PMDG 737ngx throttle conflict with FSUIPC calibration

[plowry]

My CH throttles calibrate fine for thrust reverse with FSUIPC, but the autothrottle disengages as soon as TOGA is engaged. The problem does not occur if I calibrate the throttles with FSX, but then I have no thrust reverse. (My F2 key appears to be dead and I do not know how to breathe life into it.) I would much appreciate knowing if there is a FSUIPC or other fix for this or is my 737 flying to be limited to long dry runways.

Peter

[Pete Dowson]

My CH throttles calibrate fine for thrust reverse with FSUIPC, but the autothrottle disengages as soon as TOGA is engaged. The problem does not occur if I calibrate the throttles with FSX, but then I have no thrust reverse. (My F2 key appears to be dead and I do not know how to breathe life into it.) I would much appreciate knowing if there is a FSUIPC or other fix for this or is my 737 flying to be limited to long dry runways.

Sorry, I've no idea what difference PMDG makes between normal autothrottle and its control of throttle for TOGA. The latter should simply push the throttles to the set N1% as far as I know, just like any other autothrottle change. So I'll assume you mean A/T cuts out anyway.

The only way FSUIPC can provide a reverse zone on a throttle axis is by using the THROTTLEn_SET controls -- because there are no other controls with such a facility. If the PMDG cannot operate its autothrottle correctly when such FS controls are used then the only likely way is to revert to the normal AXIS controls with no reverse zone, and use separate reversers.

However, you should be able to get away with simply parking your throttle levers in a well-defined stable zone (eg a good well defined idle zone or a max thrust 'dead zone' at the top end) when engaging A/T. FSUIPC does not send anything from the axes to FS when the value isn't changing. Any jitter however will result in values being sent.

Regards

Pete

[plowry]

Thanks for this response Pete. If I could activate my F2 key I could work around the problem, but I can't figure out how to do that in FSX. I will have to stick to long runways for now.

Peter.

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks for this response Pete. If I could activate my F2 key I could work around the problem, but I can't figure out how to do that in FSX.

The "F2" key is just assigned in FSX to "THROTTLE DECR". It's the same as "THROTTLE1_DECR and THROTTLE2_DECR" ertc but operates on all selected engines instead of the specified one. I don't really understand what you mean by "activate" it. Nor, actually, do i understand why having to use manual throttle control means you need long runways. (Most pilots do takeoffs and landings manually in any case, it's the fun part of flying airliners! ;-) )

Regards

Pete

[plowry]

Pete I think the problem I have may be caused by the jitter I get in the CH throttles when pushed forward out of the notched idle position. If I calibrate in FSUIPC with forward, idle, and reverse set zones the throttles work as they should and the TOGA activates the armed autothrottle as it should with no cut out. If, however, I increase the power to 40% of N1 before selecting theTOGA (as we are supposed to do) the autothrottle engages and then immediately cuts out. At 40% the throttle jitter is signifiant. I suspect my CH throttles are not what they once were and I will just have to live with not increasing power from idle before selecting the TOGA. I will have my reversers though and can land without breaking limitations.

Peter.

[Pete Dowson]

If, however, I increase the power to 40% of N1 before selecting theTOGA (as we are supposed to do) the autothrottle engages and then immediately cuts out. At 40% the throttle jitter is signifiant. I suspect my CH throttles are not what they once were and I will just have to live with not increasing power from idle before selecting the TOGA.

Shame that the NGX doesn't have some sort of sensitivity setting to allow for throttle jitter. I think the iFly one has. There are three alternatives I can think of:

1. Push to 40% and watch it stabilise, as you should before pressing TO/GA, then just quickly push it all the way up before actually pressing it. That's going to be pretty close to reality.

2. Program a button to operate the FSUIPC "throttles off" control, and either press that at the same time as TO/GA, or even add it to the actions for the TO/GA button (maybe press =throttles off, release = TO/GA?)

3. Take off using manual control to target N1, as also does happen frequently for real. Taking off and landing are two of the pleasures in flying airliners. The rest is management. ;-)

Regards

Pete

[plowry]

Thanks for those suggestions Pete. One or all should do me. My son fles a 738 and quite agrees it is mostly management. He considers autoland to be boring and the sim work he has to do to be some of the most fun.

Peter

[fatbird]

Hi Pete,

After reading a lot of posts about A/THR, TOGA and Throttles, I am completely confused.

I have FSX, FSUIPC4 updated and legal, PMDG B737 NGX and 2 quadrants of Saitek Throttles.

My throttles are calibrated with FSUIPC, reverse included, without any problems.

My problem begins when I use A/THR and TOGA.

Frequently there is a throttle which is operated by A/THR and the other doesn’t. That starts after pressing TOGA and remains during all the flight, so I have to adjust them manually all the time.

Have you any possible expanation for that problem?

Thank you in advance

Fatbird

[fatbird]

I`d like to rectify my last post.

That starts always during intial climb (using TOGA) and remains intermitently during the flight, so I have to adjust them manually frequently.

[Pete Dowson]

Have you any possible expanation for that problem?

FSUIPC doesn't know or care about what thrust mode your AutoThrottle is in. Perhaps you need to disconnect FSUIPC's assignments to throttle when A/T is active -- there are FSUIPC-added controls to for "throttles off" and "throttles on" (even "throttles toggle"). But note also that FSUIPC does NOT send throttle commands unless the throttle axes are moving. Maybe you have too much jitter in the axes, in which case you need to park them in a stable position, like full or idle.

Otherwise I think you'll need assistance form PMDG support. I'm afraid I do not use their aircraft at all. You could use FSUIPC's logging to see what it is doing. There are plenty of ways of investigating, but I'm afraid not being a PMDG user I cannot really help.

If you do find more information and you need it explained, by all means show me and I'll do my best.

Pete

[fatbird]

Tank you very much Pete.

Fatbird

[Hesynergy]

... I'm afraid not being a PMDG user I cannot really help.

...Pete

I am just curious, you, having such a terrific home cockpit, why you dont fly the NGX?

Would you comment on that please?

Thanks,

Chas

[Pete Dowson]

I am just curious, you, having such a terrific home cockpit, why you dont fly the NGX?

Would you comment on that please?

The NGX is an all-encompassing self-contained sim, with excellent cockpit graphics. It does not suit real hardware. The aircraft I use has NO panels whatsoever, no virtual panel, no 2D panel. It doesn't need one because I have real instruments. There are 8 screens in a real 737 cockpit -- admittedly I have only 7 because there's no room for the lower centre DU (I can show its content on the Upper DU) -- how would I drive those from the NGX? It isn't on!

Even with the SDK allowing mapping of outputs and controls (events) allowing most inputs, it wouldn't be possible to drive the PFD, ND, EICAS and CDU screens properly from their software. If PMDG had done as iFly have done and produced a cockpit builders version with all those modules separate from FSX then it would have actually been possible, and might then have been more acceptable.

However, bear in mind I started this cockpit business a long time ago, and have until recently used Project Magenta throughout (I now use a mixture of PM and TSR software, plus my own). PMDG NGX and iFly NG are very recent by comparison.

Regards

Pete