Problems using Its Your Plane, FSUIPC and Radar Contact

[Helge Rasmussen]

Hi,

I am trying to use "Its Your Plane" (IYP) together with Radar Contact 4.3, FSUIPC and Flight Simulator X.

When I do this, I get a very strange behaviour that I have tried to bugfix with Robert Cezar at IYP's forum (http://flightsimplaza.com/superatc/indeopic=580.0).

Robert suggested that I posted here since you apparently also are using IYP, Radar pilot and ofcourse FSUIPC.

I will try to describe this in a systematic matter so I do not leave anything out. SOrry for the long post :)

The synopsis of the problem is:

When I enable the Microphone switch in IYP, then I can no longer communicate with Radar Contact. Apparently CTRL and SHIFT no longer works.

My setup:

Hardware:

Intel core i7-869 2.86 8 mb.

8GB ram,

Geforce GTX285.

Saitek X-65F controller.

Software:

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 (UAC disabled)

Flight Simulator X SP1 + Acceleration (installed under D:\FSim, runs in compatibility mode and administrator)

FSUIPC 4.6a registered

IYP 4.1.0.192

Radar Contact 4.3.3845

I also have several FSX addons installed, but they are not used to reproduce the problem.

Configuration:

=================

I am listing what I believe are relevant settings for this problem. Let me know if you need to know more.

Radar Contact:

Radar Contact is configured as described in the IYP light deck manual page 26.

For instance Menu selection 1 is Ctrl + 1, Menu selection command is Ctrl + 2.

(IYP has been told to "Use Alternate R C Commands").

IYP:

FSX views: Disabled.

Hide Key: Disabled.

SelCal: Enabled

Process Priority: Disabled

Funny Prompts: Disabled

PopUps: Enabled

Supress FX: Enabled

It has been set up for "Radar Contact 4 ATC".

In "Options", the Microsoft switch key assignment field is empty, and there is no checkmark in Active.

The following entries have checkmarks in "Settings":

Activate the System

Extended Help

Speech Bar

Activate Quick Start Mode

Command Confirmations

Activate ACARS System

Activate Push To Talk

Supress Sound Effects

FSUIPC:

One key has been defined in Buttons+Switches:

Joy# 0 2 Btn#

Select for FS control checkmarked

Control sent when button pressed: IYP Listen On

Parameter 0

Control Sent when button released: IYP Listen Off

Parameter 0

Everything else is unchecked or greyed out.

Problem reproduction:

Start FSX. Load default Cessna.

Start IYP.

Start Radar Contact. Load a flightplan that originates where the cessna is.

First to show that the configuration works:

"Turn right Heading 123" results in the heading bug being moved

"Select 2" results in Radar contact playing ATIS message.

Now for the problem:

Turn microphone switch on: "Activate Microphone switch".

"Turn right heading 124" doesn't work (as expected)

Push switch and "Turn right heading 125" works.

Push switch and "Select 1" does not do anything (this is the problem).

The log in IYPLogs directory shows that IYP is trying to send the command to Radar contact:

You said: select one 10:08:53

Michelle said: Sent 1 CONTROL to Radar Contact 10:08:53

"Disable Microphone switch" and both works again.

"Enable Microphone switch" and again I cannot commucate with Radar contact.

This is the problem I have.

Further observations:

It looks like the activated microphone switch steams CTRL and SHIFT.

For instance: I cannot put on the parking brake when the switch is active (shortcut for it is "Ctrl+."), I only get the normal brake (shortcut ".").

Nor can I display panel window 1 when the switch is active (Shortcut: SHIFT+1).

And

If I open notepad, then I cannot write uppercase letters using SHIFT when the switch is active, nor can I select all text in the document with Ctrl-A). I only can do this when the switch is deactivated.

Note that these two observations are done without actually pressing the mic switch. Its just activated/enabled.

Final observation: The problem is not 100 % reproducable. Some times it suddenly works, and I don't know wny. I would say that the above behaviour happens about 90 % of the time.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/help,

Helge

[Pete Dowson]

Hi,

I am trying to use "Its Your Plane" (IYP) together with Radar Contact 4.3, FSUIPC and Flight Simulator X.

I use them all regularly. They make a very good combination.

