Simped Pedals .... Toe brakes problem

[Alpinekid]

Hi Pete

Ok .... I have connected a set of Simped pedals to my system using FSX and I am having a hell of a job configuring the toe brakes ...

What's happening is the brakes stay on when I have applied them and then let my feet off the pedals

If I press the period key on the keyboard this will allow the brakes to come off but as soon as I touch the pedals again they are on permenantly .

Now I have tried the little trick . with raising the sensitivity slider and making sure the Null Zone is far left ... I have also tried reversing the toe brakes in the control axis section but still no joy ...

I then thought let's try doing this through FSUIPC ..... but once again the brakes are staying on once I depress and release them ....

Oh yes I did read on a post which could be the answer is that when a USB HID device (simped pedals in this case) is added that the firmware tells Windows 7 64 Bit that the axis should be treated as 'slider' type and NOT an 'axis' type

With a slider type Windows uses one of the axis extremes as it's home position to calibrate off of.

With axis type Windows uses the centre of the axis as it's home position

Anyway .. I hope you have a few ideas on the way forward on this one

Thanks in advance

[Pete Dowson]

Ok .... I have connected a set of Simped pedals to my system using FSX and I am having a hell of a job configuring the toe brakes ...

What's happening is the brakes stay on when I have applied them and then let my feet off the pedals

Do they come off if you depress them fully? If so you need to reverse the axis. Most pedals have the high numbers feeding in when released, decreasing to zero as you press them.

You also always need a good dead or null zone on pedals so you don't press the brakes unintentionally when using the rudder.

If I press the period key on the keyboard this will allow the brakes to come off but as soon as I touch the pedals again they are on permenantly .

That certainly sounds like one of both of those problems. Reversed and/or non enough of a dead zone.

Now I have tried the little trick . with raising the sensitivity slider and making sure the Null Zone is far left ... I have also tried reversing the toe brakes in the control axis section but still no joy ...

you are certainly getting something wrong, then, unless those pedals are faulty. The sensitivity slider should be as far right as possible in any case.

Oh yes I did read on a post which could be the answer is that when a USB HID device (simped pedals in this case) is added that the firmware tells Windows 7 64 Bit that the axis should be treated as 'slider' type and NOT an 'axis' type

Those are both the same to FS and FSUIPC.

With a slider type Windows uses one of the axis extremes as it's home position to calibrate off of. With axis type Windows uses the centre of the axis as it's home position

Really? Never heard of that. In any case calibrating in FSUIPC would ignore all that.

If you do try it in FSUIPC, make sure you don't assign in both FS and FSUIPC, only one or the other. In FSUIPC, on the calibration page, you should be able to see clearly what is happening, as you can see the numbers themselves. You should be able to get values calibrated to work, no matter how bad the axis/slider.

Regards

Pete

[paulnd]

I had a similar problem with 4.733 but it seems to be fixed in 4.734

[Alpinekid]

Good morning Pete and Paulnd

Thank you for your responses ....

I was beginning to think that maybe the pedals are faulty but suffice to say they have hardly been thrashed ...

Hmmm interesting Paulnd .... I take it you are on about the numerical values that show up when depressing the toe brakes?

But .... how do I finalise it at the value 4.734 as you suggest?

Does this mean it can be fine tuned?

[Pete Dowson]

But .... how do I finalise it at the value 4.734 as you suggest?

4.734 is the version number of the latest interim FSUIPC4 update available in the Download Links sub-forum.

Regards

Pete

[Alpinekid]

Ahhhh thanks for clarifying that Pete ... Haha ....

Do you think it might sort things out?

Suck it and see I guess

[Pete Dowson]

Ahhhh thanks for clarifying that Pete ... Haha ....

Do you think it might sort things out?

If you weren't using 4.733 when you had the problem, no, it won't really make any difference. There was a small glitch in the 4.733 update which is why I replaced it within a few hours.

Unless the pdeals are giving totally erratic readouts, provided they give some regular change of values from released to fully pressed, whether increasing or decreasing, then proper calibration in FSUIPC will always work. All FSUIPC is doing for you when you follow the calibration steps is to record a safe and consistently attainable "brakes off" (minimum) input value, and a safe and consistently attainable "brakes full" (maximum) input value, and converting all the intervening values it sees into the complete range acceptable to FS. That is "calibration" -- matching whatever your pedals are doing to what FS actually needs.

If you follow the numbered steps in the calibration section of the User Guide, ensuring that numbers increase left-to-right on screen (and as you press the pedals), then there's really nothing that can go wrong. If you think it isn't working for you, note down the "IN" and "OUT" numbers you are seeing on screen with feet off, feet pressing slightly, and feet pressing fully. Let me know. And also tell me what you've set under the minimum and maximum "Set" buttons.

Pete

[Alpinekid]

Ok thanks for the detailed response Pete

I will report back in due course

[Alpinekid]

Good afternoon Pete

Ok .... I am starting to get some success ....

I have been into the 'Joystick calibration' section and set the toe brakes and now the brakes come off fully once I take my feet off the pedals :smile:

I have put a tick in 'filter' .. is that correct?

