TAT in P3Dv2

[mroschk]

Hello,

 

after first tests in P3Dv2 i noticed an issue in the Temperature.

Installed is FSUIPC 4.923, the latest for P3Dv2.

 

After takeoff, with a TAT of +60, which is much, i am now at 31000ft with a TAT of +75 which too much and higher

then on the ground??

 

I deleted first all weather seting to clear sky's.
 

Matthias

[Pete Dowson]

Hello,

 

after first tests in P3Dv2 i noticed an issue in the Temperature.

Installed is FSUIPC 4.923, the latest for P3Dv2.

 

After takeoff, with a TAT of +60, which is much, i am now at 31000ft with a TAT of +75 which too much and higher

then on the ground??

 

I deleted first all weather seting to clear sky's.

 

Matthias

 

There is a known temperature problem in P3Dv2, but whether this is the same I don't know. Nevertheless it needs reportinbg to Lockheed Martin on their Forum, not to me. FSUIPC is simply giving you what P3D gives it. And FSUIPC most certainly does not set any temperatures itself.

 

Pete

[mroschk]

Hello,

 

thanks for the answer.

 

I will Report this to LM

 

Matthias

[mroschk]

He Pete,

 

after some more tests...i think the v4.923 has any error.

Why?

 

I installed the new Version 4.923 in P3Dv2 and also in P3Dv1.4. Both a fresh install.

Now, as i wrote in the last post, there is the issue with the TAT in P3Dv2, ok.

But now i want to fly in P3Dv1.4 and had als a  wrong TAT but not the same then in P3Dv2.

In P3Dv1.4 i stand in EDDK with an SAT of -2° ( from Active Sky2012 in both Versions of P3D ) and a TAT of +28°.

After switching back in P3Dv1.4 to v4.92 i had in EDDK SAT -2° and TAT also -2°.

 

That is the reason i think there is anything wrong in Version 4.923, even if there is an issue in P3Dv2 for sure.

 

Matthias

[Pete Dowson]

after some more tests...i think the v4.923 has any error.

Why?

 

FSUIPC does not set temperature, and actually there is no way of separately setting SAT and TAT in any case! TAT is computed by the sim engine inside P3D's code.

 

You must report the problem to Lockheed Martin, though I think they already know about it, especially with Active Sky.

 

Try your tests without Active Sky.

 

Pete

[mroschk]

Pete,

 

i thought that you'd say that.

 

But THIS is not an issue by LM or Avtivs Sky because it is very easy:

 

Before here was a new FSUIPC v4.923 i had installed the previos Version of FSUIPC and here all works perfect!

The TAT ad SAT are displayed in Prosim and at this time i also used Active Sky for the weather.

 

Now i changed ONLY THE FSUIPC to v4.923 and i have the issue with the high TAT.

For all that i speak of Prepar3D v1.4, not Prepar3D v2 !!!

 

So, the only Thing is changed is the FSUIPC, nothing else.

So this must be the source of the issue and not anything else.

 

Matthias

[Pete Dowson]

So, the only Thing is changed is the FSUIPC, nothing else.

So this must be the source of the issue and not anything else.

 

Sorry, there is absolutely nothing in FSUIPC which sets any weather unless you have an application which is telling it to. AND there is no way at all to set the TAT, that is a computed value.

 

This is still pointing to a bug in P3D. Maybe, because of the difference in code sizes and other memory usage actions in FSUIPC, the memory arrangement of other things in P3D is a little different, and that different causes corruption or use of different uninitialised values. This sort of thing has hasppened before, many times.

 

If you don't believe me, so be it. Please yourself.

 

If you want me to look into what might be different you'll have to send me weather files (WX) which exhibit the symptom and tell me how to generate the problem. But I won't be able to spend much time on it and all I will be able to do is prove it isn't anything to do with FSUIPC.

 

Pete

[mroschk]

Hi Pete,

 

first .. you always speak of Prepar3D, but that is not correct.

There are 2 Version have to be dividet !!

 

P3D V1, the first one runs perfect with FSUIPC 4.92.