The synopsis of the problem is:

When I enable the Microphone switch in IYP, then I can no longer communicate with Radar Contact. Apparently CTRL and SHIFT no longer works.

They cannot be at all related, unless you are using a conflicting keypress for your IYP mike switch. Are you assigning the mike switching button to the special IYP PTT controls in FSUIPC? If so, then there's no keypress involvement whatsoever, so no possibility of any interaction.

Radar Contact is configured as described in the IYP light deck manual page 26.

For instance Menu selection 1 is Ctrl + 1, Menu selection command is Ctrl + 2.

(IYP has been told to "Use Alternate R C Commands").

I use the standard Ctrl+Shift+But then I always have, ever since I started using RC many years ago. I was not aware IYP even had an "alternate" mode.

In "Options", the Microsoft switch key assignment field is empty, and there is no checkmark in Active.

It surely cannot work then? I have to have the facility Active for the PTT controls to work, I'm sure. I do, in any case, and this was under Robert's original instructions.

One key has been defined in Buttons+Switches:

Joy# 0 2 Btn#

Select for FS control checkmarked

Control sent when button pressed: IYP Listen On

Parameter 0

Control Sent when button released: IYP Listen Off

Parameter 0

That's okay. I assume you don't have it repeating?

In that case there can be absolutely no interaction between it and any keystrokes used by any program. There's no use of keys, keystrokes, keyboard, nothing, with those IYP controls assigned from a button.

First to show that the configuration works:

"Turn right Heading 123" results in the heading bug being moved

"Select 2" results in Radar contact playing ATIS message.

Without holding the PTT button down? That's not right!

Now for the problem:

Turn microphone switch on: "Activate Microphone switch".

Erwhy? You said you had a button for this. Why aren't you using it? And if the mike switch was off before this, how is IYP relating your "turn right" instruction as you just stated?

Something is very mixed up here!

"Turn right heading 124" doesn't work (as expected)

Push switch and "Turn right heading 125" works.

Push switch and "Select 1" does not do anything (this is the problem).

Well, I'm confused by your sequence in any case.

The log in IYPLogs directory shows that IYP is trying to send the command to Radar contact:

You said: select one 10:08:53

Michelle said: Sent 1 CONTROL to Radar Contact 10:08:53

"Disable Microphone switch" and both works again.

"Enable Microphone switch" and again I cannot commucate with Radar contact.

Well, I've no idea what IYP is doing on "enable" and "disable" microphone switch. I assume this is the same as the checkmark you don't have in the Options? I have that checkmark always set and never use "enable" or "disable" microphone switch. Maybe you could try eliminating its use too?

If IYP is genuinely sending the correct keypress then nothing to do with microphone button actions is going to interfere.

This is the problem I have.

Further observations:

It looks like the activated microphone switch steams CTRL and SHIFT.

"Steams"" meaning what exactly? And how does "shift" come into it when you don't use it?

For instance: I cannot put on the parking brake when the switch is active (shortcut for it is "Ctrl+."), I only get the normal brake (shortcut ".").

Nor can I display panel window 1 when the switch is active (Shortcut: SHIFT+1).

And

If I open notepad, then I cannot write uppercase letters using SHIFT when the switch is active, nor can I select all text in the document with Ctrl-A). I only can do this when the switch is deactivated.

Hmm. It is certainly sounding like IYP is doing some extra unwanted keyboard actions when this "enable microphone switch" command is used. There's no other possible explanation -- it should simply be responding to Windows broadcast messages, totally unrelated to the keyboard. That is certainly how the FSUIPC YP control work, and it is certainly fine using the Option checkmark, no use of the "enable" "disable" command. Are you sure those aren't intended for use with on-line ATC programs or IYP's user intercomms facilities?

You need to do some logging in FSUIPC to show what is happening. But first download the very latest FSUIPC update (4.616) so we are both on the same version (see Updates announcement). Then enable Button/Keys logging. Reproduce the problem you just mentioned (Ctrl and Shift locked) and show me the log. Also, perhaps you'd try to explain how Shift comes into it when you've nothing using it?

Note: it is a busy weekend with the World Cup, which I am absorbed in, so it may be Monday before I can look at it.

Pete

[Helge Rasmussen]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for answering.

In this post I will answer the questions you have, and in the next I will post the log you asked for.