The only thing I am experiencing now is a very short delay in the aircraft braking once I have depressed the toe brakes ..... also there is a slight tendency for the aircraft to brake to the left even though I have depressed the brakes evenly

The values are as follows :-

Left brake ....... In 0 Out -16383 Fliter ticked

Right brake ...... In 0 Out -940 Filter ticked

Also ...... Should I have the values still set in the Axis assignment section?

Thanks Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I have put a tick in 'filter' .. is that correct?

it's not a good idea unless your pedals are pretty flakey. Try without the filter.

The only thing I am experiencing now is a very short delay in the aircraft braking once I have depressed the toe brakes

Filtering can do that as it works on gathering samples.

..... also there is a slight tendency for the aircraft to brake to the left even though I have depressed the brakes evenly

You should be able to compensate for that by adjusting the Min/Max points in the calibration. No two axis hardware components are exactly the same, that's why you need calibration. Try and get the OUT values shown in the Calibration the same for each pedal for different pressures.

The values are as follows :-

Left brake ....... In 0 Out -16383 Fliter ticked

Right brake ...... In 0 Out -940 Filter ticked

-940 isn't right.. What is the range of "IN" values for each? What have you calibrated for minimum and maximum for each?

Also ...... Should I have the values still set in the Axis assignment section?

What values? If you assign in FSUIPC you assign in FSUIPC, else you assign in FS.

Pete

[Alpinekid]

Hi Pete

Ok the readouts are now as follows:-

Left Brake OUT = -16383 IN = 0

Right Brake OUT = -16383 IN = 0

No Filter

They seem to be behaving themselves now apart from when I depress the toe barkes I get this approx 2 second delay before braking starts

[Alpinekid]

Toe barkes hahaha .. it might catch on :grin:

[Pete Dowson]

Ok the readouts are now as follows:-

Left Brake OUT = -16383 IN = 0

Right Brake OUT = -16383 IN = 0

No Filter

You still haven't told me the range nor the min/max values you've set.

They seem to be behaving themselves now apart from when I depress the toe barkes I get this approx 2 second delay before braking starts

If that is so with the filtering off it is to do with the aircraft model, unless you simply don't have enough brake pressure applied -- since you won't state the range and values i can't tell.

Pete

[Alpinekid]

Sorry Pete

I'll check that in the morning

Just for the record the aircraft is the stock FSX Beechcraft Baron 58

Cheers

[Alpinekid]

Hi Pete

Minimum set to zero

Maximum set to 16383

This is for both the left and right toe brakes

[Pete Dowson]

Minimum set to zero

Maximum set to 16383

This is for both the left and right toe brakes

And that is the range you get on the axes? Really? They are well nigh perfect then, as most don't give such exact perfect values!

In any case, you'd still do better to do what the calibration steps (in the User Guide) advise, and to set the minimum a little higher (i.e. with some pressure on the pedals), to stop accidentally pressing brakes when using rudder normally, and also to prevent brakes coming on should you ever get any little jitter in your currently perfect pedals. Jitter is caused by wear, dirt, humidity, temperature, and power fluctuations, so can affect anyone.

Also it is generally wise to set the maximum a little less than the true maximum input so that you can always be sure of getting to the max when you need it.

All this would be accomplished by following the numbered steps to calibrating correctly in the FSUIPC User Guide.

Regards

Pete

[Alpinekid]

No .. those figures were from Joystick calibration

Under the Axis assignment its a whole new ball game

If I click 'rescan' and then depress the left toe brake I get

In 0 (always that value)

OUT 13674

I then rescanned again and depressed the left toe brake and this time the OUT value was 3328

The same with the right toe brake IN is always 0 but the OUT figures varies considerably with every rescan ... I have seen 10624 and next time 2176

Does this deduce anything Pete?

[Pete Dowson]

No .. those figures were from Joystick calibration

Under the Axis assignment its a whole new ball game

I'm not talking about axis assignment, only calibration. But if the OUT values shown in the assignment don't match the IN values in calibration, you have something odd going on, because the result of assignment is what you are calibrating.

If I click 'rescan' and then depress the left toe brake I get

In 0 (always that value)

Sorry, I don't understand. Are you really saying that pressing the brake gives no changing values at all, only one fixed at 0? If you don't get a range of values your pedals are broken, defunct.

And if the OUT value there changes much from the IN value, then you either have "RAW" set (don't), or you've set a large Delta value. The default Delta is 256 which means FSUIPC ignores changes smaller than 256. The OUT value may then differ from the IN value by up to 256, but it will often be the same.

Does this deduce anything Pete?

Yes, if the axis values are always 0 you couldn't possibly use them let alone calibrate them. i think you are reading something very wrongly indeed.

In any case nothing of what I've been asking you was in any way related to what's on the assignments tab. I have only been trying to extract from you 4 simple values sen on the Calibrations tab -- the range of IN values for each pedal, and the MIN and MAX values you've personally set by pressing the relevant SET buttons -- not the default values which might still be there if you've not calibrated.

All this is on the calibrations tab.

But I'm giving up asking you now. I think you seem to be happy with what you've got even if I don't understand what you've done through lack of information. Good flying!

Regards

Pete