Captain Sim 727 and FSUIPC

[Bob Familton]

I have a friend who has the Captain Sim 727. He cannot do a turning pushback with Shift-P-1 or Shift-P-2. When he tries Shift-P-1 or -2 it pushes back in a straight line. He has sent many  requests to Captain Sim to solve his problem and has never received a solution.  The problem has been reported by others for years and some say Shift-P-1 or -2 work but others say they don't.

 

He has the latest unregistered FSUIPC.

 

He can use Rob's groundhandling pushback gauge and make turning pushback in both directions. I even made him a simple pushback gauge that sends the pushback and either 1 or 2. It works fine. The animation gauge in the Captain Sim 727 sends EXIT OPEN:1 for the forward door, EXIT OPEN:3 for the rear door and EXIT OPEN:4 for the service door.  If he sends these commands (Shift-E-1, Shift-E-3 or Shift-E-4) from his keyboard none of them work to operate all of the doors individually.  The only door that opens is the forward door on any of the commands which by the way will open just with Shift-E, alone.

 

I asked him to check his FSUIPC log when he uses the keyboard to try and turn and it shows the pushback and select 1 or 2 commands.

 

Is there anything in his unregistered FSUIPC that could cause this problem.  We tried playing around with several FSUIPC timing options with no avail.

 

Rob's groundhandling gauge and the one I made work. Can there be some timing function that can be set on his FSUIPC to solve the problem?.

 

Is there any difference between the unregistered version versus the paid version that may explain the problem?

 

He can do turning pushbacks with Shift-P-1 or 2 on all stock and addon planes while his unregistered FSUIPC is installed.

 

I hope I have described the problem in enough detail and described what troubleshooting we have done.

 

Thanks, Bob.

[Andydigital]

Its very simple really, CS are trapping the number keys for their own use with their aircraft, there is nothing FSUIPC can do to restore proper functionality of those keys. The number keys across the top of the keyboard should NEVER be used by any aircraft for anything, as FSX uses them extensively to manage systems like selecting ATC, engines,doors, plus a myriad of other systems.

[Pete Dowson]

Its very simple really, CS are trapping the number keys for their own use with their aircraft, there is nothing FSUIPC can do to restore proper functionality of those keys. The number keys across the top of the keyboard should NEVER be used by any aircraft for anything, as FSX uses them extensively to manage systems like selecting ATC, engines,doors, plus a myriad of other systems.

 

The default assignments in FS for the 1-4 main keyboard keys are "SELECT 1 ... SELECT 4", so with a registered FSUIPC he could get over it using multiple assignments to a button or other keypress, to "toggle pushback" and "select N", or even just assign 4 other keys, untrapped by the CS aircraft. Even direct assignment in FSUIPC to the same 1-4 keys might override CS's capture, depending on the order of the hooking chain.

Actually, if he wants to save money and not register FSUIPC, there is a way in FS itself --  I've just checked the assignments list in FSX. Scroll down to "Select item 1 ... 4" in the Button/Keys assignments list and you'll see the assignment to 1-4. Just reassign them to 4 other keypresses not used by CS or other important functions.

 

Regards

Pete

[Bob Familton]

Hi all. Thanks for the replies. How is that some users can evidently use Shift-P-1 or 2 for pushback

 

Its very simple really, CS are trapping the number keys for their own use with their aircraft, there is nothing FSUIPC can do to restore proper functionality of those keys. The number keys across the top of the keyboard should NEVER be used by any aircraft for anything, as FSX uses them extensively to manage systems like selecting ATC, engines,doors, plus a myriad of other systems.

 

Hi Andy. I use the numbers 1-4 on the top row of my keyboard for engines, exits and pushback along with the poper other key command, and have for years. Are you saying we should use Shift-P and the num pad keys or shift -E and the num pad keys? Thanks, Bob.