They cannot be at all related, unless you are using a conflicting keypress for your IYP mike switch. Are you assigning the mike switching button to the special IYP PTT controls in FSUIPC? If so, then there's no keypress involvement whatsoever, so no possibility of any interaction.

I had PTT enabled in my experiment, but I don't use it. In the next log I have disabled PTT. The joystick button is configured to the Microphone switch.

Radar Contact is configured as described in the IYP light deck manual page 26.

For instance Menu selection 1 is Ctrl + 1, Menu selection command is Ctrl + 2.

(IYP has been told to "Use Alternate R C Commands").

I use the standard Ctrl+Shift+But then I always have, ever since I started using RC many years ago. I was not aware IYP even had an "alternate" mode.

I used those too, but Robert Cezar asked me to try the alternate set. Thats why its currently set up to use those.

It surely cannot work then? I have to have the facility Active for the PTT controls to work, I'm sure. I do, in any case, and this was under Robert's original instructions.

I enabled the microphone switch with the voice command "Activate Microphone Switch", that should be the same as setting a checkmark in the options pannel for the Microphone switch. In my log below, I do as you suggest and enable the switch by setting the checkmark.

That's okay. I assume you don't have it repeating?

In that case there can be absolutely no interaction between it and any keystrokes used by any program. There's no use of keys, keystrokes, keyboard, nothing, with those IYP controls assigned from a button.

No, there is no checkmark next to repeating.

Without holding the PTT button down? That's not right!

I am not using push to talk. In this scenario the microphone switch isnt enabled either yet. I do that below with "Activate Microphone Switch".

Now for the problem:

Turn microphone switch on: "Activate Microphone switch".

Erwhy? You said you had a button for this. Why aren't you using it? And if the mike switch was off before this, how is IYP relating your "turn right" instruction as you just stated?

Something is very mixed up here!

"Activate Microphone switch" does not push the switch, it enables it. Before I did this, IYP reacted on all I said. After I said "Activate Microphone Switch" I will have to push the switch to be heard. Later I say "Deactivate Microphone switch" again to disable it, and after that I no longer have to push a switch to be heard.

"Turn right heading 124" doesn't work (as expected)

Push switch and "Turn right heading 125" works.

Push switch and "Select 1" does not do anything (this is the problem).

Well, I'm confused by your sequence in any case.

Since I just had enabled the switch, I from now on have to push the switch to be heard.

I did not push the switch when I said "Turn right heading 124", so I expected that not to work.

I pushed the switch when saying "Turn right heading 125" so it should be heard, and indeed it was and it worked.

I pushed the switch when saying "Select 1", so it should be heard. But nothing happened...

Well, I've no idea what IYP is doing on "enable" and "disable" microphone switch. I assume this is the same as the checkmark you don't have in the Options? I have that checkmark always set and never use "enable" or "disable" microphone switch. Maybe you could try eliminating its use too?

The "Activate" and "Deactivate" sentences are exactly the same as setting and removing the checkmark in the Options dialog.

I want to keep the switch on at all time, but when I do, radar contact doesn't work. I just disabled the switch to show that it works without it.

If IYP is genuinely sending the correct keypress then nothing to do with microphone button actions is going to interfere.

This is the problem I have.

Further observations:

It looks like the activated microphone switch steams CTRL and SHIFT.

"Steams"" meaning what exactly? And how does "shift" come into it when you don't use it?

Oops, I meant "Steals" :) Shift comes into it because I can see from the examines below (trying to type "Shift 1" and trying to type in notepad) that the SHIFT key does not work when the Microphone key is enabled.

Hmm. It is certainly sounding like IYP is doing some extra unwanted keyboard actions when this "enable microphone switch" command is used. There's no other possible explanation -- it should simply be responding to Windows broadcast messages, totally unrelated to the keyboard. That is certainly how the FSUIPC YP control work, and it is certainly fine using the Option checkmark, no use of the "enable" "disable" command. Are you sure those aren't intended for use with on-line ATC programs or IYP's user intercomms facilities?

I Started by using the Option checkmark, I just used the voice commands to try out different scenarios.

To De-complicate (Is that a word?) the situation, I have now switched to having the mic switch checkmark on (see next post).