P3D V2 does not run with FSUIPC 4.92, but Need FSUIPC v4,923 !!

That is a difference !!

 

So i explain again and very short the difference in my both tests:

 

P3Dv1.4  + Active Sky 2012 + Prosim ( for the Logic ) + FSUIPC v4.92    ====>>> WORKS PERFECT

P3Dv1.4  + Active Sky 2012 + Prosim ( for the Logic ) + FSUIPC v4.923  ====>>> GIVES ME A WRONG TAT

 

You see the only difference is FSUIPC

 

This brings me to the Point that only FSUIPC can be the reason for the wrong displayed TAT

 

Can you pls try it before you say you are right and i am wrong?

 

If you try it you will see the same result,beleave me !

I am not the only one with the same Problem with FSUIPC 4.923 !

And please ... i speak from Prepar3D v1.4, not Prepar3D v2 !!

 

Ahh, abnd you are right, the TAT is calculated, i know, but it is calculated by the SAT, which is given by FSUIPC.

 

 

Matthias

[Pete Dowson]

So i explain again and very short the difference in my both tests:

 

No, you are wrong. I understood you perfectly. But you did not read what I wrote in reply! I will repeat:

 

This is still pointing to a bug in P3D. Maybe, because of the difference in code sizes and other memory usage actions in FSUIPC, the memory arrangement of other things in P3D is a little different, and that different causes corruption or use of different uninitialised values. This sort of thing has hasppened before, many times.

 

This brings me to the Point that only FSUIPC can be the reason for the wrong displayed TAT

 

Only by virtue of a different memory arrangement, as I said. It still points to P3D.

 

Can you pls try it before you say you are right and i am wrong?

 

I am NOT saying you are wrong in what you observe, only in your diagnosis of the cause. And I cannot try it with Active Sky at present, probably never unless ASN will do the same next week. This is why I suggested you send me the WX fies from a saved flight in which it occurs.

 

Ahh, abnd you are right, the TAT is calculated, i know, but it is calculated by the SAT, which is given by FSUIPC.

 

It is NOT given by FSUIPC if you are using ActiveSky 2012 with its SimConnect interface. It is ActiveSky which sets SAT, in its METAR strings over the SimConnect interface. FSUIPC will only set these things if it is told to.

 

Maybe you should show me your FSUIPC settings too. If you are not using any of the weather facilities in FSUIPC it NEVER writes any weather data to P3D.

 

Pete

[hsors]

From the tests I performed with P3D v2 with FSUIPC v4.923, there is no problem with TAT on my side

As an example a record made at 13250 ft AMSL at a mach number of 0.7299

- FSUIPC reported TAT (offset &H11D0): 17.4°C   (raw unscaled value 4456)

- Identical to calculated value from SAT  [TAT (°K)=SAT(°K) * (1+0.2*mach*mach)]  [here SAT=-10.6°C that is 262.55°K)

Different other records gave similar concordant values

I made raw tests without any special met conditions (different P3Dv2 weather themes) and without any addon (other than FSUIPC)

I could suggest reported values are compared to calculated ones so as to sort out any possible discrepancies (that is you'll have to report recorded SAT and mach number)

 

I cannot answer for P3Dv1.4 I do not have

[Pete Dowson]

I cannot answer for P3Dv1.4 I do not have

 

Thanks Herve I'll reinstall 1.4 today and take a look.

 

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

If you try it you will see the same result,beleave

 

Okay. This morning I've gone to the trouble of reinstalling P3D 1.4 again -- something I'd hoped I'd left behind.

 

I'm not using Active Sky, just default weather. I used FSUIPC's Monitoring facilities (on the Logging tab) to log the TAT and SAT temperatures (offsets 11D0 and 0E8C, both U16 types).

 

On the ground I get these values:

 

   465367 Monitor IPC:11D0 (S16) = 3858

   465367 SimRead: 11D0="TOTAL AIR TEMPERATURE"

            FLT64: 15.0685825778

   475351 Monitor IPC:0E8C (S16) = 3854

   475351 SimRead: 0E8C="AMBIENT TEMPERATURE" [also 34A8]

            FLT64: 15.0539188814

 

(Note that the offset values are 256 x the temperature, to retain fractions).

