PFC Controls & 4.904/PFCFSX.dll 4.41

[cavaricooper]

Pete-

I'm hesitant to ask this, but I have done a LOT of troubleshooting, and simply do not have another thought at the moment (although in my case, that's not unusual ;) )

Since the new (non signed) versions of PFCFSX.dll and FSUIPC I have been having a problem with my #2 throttle losing position. The N1 drops to idle and visually the throttle lever

also moves to idle. At that time the NGX Auto-Throttle disconnects. Initially I thought it was a bad pot, but callibration and PFC tests show steady predictable movement

throughtout the range of the #2 throttle. Then I thought it might be a power spike. I moved supply UPS' and even tried an alternate power supply. Nothing changes.

The ONLY repeatable way to fix the issue is to restart PFCFSX.dll and FSUIPC.dll- then all is well- usually for the rest of the flight. The throttle lever moves correctly and A/T can

again engage and control thrust.

Could something in FSUIPC have changed? I map the throttles through PFCFSX.dll but the reversers (that do have n_throttle cut programmed in their axis') and the flap and

spoiler are all through FSUIPC.

No finger pointing... just a hesitant request for a look-see...... Ta!

Carl Avari-Cooper

[cavaricooper]

BTW Pete- I should add I am using their 737TQ so Throttle 2 is on the 5th Throtle Quadrant slider/axis (traditionally Mixture 1), however, I am using the USER CUSTOM PROFILLE- NOT their 737TQ profile... as Flaps/Spoliers/Reversers work through FSUIPC.....

Are there any other SERIAL version PFC users w/ issues...?

C

[Pete Dowson]

Since the new (non signed) versions of PFCFSX.dll and FSUIPC I have been having a problem with my #2 throttle losing position. The N1 drops to idle and visually the throttle lever

also moves to idle. At that time the NGX Auto-Throttle disconnects. Initially I thought it was a bad pot, but callibration and PFC tests show steady predictable movement

throughtout the range of the #2 throttle. Then I thought it might be a power spike. I moved supply UPS' and even tried an alternate power supply. Nothing changes.

The ONLY repeatable way to fix the issue is to restart PFCFSX.dll and FSUIPC.dll- then all is well- usually for the rest of the flight. The throttle lever moves correctly and A/T can

again engage and control thrust.

Strange. I use PFCFSX.DLL for my cockpit controls (the full dual control 737NG 'pit from PFC) and have no such problem. And certainly there's been no change in this for years. Are you sure you don't have some conflicting assignment in FS or FSUIPC?

Could something in FSUIPC have changed?

No, nothing's changed for a long time in any such area. And you've really proved that it works okay by saying "The ONLY repeatable way to fix the issue is to restart PFCFSX.dll and FSUIPC.dll- then all is well- usually for the rest of the flight.". But, I don't understand really what you mean by "restarting" PFCFSX.dll and FSUIPC.dll. The only way to "restart" FSUIPC is by restarting FS. You can get PFCFSX to restart by changing the COM port to none and then back again, as if the COM port had changed, Is that what you are doing?

I map the throttles through PFCFSX.dll but the reversers (that do have n_throttle cut programmed in their axis') and the flap and

spoiler are all through FSUIPC.

All my PFC axes are assigned and calibrated in PFCFSX except for Rudder and Steering Tiller, which are mapped direct to calibration in FSUIPC so that I can get the gradual transfer of steering from tiller to rudder as groundspeed increases when on the takeoff roll. But if I didn't have a tiller they'd all be in PFCFSX.

Of course I don't fly the PMDG aircraft (as it won't work with Project Magenta or without its own cockpit), but I wouldn't have thought that would make a difference -- though it might be worth checking what happens with other aircraft. Also check that it isn't some simulated fault or problem, like engine icing for instance. Maybe your anti-ice switching is only operating on Engine 1.

Otherwise all I can suggest is logging axes in FSUIPC to try to identify where or how the inputs are being lost or overridden -- it does sound more like interference than real loss of input.

Pete

[cavaricooper]

Pete-

"Strange. I use PFCFSX.DLL for my cockpit controls (the full dual control 737NG 'pit from PFC) and have no such problem. And certainly there's been no change in this for years. Are you sure you don't have some conflicting assignment in FS or FSUIPC?"

No- ONLY Flap, Spoiler and Reversers in FSUIPC (but they do have the Throttle N_ Cut function-twice- enabled in their axis sweep)

"No, nothing's changed for a long time in any such area. And you've really proved that it works okay by saying "The ONLY repeatable way to fix the issue is to restart PFCFSX.dll and FSUIPC.dll- then all is well- usually for the rest of the flight.". But, I don't understand really what you mean by "restarting" PFCFSX.dll and FSUIPC.dll. The only way to "restart" FSUIPC is by restarting FS. You can get PFCFSX to restart by changing the COM port to none and then back again, as if the COM port had changed, Is that what you are doing?"

