewrite all my code.

FYI - Since starting this thread I've had a 747 pilot beg me for a good "laymen's" tutorial because he too has struggled with programming his controllers for years with FSUIPC and simply gave up..

So..I'm not the only "dummy" out here in the pasture who needs their hand to be held. Obviously there are other smart and competent people who need help too! :D

I assure you, the ones who read and try and succeed far outnumber the dummies.

Please do stop making you own mind up about how thingas work and use the software in the way it was written and documented. I really don't understand you at all -- If you had but tried things out once you'd have been clear on this from the start. Take a practical approach, please.

Pete