 

Climbing to 17000 feet, the values with a static aircraft (.e. in slew) stay comparable all the way, to:

 

   495896 Monitor IPC:11D0 (S16) = -4819

   495896 SimRead: 11D0="TOTAL AIR TEMPERATURE"

            FLT64: -18.8283806794

   495896 Monitor IPC:0E8C (S16) = -4838

   495896 SimRead: 0E8C="AMBIENT TEMPERATURE" [also 34A8]

            FLT64: -18.9006768221

 

Releasing the slew and flying higher I get the expected sorts of differencs, like this at 45000 feet:

 

   962589 Monitor IPC:0E8C (S16) = -14435

   962589 SimRead: 0E8C="AMBIENT TEMPERATURE" [also 34A8]

            FLT64: -56.3924792267

   962620 Monitor IPC:11D0 (S16) = -9662

   962620 SimRead: 11D0="TOTAL AIR TEMPERATURE"

            FLT64: -37.7458117115

 

So, sorry, no I cannot reproduce the problem you see.

 

Maybe it is related to some settings you have in FSUIPC, but without seeing your INI file I really haven't the time to try every variation.

 

Regards

Pete

[mroschk]

Good Morning,

 

thats it...@Pete: You have not installed P3Dv1.4, but say to me that i am wrong.

I can also speek from the SAT, to come away from the TAT, because you always say this is calculated.

The SAT in EDDK yesterday has to be -2°, but was +18.

 

But that is not the Point. The Point is 1. i speak from the combination of P3Dv1.4 and FSUIPCv4.923.

I wrote you the conditions before.

 

WHY THE HELL SHOULD ANY OTHER PROGRAMM BE THE PROBLEM IF I CHANGE ONLY THE FSUIPC from 4.92 to 4.923 ???

 

That has NOTHING to do with another programs.

Why can you not understand this.

 

Please....before you again give a Statement install P3Dv1.4 and try to Change the FSUIPC as i say'd.

 

Crazy

Matthias

[mroschk]

...we post at the same Time...

 

What Default weather did you use? Prepar3D , all Versions, have no Default weather engine ;-)

 

It happens NOT without injecting any weather !!!

 

Pls install Active Sky 2012 or another Weather makes no difference, and then it will happen.

 

You must have the same conditions then here.

You are comparing Apples and Pears ;-)

 

 

Matthias

[Pete Dowson]

thats it...@Pete: You have not installed P3Dv1.4, but say to me that i am wrong.

I can also speek from the SAT, to come away from the TAT, because you always say this is calculated.

The SAT in EDDK yesterday has to be -2°, but was +18.

 

But that is not the Point. The Point is 1. i speak from the combination of P3Dv1.4 and FSUIPCv4.923.

I wrote you the conditions before.

 

WHY THE HELL SHOULD ANY OTHER PROGRAMM BE THE PROBLEM IF I CHANGE ONLY THE FSUIPC from 4.92 to 4.923 ???

 

That has NOTHING to do with another programs.

Why can you not understand this.

 

Please....before you again give a Statement install P3Dv1.4 and try to Change the FSUIPC as i say'd.

 

Crazy

Matthias

 

It was not installed on the PC I can currently access. My main Pc went away for repair and has only just returned, 5 minutes ago. I will be spending most of the rest of today getting that set back up.

 

For you I was up until 02:30 last night and on to it again at 09:30 this morning. I have reluctantly installed 1.4 on this PC and tested it and proved that it is okay inall the respects I can actually test.

 

You getting angry does not change the truth, nor does it help at all. I have already explained TWICE why some changes in some places can bring out faults in others, yet you refuse point blank to even acknowledge what I am saying. I really cannot support people with that sort of attitude. If you want to get to the bottom of things I suggest you moderate your behaviour and at least read my actual words and accede to the requests for information and files. I'm not going to ask again. If you continue is such a fashion you'll be on your own. I will then assume you will stay with 4.92 and ask for no more support in the future.