No- I simply go into FSUIPC and PFRCFSX.dlls and then exit- get the message about reloading settings....

"All my PFC axes are assigned and calibrated in PFCFSX except for Rudder and Steering Tiller, which are mapped direct to calibration in FSUIPC so that I can get the gradual transfer of steering from tiller to rudder as groundspeed increases when on the takeoff roll. But if I didn't have a tiller they'd all be in PFCFSX.

Of course I don't fly the PMDG aircraft (as it won't work with Project Magenta or without its own cockpit), but I wouldn't have thought that would make a difference -- though it might be worth checking what happens with other aircraft. Also check that it isn't some simulated fault or problem, like engine icing for instance. Maybe your anti-ice switching is only operating on Engine 1.

Otherwise all I can suggest is logging axes in FSUIPC to try to identify where or how the inputs are being lost or overridden -- it does sound more like interference than real loss of input."

I will start logging and post here after a loss of throttle position/control on Engine 2- no icing issues...as you told me earlier- PFCFSX.dll will not work for anything but default aircraft in re. Flap, Sopilers and Reversers- I'm assuming since you use the default with altered .air files you do not experience the issue.....

Thanks for working through this with me.

C

[Pete Dowson]

No- ONLY Flap, Spoiler and Reversers in FSUIPC (but they do have the Throttle N_ Cut function-twice- enabled in their axis sweep)

You've double checked that nothing is assigned in FS itself?

No- I simply go into FSUIPC and PFRCFSX.dlls and then exit- get the message about reloading settings....horizon = ipc.readSB(0x793D)

In FSUIPC that merely makes it rescan USB HID devices. That would have no effect on a COM device, but it does make one suspicious about interference from a USB device, or maybe a USB driver with no actual device now connected.

With PFCFSX i don't think simply going into the options and coming out again does anything. What's this "reloading settings" message? From which?

..as you told me earlier- PFCFSX.dll will not work for anything but default aircraft in re. Flap, Sopilers and Reversers

Well, I certainly don't know that one way or the other. I must have been referring you to someone else's findings. There are many add-on aircraft which respond quite normally to the standard FS flaps, spoilers and reverse facilities in PFCFSX.

- I'm assuming since you use the default with altered .air files you do not experience the issue.....

Which issue is that?

Regards

Pete

[cavaricooper]

Pete-

Just did a flight and at the LAST BIT had the issue- Logs attached. Had to single engine taxi to stand....LOL good practice!

C

[cavaricooper]

Did the logs go through Pete?.......... don't see them attached......

[Pete Dowson]

Did the logs go through Pete?.......... don't see them attached......

Paste text files into your message. It is easier. If it is very long, just extract the relevant part, and a bit before for context

Haven't you looked yourself for anything suspicious?

Pete

[cavaricooper]

"Haven't you looked yourself for anything suspicious?"

Yes, I did; and found that the "Throttle2 cut" command was being sent (from the #2 reverser axis). Increasing the null zone on top disables this issue and allest gut once more :).

Ta Pete- as usual, your familiarity with the ins and outs of FSUIPC sent me down the correct path. Sorry for the delay in answering, however life got in the way for a bit :).

On another note- I now have a tiller working as well. I unchecked the (filter) boxes in PFCFSX.dll for rudder, calibrated in FSUIPC and all works ok. Is there anything else that I can do to DESELECT PFCFSX callibration and avoid any potential conflice w/ FSUIPC? It seems to work ok, but with the Spoiler, Reversers and Flap axis I used the user profile and so do not even have those axis in PFC- thereby totally avoiding any conflict.

I remember reading about the issue of the rudder not moving during ground control checks... is there a solution to this? It works fine after the changeover from tiller to rudder during the TO roll. It would be nice however to get rudder movement for pre-flight visually and especially on the systems page of the lower display... any thoughts?

C

[Pete Dowson]

On another note- I now have a tiller working as well. I unchecked the (filter) boxes in PFCFSX.dll for rudder, calibrated in FSUIPC and all works ok. Is there anything else that I can do to DESELECT PFCFSX callibration and avoid any potential conflice w/ FSUIPC? It seems to work ok, but with the Spoiler, Reversers and Flap axis I used the user profile and so do not even have those axis in PFC- thereby totally avoiding any conflict.

If things are okay they are okay.

I remember reading about the issue of the rudder not moving during ground control checks... is there a solution to this? It works fine after the changeover from tiller to rudder during the TO roll. It would be nice however to get rudder movement for pre-flight visually and especially on the systems page of the lower display... any thoughts?