You need to do some logging in FSUIPC to show what is happening. But first download the very latest FSUIPC update (4.616) so we are both on the same version (see Updates announcement). Then enable Button/Keys logging. Reproduce the problem you just mentioned (Ctrl and Shift locked) and show me the log. Also, perhaps you'd try to explain how Shift comes into it when you've nothing using it?

I have uptraded to version 4.616 and will use that for the next test.

I hope I have explained above how Shift comes into it. Shift is used in some Radar contact commands and in some FSX shorttcuts (like Show panle 1: "Shift 1").

Note: it is a busy weekend with the World Cup, which I am absorbed in, so it may be Monday before I can look at it.

No worries, enjoy the world cup :)

Helge

[Helge Rasmussen]

I did a scenario with logging enabled.

Below is a description of what I did followed by the FSUIPC log of this:

I reconfigured IYP a little bit:

As I wasn't using Push to talk at all, I deactivated it.

I also put a checkmark in Options next to the Microphone switch. so now it shows key field blank and

activated.

I put a checkmark at "Button and key operations in the FSUIPC logging tab .

Then I stopped everything, deleted the FSUIPC log file and did the following procedure:

Start fsx

Start iyp (this time with Mic switch active)

Start radar control

Say "Turn right heading 123" and see it doesn't go through as it indeed shouldn't.

Push switch and say "Turn right heading 124": Works

Push switch and say "Select 2": Doesn't work

Type "Ctrl+1" (should be radar control command 1): Doesn't work.

Press brake button ".": Works

Press Parking brake button "CTRL+.": Doesn't work, it behaves like "."

Press Panel 1 button "Shift+1": Doesn't work

Push switch and say "Deactivate Microphone switch": Disables the mic switch off, the checkmark in

options goes away.

Say "Turn right heading 125": Works

say "Select 2": Works

Press brake button ".": works

Press Parking brake button "CTRL+.": Works

Press Panel 1 button "Shift+1": Works

Close FSX

Here's the log:

********* FSUIPC4, Version 4.616 by Pete Dowson *********

Reading options from "D:\FSim\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Modules\FSUIPC4.ini"

Trying to connect to SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07 ...

User Name="Helge Rasmussen"

User Addr="xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"

FSUIPC4 Key is provided

WideFS7 Key is provided

Running inside FSX (using SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07)

Module base=61000000

Wind smoothing fix is fully installed

DebugStatus=255

764 System time = 12/06/2010 13:33:49

764 FLT UNC path = "\\ACCELERANDO\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\"

764 FS UNC path = "\\ACCELERANDO\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\"

1061 Assuming running on Vista or later in compatibility mode!

1076 LogOptions=40000000 00000001

1076 SimConnect_Open succeeded: waiting to check version okay

3463 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.61637.0 (SimConnect: 10.0.61259.0)

3463 Initialising SimConnect data requests now

3463 FSUIPC Menu entry added

3510 \\ACCELERANDO\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\Default.FLT

3510 \\ACCELERANDO\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\SimObjects\Airplanes\C172\Cessna172SP.AIR

40638 System time = 12/06/2010 13:34:29, Simulator time = 13:33:52 (11:33Z)

40654 Aircraft="Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Paint1"

52947 Advanced Weather Interface Enabled

65068 FSUIPC Display Title set = "Checklist"

111931 HotKey entry at 3210, VK=49, Shifts=2, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3214, VK=50, Shifts=2, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3218, VK=51, Shifts=2, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 321C, VK=52, Shifts=2, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3220, VK=53, Shifts=2, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3224, VK=186, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3228, VK=54, Shifts=2, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 322C, VK=56, Shifts=2, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3230, VK=57, Shifts=2, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3234, VK=48, Shifts=2, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3238, VK=191, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 323C, VK=55, Shifts=2, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3240, VK=77, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3244, VK=75, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3248, VK=76, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 324C, VK=80, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3250, VK=79, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3254, VK=87, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3258, VK=192, Shifts=1, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 325C, VK=78, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3260, VK=72, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3264, VK=74, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