[Bob Familton]

The default assignments in FS for the 1-4 main keyboard keys are "SELECT 1 ... SELECT 4", so with a registered FSUIPC he could get over it using multiple assignments to a button or other keypress, to "toggle pushback" and "select N", or even just assign 4 other keys, untrapped by the CS aircraft. Even direct assignment in FSUIPC to the same 1-4 keys might override CS's capture, depending on the order of the hooking chain.

Actually, if he wants to save money and not register FSUIPC, there is a way in FS itself --  I've just checked the assignments list in FSX. Scroll down to "Select item 1 ... 4" in the Button/Keys assignments list and you'll see the assignment to 1-4. Just reassign them to 4 other keypresses not used by CS or other important functions.

 

Regards

Pete

Hi Pete. Are you saying that nobody with the CS727, and either the stock registered or unregistered version of FSUIPC, should be able do a turning pushback with Shift-P-1 or Shift-P-2? Some users, including the Captain himself, have said that they can do a turning pushback by using Shift-P-1 or Shift-P-2. They made no mention of doing any changes of key asignments or FSUIPC mods. That's the mystery. Thanks for your help. Regards, Bob.

[Andydigital]

 

Hi Andy. I use the numbers 1-4 on the top row of my keyboard for engines, exits and pushback along with the poper other key command, and have for years. Are you saying we should use Shift-P and the num pad keys or shift -E and the num pad keys? Thanks, Bob.

I misunderstood what you meant, if the numbers keys across the top of the keyboard work for other features even when using the CS727 then its possible you are not using the keys properly then. Try pressing and releasing Shift + P together then wait a second and finally press 1 or 2 to go left or right. If you try pressing all three keys at once it won't normally work, or at least has been the case in my experience.

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Pete. Are you saying that nobody with the CS727, and either the stock registered or unregistered version of FSUIPC, should be able do a turning pushback with Shift-P-1 or Shift-P-2? Some users, including the Captain himself, have said that they can do a turning pushback by using Shift-P-1 or Shift-P-2. They made no mention of doing any changes of key asignments or FSUIPC mods. That's the mystery. Thanks for your help. Regards, Bob.

 

I am not saying anything whatsoever about the CS727. Go and read my reply (to Andy, incidentally, not you).

 

In all this FSUIPC is irrelevant in any case. You are really in the wrong forum.  I was only giving solutions to the problem Andy mentioned. If that isn't your problem then I'm sorry, I was only trying to help!

 

Pete

[Bob Familton]

I am not saying anything whatsoever about the CS727. Go and read my reply (to Andy, incidentally, not you).

 

In all this FSUIPC is irrelevant in any case. You are really in the wrong forum.  I was only giving solutions to the problem Andy mentioned. If that isn't your problem then I'm sorry, I was only trying to help!

 

Pete

Hi Pete. Thanks. He has been fighting this problem for years and has never received any solution from the CS Forum. Since FSUIPC is required to run the CS727 we thought that there might be some setting in FSUIPC that would allow the turning pushback, or maybe that the registered version was required. I personally know of one of my other friends who has a registered FSUIPC and the CS 727 and he can make turning pushbacks with Shift+P-1 or 2. That's why we tried asking here. I really do appreciate all the help from you and Andy. I love FSUIPC! Best regards, Bob.

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Pete. Thanks. He has been fighting this problem for years and has never received any solution from the CS Forum. Since FSUIPC is required to run the CS727 we thought that there might be some setting in FSUIPC that would allow the turning pushback, or maybe that the registered version was required. I personally know of one of my other friends who has a registered FSUIPC and the CS 727 and he can make turning pushbacks with Shift+P-1 or 2. That's why we tried asking here. I really do appreciate all the help from you and Andy. I love FSUIPC! Best regards, Bob.

 

Well the thing that Registration will do which an unregistered install won't is handle the situation where the add-on aircraft gauges are constantly sending FS controls. The mechanism whereby FS sees the SELECT 1-4 events after a relevant control like Toggle Pushback depends on the SELECT being the very next control it sees. If another control intervenes then the SELECTs do nothing.