The real rudder position is available is another offset, and some EICAS programs (like the purpose-written one I use in my cockpit) read and display that correctly. If you are using a standard or add-on aircraft EICAS gauge then there is no way unless you disuse the FSUIPC steering tiller and use the FSX steering tiller instead. Then you will have steering on both rudder and tiller so won't be able to check the rudder whilst taxiing without veering from side to side.

Your choice.

Pete

[cavaricooper]

"Then you will have steering on both rudder and tiller so won't be able to check the rudder whilst taxiing without veering from side to side."

Pete- is this a "virtual" check? I cannot see rudder movement visually or on the System's Page. Yes, it is an add-on aircraft (NGX). That little niggle aside it is a fantastic feature of FSUIPC and has really added to the immersion factor (to be able to drop the left hand to the tiller and then track the centerline; or to be able to line up and begin the TO roll with the steering on the left hand, moving to the yoke as we collect speed). Is there any possibility of adding the rudder ability on the ground, whilst retaining the transition from tiller coarse to rudder fine steering?

Keep in mind I usually fly a Ryanair 738, so currently the system page option is not needed. Once the 777 arrives, it will be :).

Best- C

[Pete Dowson]

"Then you will have steering on both rudder and tiller so won't be able to check the rudder whilst taxiing without veering from side to side."

Pete- is this a "virtual" check?

Sorry, what do you mean?

I cannot see rudder movement visually or on the System's Page.

When doing what? Using the tiller or rudder? Via FSUIPC or directly in FSX?

Is there any possibility of adding the rudder ability on the ground, whilst retaining the transition from tiller coarse to rudder fine steering?

Since the FSUIPC steering tiller is done by driving the FSX rudder, how would allowing the rudder to operate at the same time as the tiller help? You'd get both tiller and rudder doing the same thing! I thought you said you liked the effect FSUIPC is giving you. If you want to use the rudder then just don't bother with the tiller assignment, then FSUIPC won't be doing the blending or transfer..

Keep in mind I usually fly a Ryanair 738, so currently the system page option is not needed

So why on Earth do you want rudder operating whist taxiing? The only possible use would be to see the deflection on the lower DU page showing the surface positions. You certainly can't see the actual rudder from the cockpit.

This is getting very confusing.

Regards

Pete

[cavaricooper]

Pete-

I was just hoping to find a way to do a rudder check while in taxi. Currently I can see it move when stopped and using the tiller. Rudder pedal operation at stop has no effect on rudder position. I wanted to be able to hold the taxi line with the tiller, while doing full deflection rudder checks. I guess this runs up against a limitation of FSX? My original thought was to be able to do rudder checks (and see the corresponding rudder position on the DU.... but if I am reading you correctly- that is not possible at this time.

Still, being able to taxi with the left hand, line up and then transition to rudder fine steering during the T/O roll is wonderful.... Sorry about any confusion!

Best- C

[Pete Dowson]

I was just hoping to find a way to do a rudder check while in taxi.

In what way, "check"? See it move? As far as I know, aircraft with tillers have cockpits from which there's no way to see the rudder. So, how are you checking? Airliners like the 737 show the positions of the control surfaces on a page on the lower DU. With programs which display this by reading data through FSUIPC, the rudder position which would otherwise be set by the rudder pedals can be fed to them instead of the true FSX rudder position. This is automiatically done for the software I use, but otherwise can be faked through the Lua spoofing facility.

Currently I can see it move when stopped and using the tiller.

Do you get out of the aircraft to do this, or have you got large mirrors on the the outside of the cockpit? If you are outside who is operating the tiller or rudder pedals?

I wanted to be able to hold the taxi line with the tiller, while doing full deflection rudder checks.

I don't know much about other aircraft, but even at taxi speeds, the 737 limits rudder deflection to 7 degrees when the pedals are pushed completely over. It isn't possible to do full deflection of the actual rudder, only full readouts of the intended position.

I guess this runs up against a limitation of FSX?

No. It's a result of using a tiller control which is implemented by operating the FSX rudders. You can't have smooth changeover from tiller to rudder if the rudder is operating fully all of the time in any case. Don't you see? What you are wanting just isn't logical.when FSX is doing steering by rudder input.

Why not just stop assigning your tiller to FSUIPC's steering tiller and instead use the FSX steering tiller control? Then tiller and rudder are independent. You won't get the smooth changover of effect, that's all.

My original thought was to be able to do rudder checks (and see the corresponding rudder position on the DU.... but if I am reading you correctly- that is not possible at this time.

It is either using FS's tiller, or using cockpit software capable of reading the FSUIPC offset for the actual rudder pedal position. I use the latter method.

Regards

Pete