111931 HotKey entry at 3268, VK=89, Shifts=3, Flags=0, Result=0

112913 FSUIPC Display Title set = "Radar Contact"

126064 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=0, Btn=2, Pressed

126064 [buttons] 1=P0,2,C1115,0

126064 FSUIPC Control Action: Ctrl=1115, Param=0

128826 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=0, Btn=2, Released

128826 [buttons] 2=U0,2,C1116,0

128826 FSUIPC Control Action: Ctrl=1116, Param=0

131634 KEYUP: VK=36, Waiting=0

135877 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=0, Btn=2, Pressed

135877 [buttons] 1=P0,2,C1115,0

135877 FSUIPC Control Action: Ctrl=1115, Param=0

138186 FSUIPC Control Action: Ctrl=1070, Param=562

138186 SendKeyToFS(00020032=[ctl+2], KEYDOWN) ctr=0

138186 Sending WM_KEYDOWN, Key=17 (Control) (Scan code 29), Ctr=2

138248 Sending WM_KEYDOWN, Key=50 (Scan code 3), Ctr=1

138295 SendKeyToFS(00020032=[ctl+2], KEYUP) ctr=1

138466 Sending WM_KEYUP, Key=50 (Scan code 3), Ctr=2

138498 KEYDOWN: VK=50, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=0

138498 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

138498 KEYUP: VK=50, Waiting=0

138513 Sending WM_KEYUP, Key=17 (Control) (Scan code 29), Ctr=1

138560 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=0, Btn=2, Released

138560 [buttons] 2=U0,2,C1116,0

138560 FSUIPC Control Action: Ctrl=1116, Param=0

138560 KEYUP: VK=17, Waiting=0

145206 KEYDOWN: VK=49, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=0

145206 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

145408 KEYUP: VK=49, Waiting=0

145830 KEYUP: VK=17, Waiting=0

149667 KEYDOWN: VK=190, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=0

149667 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

149792 KEYUP: VK=190, Waiting=0

153068 KEYDOWN: VK=190, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=0

153068 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

153068 KEYUP: VK=190, Waiting=0

153755 KEYUP: VK=17, Waiting=0

159215 KEYDOWN: VK=49, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=0

159215 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

159215 KEYUP: VK=49, Waiting=0

159948 KEYUP: VK=16, Waiting=0

164987 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=0, Btn=2, Pressed

164987 [buttons] 1=P0,2,C1115,0

164987 FSUIPC Control Action: Ctrl=1115, Param=0

167717 Button changed: bRef=0, Joy=0, Btn=2, Released

167717 [buttons] 2=U0,2,C1116,0

167717 FSUIPC Control Action: Ctrl=1116, Param=0

179573 FSUIPC Control Action: Ctrl=1070, Param=562

179573 SendKeyToFS(00020032=[ctl+2], KEYDOWN) ctr=0

179573 Sending WM_KEYDOWN, Key=17 (Control) (Scan code 29), Ctr=2

179573 KEYDOWN: VK=17, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=2

179573 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

179588 Sending WM_KEYDOWN, Key=50 (Scan code 3), Ctr=1

179635 KEYDOWN: VK=50, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=2, HotKey 33214 Set

179697 SendKeyToFS(00020032=[ctl+2], KEYUP) ctr=0

179697 Sending WM_KEYUP, Key=50 (Scan code 3), Ctr=2

179729 Sending WM_KEYUP, Key=17 (Control) (Scan code 29), Ctr=1

179744 KEYUP: VK=50, Waiting=0

180009 KEYUP: VK=17, Waiting=0

182895 KEYDOWN: VK=190, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=0

182895 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

183254 KEYUP: VK=190, Waiting=0

184409 KEYDOWN: VK=17, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=2

184409 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

184861 KEYDOWN: VK=17, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=2

184861 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

184924 KEYDOWN: VK=17, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=2

184924 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

184970 KEYDOWN: VK=17, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=2

184970 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

185017 KEYDOWN: VK=17, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=2

185017 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

185064 KEYDOWN: VK=17, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=2

185064 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

185126 KEYDOWN: VK=17, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=2

185126 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

185173 KEYDOWN: VK=17, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=2

185173 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

185220 KEYDOWN: VK=17, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=2

185220 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

185282 KEYDOWN: VK=190, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=2

185282 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

185376 KEYUP: VK=190, Waiting=0

186031 KEYUP: VK=17, Waiting=0

187778 KEYDOWN: VK=16, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=1

187778 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

188246 KEYDOWN: VK=16, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=1

