PMDG NGX Throttle Performance with PFC Jetliner

[wchambers]

I apologize in advance if I should have figured this out from other posts. I have read the other posts here and in other forums regarding performance issues when using PFC hardware with the new pmdg ngx.

I followed Pete's instructions to identify and calibrate my throttle axis through fsuipc and my jetliner console is working much better than initially. Have throttle, flaps, speedbrake, and gear all functioning well. My

Main problem is that when climbing out in ngx I get absolutely no power. Using the A/T or manually controlling the throttle I get nothing above 180-190 knots. The only way I can get climb power or get a normal response out of the throttles is to go into fsuipc, make some change (wind smoothing for example), come back out, and the throttles are responsive. Sometimes it takes two entries into fsuipc to "wake" things up. I have checked every setting imaginable in fsuipc and the ngx. I know Pete is out for a bit and this may have to wait for him - but does anyone have any suggestions or has anyone else experienced this? Thanks in advance. I have the newest version of fsuipc. My PFC is a serial Jetliner console - using a Brainbox serial adapter.

Thanks in advance.

Will Chambers

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[Pete Dowson]

I apologize in advance if I should have figured this out from other posts. I have read the other posts here and in other forums regarding performance issues when using PFC hardware with the new pmdg ngx.

I followed Pete's instructions to identify and calibrate my throttle axis through fsuipc and my jetliner console is working much better than initially. Have throttle, flaps, speedbrake, and gear all functioning well. My

Main problem is that when climbing out in ngx I get absolutely no power. Using the A/T or manually controlling the throttle I get nothing above 180-190 knots. The only way I can get climb power or get a normal response out of the throttles is to go into fsuipc, make some change (wind smoothing for example), come back out, and the throttles are responsive. Sometimes it takes two entries into fsuipc to "wake" things up.

I have checked every setting imaginable in fsuipc and the ngx. I know Pete is out for a bit and this may have to wait for him - but does anyone have any suggestions or has anyone else experienced this? Thanks in advance. I have the newest version of fsuipc. My PFC is a serial Jetliner console - using a Brainbox serial adapter.

Going into FSUIPC options and exiting doesn't cause any change in any serially connected devices because FSUIPC doesn't control them. It will rescan the standard Joystick connections (those recognised by Windows as joysticks), in case they've changed, but that cannot affect anything handled completely outside of FSUIPC, like a serail device handled, presumably, by my PFC driver.

So, I think more information is needed. Is this Jetliner console the floor standing device with radios, throttle quadrant and so on? If so how have you got the throttle quadrant set up? Are you sure the direct control from the PFC driver is disabled if you are assigning in FSUIPC -- or vice versa?

Is this problem only with the NGX?

Please also state version numbers of FSUIPC4 and PFCFSX.

Regards

Pete

[wchambers]

Is this Jetliner console the floor standing device with radios, throttle quadrant and so on?

Yes - My unit is the floot standing version with throttles and radios.

If so how have you got the throttle quadrant set up? Are you sure the direct control from the PFC driver is disabled if you are assigning in FSUIPC -- or vice versa?

Reading another post by someone having problems with PFC and your directions, I selected a quadrant in PFC "making a user configuration in the PFC driver for the quadrant where none of the axes are assigned (i.e. untick the enabled check mark), and in FSUIPC make an aircraft-specific or profile for the PMDG aircraft, go to Axis assignments and assign the axes there. Calibrate in the calibration section. All this can be automatically enabled when you load that aircraft, just by making them aircraft-specific in both drivers." This post:

Are you sure the direct control from the PFC driver is disabled if you are assigning in FSUIPC -- or vice versa?

I think so - as best as I can tell. It has performed much better since following your instructions in the above post.

Is this problem only with the NGX?

Yes - only in the NGX - works great in other aircraft including PMDG MD-11

Please also state version numbers of FSUIPC4 and PFCFSX.

FSUIPC - 4.703 and PFC 4.34

Thanks again

Will Chambers

[Pete Dowson]

FSUIPC - 4.703 and PFC 4.34

Could you try the latest versions of both of those, please -- from the Download Links subforum.

Regards

Pete

[wchambers]

Done - both FSUIPC updated and PFC updated.

