Going nuts, I cant get winds to work in fs2004

[SimRandy]

hi,

i must be going nuts. i try everything in the weather windows. if i use custom setting, just how does the local thing work. how do i make the winds work for a 5 mile radius from any airport.

also, whats strange, is that when the winds do take (see last parag), and as i app the runway, my plane vains towards the winds. i do not even have to crab, cause its doing it by its self. its the same effect that happens on the runway, when the winds turn the plane towards them.

i know that pete use to have a taxi wind thing, but says its not needed in fs2004. that being the case, how can i set diff. wind layers, where on the runway it is 3 knots, but above it to, lets say, to 2500 feet, i have strong winds. i have done the + and - add winds layers, but they just dont seem to stick.

an example is, i set in the winds windows for advance stuff, 3 knot wind to 500 feet (also in pete's area, i set max surface wind to 3 k). i then hit the add wind layer + icon and add 16k winds from 500 to 2500 feet. i take off and PFD shows 3 k winds, but passing 500 feet, it still shows 3 knots!!! the only way i get any kinda wind, at least showing in PM, is by setting the wind from 0 to 100,000 feet, but as i mentioned, upon app/landing there is now this vaining toward the wind. there is no wind feel hitting the plane or wanting to push it sideways. its on auto grab!!!!

i give up

randy

any help will be great.

randy

[Pete Dowson]

i must be going nuts. i try everything in the weather windows. if i use custom setting, just how does the local thing work. how do i make the winds work for a 5 mile radius from any airport.

I don't think you can limit the range of winds like that. As for how FS's dialogues work, I to find them quite confusing, but then I've not tried any of their "Help" text. Doesn't it explain anything there?

also, whats strange, is that when the winds do take (see last parag), and as i app the runway, my plane vains towards the winds.

Weathervaning still happens in FS2004, though I find it is much reduced compared to FS2002 and FS200 where it was ridiculous. In a light aircraft like the Cessna 172 or 182 any winds over a few knots have a noticeable affect. I think it isn't far of reality now though, compatring it with my experiences in a real Cessna 150 trainer years ago. With any winds over 10-15 knots it was a devil of a job to steer straight on the ground.

i know that pete use to have a taxi wind thing, but says its not needed in fs2004.

Well I certainly thought that, and still do, but I gave in to requests for it and spent many hours trying to make one work, without success. I just can't get into the parts of FS2004 I would need to to implement it. Sorry. I may have another go when I get time, but I couldn't afford to let everything else slide.

Regards,

Pete

[SimRandy]

hi pete,

the ground vaining effect i can understand, but what about, that its hppening up in the air. its the same effect as on the ground, but while on app i have it. the plane is vaining while in flight, for a big plane like the 737, would not its speed and wt, make it drift instead of vaining. again i am not touching any controls and everything is centered, yet it crabs by its self.

is this correct what i am seeing. did not see this happen in fs2002.

randy

[Pete Dowson]

the ground vaining i can see, but what about, that me, its happening up in the air. its the same effect as on the ground, but while on app i have it. is this correct. i do not remember seeing it happen in fs2002.

There's no such thing as weathervaning in the air. When flying, your aircraft is in the moving air. If there is a sidewind, you will drift to one side, but you never get blown around to face into wind, as there is no "pivot" operating as there is on the ground. You and the air mass are simply moving relative to the ground, but your nose is pointing where you tell it to, and your propellers or jets are pulling you though the air in that direction. Ignore the gound for now. That is sweeping by in another direction! :)

To compensate for a cross-wind you can either crab to the runway -- i.e. turn towards the wind enough so that you stay in line with the extended runway centreline, or you can try fling "croos-controlled" -- that it you head towards the runway, but use the ailerons to turn into wind (dip the windward wing) and use OPPOSITE rudder to stop you actually turning as a result.

Most airliner pilots seem to use crabbing, rather than risk any chance of a wing strike or one of the jet engine pods hitting ground. The strain then is placed on the landing gear, unless he can straighten up just before touch down. Some crabbed landings I've seen videos of at Kai Tek are frightening! Looks like the landing gear would be torn straight off at some of the touchdown angles!

Both techiniques are possible in a light aircraft, and fun to practice. In fact, when my eyes were good enough for me to fly for real, the cross-controlled approach was really the most 'fun' in a Cessna 150. :)

I don't think any of this is really any different in FS2004, by the way. Maybe a touch more realistic, if anything.