188246 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

188309 KEYDOWN: VK=16, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=1

188309 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

188356 KEYDOWN: VK=16, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=1

188356 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

188402 KEYDOWN: VK=16, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=1

188402 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

188465 KEYDOWN: VK=16, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=1

188465 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

188512 KEYDOWN: VK=16, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=1

188512 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

188558 KEYDOWN: VK=16, Waiting=0, Repeat=Y, Shifts=1

188558 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

188558 KEYDOWN: VK=49, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=1

188558 .. Key not programmed -- passed on to FS

188699 KEYUP: VK=49, Waiting=0

189245 KEYUP: VK=16, Waiting=0

204502 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 164 secs = 16.0 fps

213565 System time = 12/06/2010 13:37:22, Simulator time = 13:36:27 (11:36Z)

213565 *** FSUIPC log file being closed

Average frame rate for running time of 164 secs = 16.0 fps

Memory managed: 76 Allocs, 76 Freed

********* FSUIPC Log file closed ***********

[Pete Dowson]

I had PTT enabled in my experiment, but I don't use it. In the next log I have disabled PTT. The joystick button is configured to the Microphone switch.

I'm even more confused now. By "PTT" I mean "push to talk" -- a button to enable your microphone, so you can talk to IYP. Whay's the difference between that and a microphone switch?

I enabled the microphone switch with the voice command "Activate Microphone Switch", that should be the same as setting a checkmark in the options pannel for the Microphone switch. In my log below, I do as you suggest and enable the switch by setting the checkmark.

Ok.

I hope I have explained above how Shift comes into it. Shift is used in some Radar contact commands and in some FSX shorttcuts (like Show panle 1: "Shift 1").

Er, yes I know. But you said all of your IYP commands to RC use only Ctrl+, not Shift+Ctrl+ Since nothing is sending the Shift key I can't see how it can get locked.

Regards

Pete

[Helge Rasmussen]

Hi again,

I have had the same trouble understanding the two switches. Robert Cezaro would be the best to explain it as I still am a bit confused, but here is what I think they do:

According to the IYP manual (p 162) PTT us used to speak to ATC (and hereby I think Robert means external ATC like VATSIM and VAIO).

The microphone switch is used to speak internally to the co-pilot and inbuilt ATC.

Here is how Robert explained it to me:

Push to Talk is used to speak with Vatsim, IVAO, etc. Why are you using PTT for Radar Contact? Please keep in mind that when you are using Radar Contact, you are issuing voice commands to Michelle (your Co-Pilot), who is in turn issuing commands to RC. Bottom line... DO NOT USE PTT unless you are speaking with Vatsim, IVAO, or another LIVE ATC system.

So thats why I do not use the PTT facility (which can be activated with "Activate Push-To-Talk".

I do not understand what you say about locking the Shift key?

It is correct that the radar contact communication I do in the examples here do not use commands that contain the SHIFT keys, there are other commands that still contain the shift key though, such as "Repeast Last Instruction" that one still is "CTRL+SHIFT+/".

My guess is that when the mic switch is on. then somethng blocks the CTRL and the SHIFT key (as can be seen since neither "SHIFT+1" nor "CONTROL+." works) and this is the reason for Radar Contact not working.

Helge

[Pete Dowson]

I have had the same trouble understanding the two switches. Robert Cezaro would be the best to explain it as I still am a bit confused, but here is what I think they do:

According to the IYP manual (p 162) PTT us used to speak to ATC (and hereby I think Robert means external ATC like VATSIM and VAIO).

The microphone switch is used to speak internally to the co-pilot and inbuilt ATC.

Oh, right. I use "PTT" as the term for my on-yoke mike switch. I'd want to use the same no matter who I was talking to. Maybe it's a good job I don't (currently) fly on-line!

I do not understand what you say about locking the Shift key?

No, it me who doesn't understand.

It is correct that the radar contact communication I do in the examples here do not use commands that contain the SHIFT keys, there are other commands that still contain the shift key though, such as "Repeast Last Instruction" that one still is "CTRL+SHIFT+/".

Okay. And you've used that in the session where you lost the use of the Shift key?

My guess is that when the mic switch is on. then somethng blocks the CTRL and the SHIFT key (as can be seen since neither "SHIFT+1" nor "CONTROL+." works) and this is the reason for Radar Contact not working.