Same result - on climbout in the NGX speed will not exceed around 180 knots unless I go into FSUIPC and make some change - that seems to wake it up. When I come back into FSX - throttle is alive.

I have a user config quadrant enabled in the PFC program with none of the axes selected as active - I have done this through FSUIPC.

Thanks

Will Chambers

[Pete Dowson]

Same result - on climbout in the NGX speed will not exceed around 180 knots unless I go into FSUIPC and make some change - that seems to wake it up. When I come back into FSX - throttle is alive.

Hmmm. Very strange. I can't see the same here, with the exact same quadrant (not in the Jetliner, but the same controller board mounted in a box for testing).

BTW can you not report the SPEED, which isn't too helpful, but the actual throttle position reached. You don't even need to start the engines. Just look at the throttle quadrant in the sim whilst moving the throttle levers. Do they move to a maximum position of 50% approx? If so then I think you are assigning to the wrong controls.

Regards

Pete

[wchambers]

Ok - I have made progress. BTW - sorry for the references to "Speed" - the throttle would go to 80% 90% and 100% but I would see no airspeed increase.

Anyway, I seemed to have corrected the issue - lets see if I can repeat the success on the next flight. While taking a break I thought I would go back and get rid of the log files and profiles I had created and just put the pfc.dll and FSUIPC.dll in the modules folder like a clean install. I then went ahead and selected the 737NG throttle quadrant in the PFC program and then through FSUIPC added things that were not being picked up - like the spoilers and gear lever. This time climbout was perfect - had perfect thrust as programmed whether that was manual or through the autothrottle. I will advise on my next flight if this success holds.

Thanks - and sorry to waste your time. I hope this will continue to work.

Will Chambers

[737nut]

Ok - I have made progress. BTW - sorry for the references to "Speed" - the throttle would go to 80% 90% and 100% but I would see no airspeed increase.

Anyway, I seemed to have corrected the issue - lets see if I can repeat the success on the next flight. While taking a break I thought I would go back and get rid of the log files and profiles I had created and just put the pfc.dll and FSUIPC.dll in the modules folder like a clean install. I then went ahead and selected the 737NG throttle quadrant in the PFC program and then through FSUIPC added things that were not being picked up - like the spoilers and gear lever. This time climbout was perfect - had perfect thrust as programmed whether that was manual or through the autothrottle. I will advise on my next flight if this success holds.

Thanks - and sorry to waste your time. I hope this will continue to work.

Will Chambers

Every time i do a 'clean' install of FSUIPC and or button assignments, the NGX works great. Shut the sim down and re-start and the problems are back. Be interesting to see if you have found something.

Rob

[Pete Dowson]

Ok - I have made progress. BTW - sorry for the references to "Speed" - the throttle would go to 80% 90% and 100% but I would see no airspeed increase.

So something else is slowing it -- maybe the spoilers are being raised? Evidently the throttles are okay.

Every time i do a 'clean' install of FSUIPC and or button assignments, the NGX works great. Shut the sim down and re-start and the problems are back.

It sounds like axes are being assigned automatically. FSUIPC does this for the PFCHid.DLL -- do you have that installed as well? And if so why? (But the latest interim update for FSUIPC does not do the automatic assignment if PFCFSX is also loaded -- or at least it doesn't here. I have both PFCFSX and PFCHid running because my cockpit has a mixture of PFC serial port and USB devices).

Please show me your FSUIPC4.INI file, and the latest log using the latest updated FSUIPC please. You can paste them into a message here.

Regards

Pete

[wchambers]

I think the info about the PFCHid file is from Rob. I am assuming I do not need that file. The only file I have ever used is the pfc.dll as the only pfc equipment I have is console.

I will advise as to progress - about to test again.

Thanks again

Will Chambers

[Pete Dowson]

I think the info about the PFCHid file is from Rob.

To Rob, not From -- I was replying to his post in that part. Sorry, I shouldn't have combined the replies..

I am assuming I do not need that file. The only file I have ever used is the pfc.dll as the only pfc equipment I have is console.

Correct for FS9 or before, but I assume you mean PFCFSX.DLL?

I will advise as to progress - about to test again.