 

There are several add-on aircraft which do constantly send controls to FS at such a rate that one or more is almost bound to intervene. I think some of the PMDG ones are like that. I don't know about the CS727, but if it is doing that then, yes, registering FSUIPC wil help because then FSUIPC will hook the relevant controls, like Toggle Pushback, and re-associate them with any SELECTs thereafter as long as they occur within a certain time (adjustable I think, but the default is fine).

 

There is one easy way to see if this is indeed the problem with the CS727. Just enable Event logging, in the Logging tab of FSUIPC. That's possible in an unregistered install as well. If the log is filling up quickly with control events occurring, then that's the reason. It will log the Toggle Pushback and the subsequent Select, and you can check whether there are intervening controls.

 

[LATER]

I just noticed that you already did the logging:

 

I asked him to check his FSUIPC log when he uses the keyboard to try and turn and it shows the pushback and select 1 or 2 commands.

 

That actually in itself makes Andy's original thoughts irrelevant. Sorry i didn'ty spot that in my earlier reply. But did that log show other controls intervening between the pushback and select?

 

Pete

[Bob Familton]

Hi Pete. I just came across  an old thread about this subject with you and Rob B:

 

http://forum.simflight.com/topic/43768-pushback-turn-problem-and-fsuipc/

 

I really believe that iyou found the problem. I remember when my friend sent me copies of his log to me that there were lots of other intervening monitoring events like aileron and elevator even though there was no elevator or aileron movement. I assume that the latest non-registered version does not have the ability to interpet the pushback or exit commands when they are interupted and the registered version does. If that's the case I will recommend him to register his.

 

Is there any particular setup to enable this function in the registered version. I don't remember ever setting anything up in my FSUIPC to do this. Is it stock?

 

Thanks so very much. We really do appreiate the help. It's a shame that the CS team could not have notified him of this potential problem after years of searching. This explains why some who had a registered version maybe had no problem and others without a registered version did have problems.

 

Best regards, Bob..

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Pete. I just came across  an old thread about this subject with you and Rob B:

 

http://forum.simflight.com/topic/43768-pushback-turn-problem-and-fsuipc/

 

Wow! That was virtually the first official version of FSUIPC for FSX! Even then, as you'll see if you read to the end, the problem was resolved. In an unregistered install FSUIPC4 does not intercept controls at all, it just logs them if they occur (as in FSUIPC3).

 

I really believe that iyou found the problem. I remember when my friend sent me copies of his log to me that there were lots of other intervening monitoring events like aileron and elevator even though there was no elevator or aileron movement. I assume that the latest non-registered version does not have the ability to interpet the pushback or exit commands when they are interupted and the registered version does. If that's the case I will recommend him to register his.

 

An unregistered install (not "version") doesn't intercept any controls whatsever, and so can do nothing to help. The logging is a passive business based on seeing messages flowing through the FSX windows procedure.

 

Is there any particular setup to enable this function in the registered version.

 

No, it's a default action. Please see the FSUIPC documents. It's controlled by the TimeForSelect parameter (described in the Advanced User's guide), and is a reasonably prominent feature on the Miscellaneous options tab in FSUIPC options (described in the User Guide), where it is described as "Time allowed for engine/door select (0 = option off, pushback turn select too) secs" where you'll see the default is 4 seconds.

 

Pete

[Bob Familton]

Hi Pete. OK Thanks. So it's only available in the registered install. Is that correct. If so he will get his FSUIPC registered. Best regards, Bob.

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Pete. OK Thanks. So it's only available in the registered install. Is that correct. If so he will get his FSUIPC registered. Best regards, Bob.

 

Very few user facilities are available in an unregistered install. In that state FSUIPC merely performs its original free function, as an interface for add-ons.

 

Pete