It's not so much likely that anything is blocking anything, only that the "KEYUP" message in Windows is being lost, so the Control and/or Shift keys look like they are still pressed down. A keypress like "Ctrl+Shift+1" involves 6 separate messages which have to be processed through Windows then through the FS Window procedure:

WM_KEYDOWN for Shift

WM_KEYDOWN for Control

WM_KEYDOWN for '1'

then a short delay

WM_KEYUP for '1'

WM_KEYUP for Control

WM_KEYUP for Shift

This why i hate keypress dependent programs.

Radar Contact registers its key-press requirements with FSUIPC, and thereafter FSUIPC looks out for them. IYP sends keypresses by invoking a keypress control in FSUIPC which makes is send that sequence to FS's Windows Procedure. FSUIPC intercepts the keypresses in the Windows procedure, sees they are for RC, and flags the event for RC to pick up.

All of that should work fine, though it could conceivably get messed up by other programs sending keypresses, or the real keyboard being used, right in the middle of the sequence. That is very unlikely, though, as it is all over is milliseconds.

The IYP control to activate the microphone input to IYP is completely separate from that and involves no keyboard messages whatsoever. This is why I don't understand how it could possibly have any bearing.

The log I asked for should show the sequence of KEYDOWN and JKEYUP messages. If it is large, ZIP it and send it to petedowson@btconnect.com .

Regards

Pete

[Helge Rasmussen]

Hi Pete,

I already posted the log plus a description of what keys, buttons and things I said to result in what's in the log. You can find it a bit earlier in the thread.

Helge

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Pete,

I already posted the log plus a description of what keys, buttons and things I said to result in what's in the log. You can find it a bit earlier in the thread.

Ah, sorry, I missed it!

The log shows everything is working perfectly, all of the correct keystrokes and messages EXCEPT that there are no WM_KEYDOWN messages arriving from Windows for the Control or Shift keys whilst you hold the Button down.

Something about that button being held down is clobbering something in Windows, or possibly there's a joystick driver or another program stealing those messages before FS (or really FSUIPC) sees them. I've no idea, but it certainly cannot be anything either FSUIPC or IYP is doing. And FSUIPC doesn't get a chance if the messages don't arrive.

Let's try some experiments.

1. Leave the microphone switch deactivated so you don't have to use it to make things happen. But use it in any case. What happens?

2. Still with the option off, see what happens if you simply hold a different button down, one not related to this but programmed to do something else.

3. Same as 2. but using a button not programmed to do anything at all.

4. Same as 2 and 3 but using a button on a different joystick, if you have one.

5. Instead of programming the one button which you hold down, could you possible find another? Program one to switch the mike on, and the other to turn it off, so you don't have to hold it down? See if that makes a difference. If you have no other button let's reprogram that one to toggle on and off with alternate presses.

Maybe with answers to those questions we'll have a better idea of what is going on. At present it looks very strange. The KEYUPs are definitely arriving, but something is swallowing the KEYDOWNs.

Could you list any other add-ons or programs you have running at the same time, please? I'm getting suspicious it's another utility doing this.

Regards

Pete

[Helge Rasmussen]

Hi Pete,

I have had a breakthrough, although I still got problems.

It turned out that "Ultimate Traffic 2" and IYP doesn't like each other. I have now uninstalled Ultimate Traffic 2 and that helped immensely.

The switch no longer blocks the CTRL and SHIFT keys, so I can now communicate with RC4 :)

I have another problem now though: The microphone switch disables once in a while: Suddenly I no longer need to press the switch to communicate with IYP. If I say "Activate microphone switch" then it works again, but then it disables again later.

I haven't found any system in when it turns itself off so far. I will have to experiment a bit more.

I assume there can be (at least) two reasons for this:

Either the switch in fact turns itself off, OR it "hangs", for instance by missing the key up code.

Could you explain a message like this:

145206 KEYDOWN: VK=49, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=0

It might help me debug the problem. I assume VK somehow identifies the key pressed. How do I see which key corresponds to 49?

I won't bother you more with this, at least not until I have done a bit more testing myself:)

Thanks for helping out so far!

Helge

Btw. regarding UT2: I hadn't installed the latest update. It might fix the problem, I just do not want to experiment with UT2 until I have gotten the rest of the system working so I uninstalled it.