Your FSUIPC4.INI and log file would be useful too, please. It still looks like the spoilers are activating if the aircraft won't accelerate enough under ful power. Either that or your brakes.

I don't understand why it only affects the NGX though, unless it's because of the aircraft-specific or Profile settings limiting it to that aircraft, which seems likely now i think of it.

Pete

[wchambers]

Ok - well, success on the next flight. No problems - well almost - at least nothing like before. Plenty of thrust and what seems to be full interplay with the throttles. I was getting an intermittent loss of the autothrottle - it would just randomly disconnect. Not sure about that. Here is my FSUIPC4 log file:

********* FSUIPC4, Version 4.726 by Pete Dowson *********

Reading options from "E:\Flight Simulator X\Modules\FSUIPC4.ini"

Trying to connect to SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07 ...

User Name="William Chambers"

User Addr="wrfleet@gmail.com"

FSUIPC4 Key is provided

WIDEFS7 not user registered, or expired

Running inside FSX on Windows 7 (using SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07)

Module base=61000000

Wind smoothing fix is fully installed

DebugStatus=15

1154 System time = 28/08/2011 19:28:03

1154 FLT path = "C:\Users\Will Chambers\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\"

1154 FS path = "E:\Flight Simulator X\"

1482 LogOptions=00000000 00000001

1482 SimConnect_Open succeeded: waiting to check version okay

2823 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.61472.0 (SimConnect: 10.0.61259.0)

2823 Initialising SimConnect data requests now

2823 FSUIPC Menu entry added

2855 E:\Flight Simulator X\FLIGHTS\OTHER\FLTSIM.FLT

2855 E:\Flight Simulator X\SimObjects\Airplanes\Aircreation_582SL\Aircreation_582SL.AIR

109216 E:\Flight Simulator X\SimObjects\Airplanes\PMDG 737-800NGX WL\B737-800WL.AIR

225718 System time = 28/08/2011 19:31:47, Simulator time = 22:28:04 (02:28Z)

225733 Aircraft="Boeing 737-823NGX American Airlines Winglets"

237854 Starting everything now ...

241333 Advanced Weather Interface Enabled

244188 PFC Menu entry added

259523 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 23 secs = 24.5 fps

321455 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 46 secs = 30.1 fps

352016 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 26 secs = 26.6 fps

747697 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 250 secs = 28.5 fps

754561 Weather Mode now = Real World

1688648 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 930 secs = 28.7 fps

2264697 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 564 secs = 26.8 fps

2402774 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 128 secs = 34.1 fps

2447328 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 41 secs = 32.9 fps

I attached the FSUIPC4.ini file

Thanks

Let me know if you see something odd.

Will Chambers

[wchambers]

Dont know if the file attached - so here it is:

FSUIPC4.ini

[General]