Regards,

Pete

[skink]

I think the original writer was referring to a behavior that I have observed in FS2004 also -- as the aircraft (in the air) changes suddenly from one windfield to another, it can go through a somewhat violent heading change. I think the effect is due to the suddenness of the shear induced by the wind model. I haven't looked into it specifically to see if the result is the aircraft now at a crab angle to maintain its original track. I'll try it next time I fly with a strong wind.

[Pete Dowson]

I think the original writer was referring to a behavior that I have observed in FS2004 also -- as the aircraft (in the air) changes suddenly from one windfield to another, it can go through a somewhat violent heading change.

Ah, wind shear is something else. But that would mainly give a sudden change in airspeed, sometimes fatally so, more than a weather vaning, though obviously a light plane would get swung about a bit. But if it survived it, it would settle down again.

Pete

[airforce2]

Pete;

Not completely true...real aircraft do indeed weathervane in the air. The airplane rotates about the CG...and the side load imposed by a crosswind striking the vertical tail at considerable arm (distance) from the CG will produce a very real leeward yawing moment...aka weathervane. This is most noticeable on takeoff with a strong x-wind...as soon as you break ground (where you've been steering straight down the rwy with the aid of nosewheel steering) the airplane will yaw to put the pointy-end right into the relative wind. The cause is the fact that the airplane was not flying directly into the relative wind while on the ground, and at liftoff, it still has a considerable inertial vector in the direction of its ground track at liftoff (straight down the runway), leaving the aircraft in flight at an angle offset laterally to the relative wind. If one adds rudder to counteract the yaw, the ground track will shift downwind and progressively less rudder will be needed until, after a few seconds, the airplane is at equilibrium into the r.w.

I'd be surprised if crabbed landings in any transport category aircraft are enything but poor pilot technique. As I understand certification standards (FAA and/or CAA), the aircraft should be capable of holding a wing-low slip with the fuselage pointed straight down the rwy...with an adequate bank angle safety margin...at the max certified x-wind. The side loads imposed on the side braces and support trunions in a crabbed landing are pretty severe.

Regards

[Pete Dowson]

Not completely true...real aircraft do indeed weathervane in the air.

On a sudden change of wind direction, yet, but that's a passing thing, unless he's talking about a situation like a tornado or whirlwind, which would have the arcraft spinning for sure!

I'd be surprised if crabbed landings in any transport category aircraft are enything but poor pilot technique.

Strange. Most all videos I've see of cross-wind landings at Kai-Tek where certainly crabbed.

Regards,

Pete

[airforce2]

Pete;

I don't doubt that guys land 'em crabbed. It may be that the pax get uncomfortable coming down final in a bank...it does feel a wee bit unnatural, especially if you don't know what's going on. In my years of GucciJet aviatin' (in Gulfstreams) I generally employ the technique of flying final approach in a crab until about 1-2 mile from the threshold, then establish a wing-low slip in plenty of time to be stable for the landing.

Then there's the whole discussion of the "reverse weathervaning" or "buggywhip"...when you touch down in a crab the pointy-end will swing rapidly to point along the ground track.

I used to be an instructor in the T-38 Talon, which is one jet you do land in a crab intentionally (but it's light). That buggywhip effect would spin yer eyeballs pretty good when you planted one in a stiff x-breeze.

Cheers

[SimRandy]

hi pete and bob,

in regards to this vaining thing, i should restate that once i am at the local weather airport on app (i dont know how far out this extends from the field), but the field that i made the local weather for, and am heading towards the runway, in a high cross wind, the plane is pointing toward the source of the winds. IF I TRY TO TURN THE PLANE A BIT TO FACE STRAIGHT AT THE RUNWAY, IT DOES NOT DRIFT WITH THE WIND, BUT TURNS OR YAWS BACK, TOWARDS THE WIND SOURCE.

this must have something to do with the wind hitting the rudder surface, and yawing it.

randy

[Pete Dowson]

this must have something to do with the wind hitting the rudder surface, and yawing it.

Unless the wind has suddenly changed direction that should not be possible whilst in the air, as the whole aircraft is moving with the air mass. I would give up Flight Simulator and try another program if I thought it was really that bad. There must surely be some other explanation for what you are experiencing.

Pete