[Pete Dowson]

It turned out that "Ultimate Traffic 2" and IYP doesn't like each other. I have now uninstalled Ultimate Traffic 2 and that helped immensely.

Hmmm. I've been using UT2 successfully now ever since it came out. mind you, I run UT2 on the FSX PC and IYP + RC on a WideFS client PC.

The switch no longer blocks the CTRL and SHIFT keys, so I can now communicate with RC4 :)

It is still difficult to fathom how the "switch" can do anything like that. This is why I started to think it must be related to the holding down of the joystick button -- irrespective of what it was programmed to do.

Didn't you try any of the tests I suggested on Saturday? I was trying to narrow the cause down. Removing symptoms often isn't a true solution.

I have another problem now though: The microphone switch disables once in a while: Suddenly I no longer need to press the switch to communicate with IYP. If I say "Activate microphone switch" then it works again, but then it disables again later.

Are you sure this is not just another manifestation of the same problem? This is the trouble if you only remove symptoms and not tackle the cause.

Either the switch in fact turns itself off, OR it "hangs", for instance by missing the key up code.

It was the KEYDOWN codes which were being lost -- your log showed ALL of the KEYUP codes arriving okay. Something is trapping the KEYDOWNs, and for most uses those are the ones that matter. Since it appeared that KEYDOWNs, even from the real keyboard, were going missing when the joystick button was being held down, I am guessing that something provides a joystick option along with Shift and Control. I can't see how it is anything specifically to do with IYP -- it is simply that with IYP microphone switch you hold a button down whilst other things are going on. The only way it could be IYP is if IYP itself were trapping Control and Shift KEYDOWN's whilst its microphone switch is held down.

The tests I asked you to do would have shown us a lot more about all this.

Could you explain a message like this:

145206 KEYDOWN: VK=49, Waiting=0, Repeat=N, Shifts=0

The Windows Message was WM_KEYDOWN, with the Virtual Keycode 49. Igonre the waiting flag. The repeat flag simply shows if it is marked as an auto-keyboard repeat (from being held down), and the shifts are a collection of bits denoting which other ("shift" type) buttons were still pressed.

Windows virtual Keycodes and shift values are listed in the FSUIPC advanced user's guide as well as in many Windows' message references on-line..

I won't bother you more with this, at least not until I have done a bit more testing myself:)

Please try the tests I suggested, else I'm really not interested any more. :-(

Regards

Pete

[Helge Rasmussen]

I will try the tests and post the results. It will take some days before I got time to do it.

Another thing I could try was doing a reinstall and only install FSX, IYP, FSUIPC and Radar Contact and hopefully verify it works before installing more, but unless you think otherwise, I will just reinstall UT2 and do the tests you suggested.

Helge

[Helge Rasmussen]

Hi Pete,

I reinstalled Ultimate Traffic 2, which I thought was the reason for the trouble, so I could do the tests you suggested, but I could not reproduce the problems I had this Sunday and earlier.

I assume there isn't much point in doing the tests when I cannot reproduce the problem, right?

A bit of investigation showed that I had gotten a new driver for my Saitek X65f this sunday via Windows Update. I am almost sure that it was this that fixed the problems about the missing shifts and ctrl's. Unfortunately, I haven't found any description of what is fixed with he new driver.

I am not able to revert to the old driver to test if it really is the case, but it really sounds like something a buggy joystick driver could do.

The problem concerning the mic switch that stayed on was probably because I turned the microphone level all the way to 100. It is now down at 50 and everything works like a dream! I think the ambient level was so high because of the sensitivity, that the mic never turned off.

I will do some more testing the following days, but it seems like, and I hope, that the problem is solved.

Anyway, thanks for all the help you have given. The knowledge I gained about FSUIPC and keycodes etc. will certainly help me in the future.

Helge

[Pete Dowson]

A bit of investigation showed that I had gotten a new driver for my Saitek X65f this sunday via Windows Update. I am almost sure that it was this that fixed the problems about the missing shifts and ctrl's. Unfortunately, I haven't found any description of what is fixed with he new driver.

No, but it is much much more likely that problems of lost key presses when holding down a joystick button are related to the joystick driver that to any program like UT2!

The problem concerning the mic switch that stayed on was probably because I turned the microphone level all the way to 100. It is now down at 50 and everything works like a dream!

Good news! And good flying! :-)

Regards

Pete