UpdatedByVersion=4726

History=E1AVWT4AJC4J325Y3JCXN

MouseWheelTrim=No

MouseWheelTrimSpeed=1

JoystickTimeout=20

PollGFTQ6=Yes

BlankDisplays=No

FixControlAccel=No

FixMachSpeedBug=No

VisibilityOptions=No

OneCloudLayer=No

CloudTurbulence=No

CloudIcing=No

GenerateCirrus=No

SuppressCloudTurbulence=No

MaxIce=-4

MinIce=-4

UpperWindGusts=No

SuppressWindTurbulence=No

SuppressWindVariance=No

WindTurbulence=No

TurbulenceRate=1.0,5.0

TurbulenceDivisor=20,20,40,40

SuppressAllGusts=No

MaxSurfaceWind=0

WindLimitLevel=200

WindDiscardLevel=400

WindAjustAltitude=No

WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000

SmoothBySimTime=No

WindSmoothing=No

WindSmoothness=2

WindSmoothAirborneOnly=Yes

PressureSmoothness=0

TemperatureSmoothness=0

DisconnTrimForAP=No

ZeroElevForAPAlt=No

ThrottleSyncAll=No

WhiteMessages=No

ShowPMcontrols=No

SpoilerIncrement=512

MagicBattery=No

RudderSpikeRemoval=No

ElevatorSpikeRemoval=No

AileronSpikeRemoval=No

ReversedElevatorTrim=No

ClockSync=No

ClockSyncMins=5

ClearWeatherDynamics=No

OwnWeatherChanges=No

TimeForSelect=4

LoadFlightMenu=No

LoadPlanMenu=No

PauseAfterCrash=No

BrakeReleaseThreshold=75

SaveDataWithFlights=No

ZapSound=firework

ShortAircraftNameOk=No

UseProfiles=Yes

EnableMouseLook=No

TCASid=Flight

TCASrange=40

AxisCalibration=No

DirectAxesToCalibs=No

ShowMultilineWindow=Yes

SuppressSingleline=No

SuppressMultilineFS=No

AxisIntercepts=No

DontResetAxes=No

GetNearestAirports=No

WeatherReadFactor=2

WeatherRewriteSeconds=1

CustomWeatherModify=No

SimConnectStallTime=1

LuaRerunDelay=66

Console=No

[JoyNames]

AutoAssignLetters=No

0=Logitech Extreme 3D

0.GUID={C75296D0-E4E0-11DF-8002-444553540000}

1=CH FLIGHT SIM YOKE USB

1.GUID={A51EA3C0-E52A-11DF-8001-444553540000}

[buttons]

ButtonRepeat=20,10

1=P16,18,K71,8

2=P30,1,C65860,0

[AutoSave]

Next=1

Interval=60

Files=10

SaveOnGround=No

AutoSaveEnabled=No

[GPSout]

GPSoutEnabled=No

[GPSout2]

GPSoutEnabled=No

[WideServer]

WideFSenabled=Yes

[sounds]

Path=E:\Flight Simulator X\Sound\

Device1=Primary Sound Driver

Device2=Headset Earphone (5- Microsoft LifeChat LX-3000 )

Device3=Realtek Digital Output(Optical) (Realtek High Definition Audio)

Device4=Realtek Digital Output (Realtek High Definition Audio)

[Profile.pmdg737]

1=Boeing 737-924 United Airlines (Merger) Winglets

[JoystickCalibration.pmdg737]

AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes

ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes

ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes

ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=No

UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=66731

RudderTrimControl=66732

CowlFlaps1Control=66162

CowlFlaps2Control=66163

CowlFlaps3Control=66164

CowlFlaps4Control=66165

SteeringTillerControl=0

MaxSteerSpeed=60

Spoilers=-16380,-14320/24

[Axes]

0=17X,512,D,22,0,0,0

[JoystickCalibration]

AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes

ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes

ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes

ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=No

UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=66731

RudderTrimControl=66732

CowlFlaps1Control=66162

CowlFlaps2Control=66163

CowlFlaps3Control=66164

CowlFlaps4Control=66165

SteeringTillerControl=0

MaxSteerSpeed=60

Spoilers=-16380,16380/16

Will Chambers

[Pete Dowson]

Dont know if the file attached - so here it is:

I'm a bit lost now as to what you are doing. I thought you were assigning in FSUIPC? The only axis assigned there is this one, from the PFC throttle quadrant:

[Axes]

0=17X,512,D,22,0,0,0

which is a direct assignment to FSUIPC calibration for the spoilers.

I think 17X is the left-most lever, which would be appropriate for a spoiler. And it is sort-of calibrated, at least in your pmdg737 Profile:

Spoilers=-16380,-14320/24

However, those calibration values will probably mean you get full spoiler deflection wherever that lever is: -16380 to -14320 is simply wrong. You'd expect something very positive for the maximum figure. You also have Filtering enabled, which will make it a little less precise -- you shouldn't need that with a good axis like the PFC and a reasonably stable power supply. You need to either leave spoiler control to the PFC driver or calibrate it properly, preferably without filtering.

It is also set as if calibrated in the generic calibrations, but evidently not with any specific calibration, but at least with the default one which may work a little better -- which is why you don't see the same effect on other aircraft.

Spoilers=-16380,16380/16

Incidentally, if you change:

ShortAircraftNameOk=No

to

ShortAircraftNameOk=Substring

and

[Profile.pmdg737]

1=Boeing 737-924 United Airlines (Merger) Winglets

to, say,

[Profile.pmdg737]

1=Boeing 737

then the pmdg737 profile will apply automatically to any other variation you may use in future.

Regards

Pete

[wchambers]

Thank you. Sorry if I was unclear. When I updated both FSUIPC and PFCFSX.dll and did clean installs, just to see what would happen, I went back into the PFC program and selected the 737NG throttle quadrant and enabled it there. It then worked fine in the PMDG NGX except for the spoilers and the gear. So for the spoilers, I went into FSUIPC and identified and calibrated that axis through FSUIPC, which also worked fine. Prior to downloading the latest editions of FSUIPC and PFCFSX, as you suggested, I got no response through the PFC module when using the NGX, and that is why I thought I was going to have to go exclusively with FSUIPC. Now it would appear that the newest version of the PFC module and the NGX are speaking.

Thanks for the other information - I will do as you suggest and take a look at the spoiler calibration.

Will Chambers

[Pete Dowson]

I went into FSUIPC and identified and calibrated that axis through FSUIPC, which also worked fine.

...

Thanks for the other information - I will do as you suggest and take a look at the spoiler calibration.

Yes, it does look like it is rather up the creek and could easily be responsible for activating the spoilers. You could of course check this on the graphic quadrant when you are trying to take off.

Regards

Pete

[trinidad]

I also have the PFC control unit with the jetliner quadrent however it is the desk mounted unit which has gear lever.flaps,and a number of other control switches.My problem is not the throttle levers of the PFC unit not

controlling the spool up or down but other glitches.1.The gear lever on PFC does not raise or lower gear.2.The AP switch although with light showing green rarely enables activation of LNAV or VNAV.3.With the AP swich on sometimes the IAS/MACH button fails to operate(I have the A/T on/armed).The IAS/Mach can be very useful if the VNAV+LNAV not responding to the AP/CMD.

I would be very grateful for any guidance you could offer me please.Yes you can fly in manual mode(good for training for a rating!)but without a first officer can be a little daunting.

I use FSX with W7 and 64 bit.Regards to you Peter.Desmond(Trinidad)

[Pete Dowson]

I also have the PFC control unit with the jetliner quadrent however it is the desk mounted unit which has gear lever.flaps,and a number of other control switches.My problem is not the throttle levers of the PFC unit not

controlling the spool up or down but other glitches.1.The gear lever on PFC does not raise or lower gear.2.The AP switch although with light showing green rarely enables activation of LNAV or VNAV.3.With the AP swich on sometimes the IAS/MACH button fails to operate(I have the A/T on/armed).The IAS/Mach can be very useful if the VNAV+LNAV not responding to the AP/CMD.

I would be very grateful for any guidance you could offer me please.Yes you can fly in manual mode(good for training for a rating!)but without a first officer can be a little daunting.

I use FSX with W7 and 64 bit.Regards to you Peter.Desmond(Trinidad)

What aircraft is this with? If you mean with default FSX aircraft then it sounds like there's something wrong with the hardware and you need to contact PFC. If you mean with a complex add-on aircraft it is probably because that aircraft does its own thing and you have to find other ways of programming your switches for such add-ons. Please see the other threads about this. Maybe there are others using the same aircraft who've solved problems over in the User Contributions subforum. You just need to make the proper assignments for your specific add-ons.

Regards

Pete

[trinidad]

Thank you Pete,My problem is with the B737NGX from PMDG.I have been in touch with PFC but have

not received any solutions from them.I will look again at the site you suggested and see if others

have similar glitches and how to tackle.I will let you know if anything emerges which may be of use

in case others approach you.Best Wishes Desmond.

[Pete Dowson]

Thank you Pete,My problem is with the B737NGX from PMDG.

Ah ... the PFC driver is only suited to normal FS aircraft or Project Magenta. PMDG do their own thing.

These problems have been solved by many already -- trawl the relevant threads here, looking for the NGX in the title.

There are several solutions folks have found. The one which works best for me is simply to disable the PFC driver's throttle assignments for that one aircraft (assign a User Config for the aircraft, and don't assign the throttles). Then assign them and calibrate them in FSUIPC instead. You'll need a registered FSUIPC for this, and one of the most recent versions -- 4.727 is available from the Download Links subforum.

Same with some of the switches which need PMDG 737NGX keypresses or even mouse macro assignments to work. There are some contributions already for many of these. See User Contributions subforum.

Pete