 

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

What Default weather did you use? Prepar3D , all Versions, have no Default weather engine ;-)

 

I use Weather Themes, which are simply pre-defined weather settings similar to any you can inject from an outside program. Once the weather data is actuvated inside the Sim its source it totally irrelevant.

 

It happens NOT without injecting any weather !!!

 

If only injecting weather into P3D makes the values returned by SimConnect go wrong, then it simply MUST be either bad weather data injected, or a bug in P3D. Don't you see that?

 

You must have the same conditions then here.

 

This is why I asked, twice now, for your saved FLT + WX files, and to see your FSUIPC settings, which requests you continually ignore.

 

You are comparing Apples and Pears ;-)

 

No, because weather once active in FS is the same no matter whence it came. The mechanism by which it got there isn't relevant -- UNLESS it was the actual mechanism which is at fault, as I keep pointing out.

 

Pete

[mroschk]

Hi Pete,

 

1. you have not tried to reproduce the conditions i explain

2. you always speek from P3D, not about the Special Versions i mean...that makes a big difference.

3. you say now to me you can not reproduce this because your main PC was broken

 

So..how can you say that my notices are wrong and not thinking that maybe the FSUIPCv4.923 is the Problem ( even SAT OR TAT )

 

I will search anywhere for peoples with the same results.

Hopefully you are then more open to check also the FSUIPC.

 

Matthias

[Pete Dowson]

Hopefully you are then more open to check also the FSUIPC.

 

Okay. That's it. I've had enough of this. I spent hours last night and more time this morning and you say something ignorant like that!?

 

You are apparently deliberately ignoring what I say, and still refuse to provide any useful information. I am not answering any more of your totally useless contributions until you at least do as I asked. I am wasting my time with you and I have far too much to do already without this nonsense.

 

Pete

[mroschk]

It is the same for me.

 

You ignore what i wrote, speak always from any P3D, you use a Default weather in P3Dv1.4 which is not present and have not tried AS2012 weather injection,

have not changed FSUIPC4.92 to v4.923.

 

What else should i say.

 

Searching for anyone with the same Problem and locking very Forward to your Response then :-)

 

Matthias

[hsors]

 

 

962589 Monitor IPC:0E8C (S16) = -14435

   962589 SimRead: 0E8C="AMBIENT TEMPERATURE" [also 34A8]

            FLT64: -56.3924792267

   962620 Monitor IPC:11D0 (S16) = -9662

   962620 SimRead: 11D0="TOTAL AIR TEMPERATURE"

            FLT64: -37.7458117115

 

Seems ok to me at first glance. Did you check the TAT you've read matched the formula? (TAT=SAT*(1+0.2*Mach*Mach)) [sAT and TAT both in °K in this formula]; you'll have to add mach number to the records (&H35A0). This would be a definitive confirmation.

Personally I use &H34A8 for SAT but it should be the same as E8C after rescaling

I think this is also valid in slew mode but I'm not absolutely sure about that 

[Pete Dowson]

Seems ok to me at first glance. Did you check the TAT you've read matched the formula? (TAT=SAT*(1+0.2*Mach*Mach)) [sAT and TAT both in °K in this formula]; you'll have to add mach number to the records (&H35A0). This would be a definitive confirmation.

Personally I use &H34A8 for SAT but it should be the same as E8C after rescaling

I think this is also valid in slew mode but I'm not absolutely sure about that 

 

The last figures were in Flight Mode, and despite the OP's preposterous accusations, that was all with P3D1.4 and FSUIPC 4.923. I've also tried injecting weather from WeatherSet2. I am not about to purchase AS licenses for this PC. The weather themes have several temperature layers and cloud and wind layers and are as typical a weather setting as you could get from Active Sky, just fewer layers.

 

I'm going to have to ignore the OP from now on. He is still blinded by his own fury and not providing the simplest information I ask for, yet he expects me to drop everything and do exactly as he wants.

 

Thanks as always, Herve.

 

Pete

[dirk broekhoven]

Hi Pete,

 

I'm having a simmular problem with temperature with my PMDG NGX 737 in prepar3D v2 and latest version of  fsuipc. The OAT in the FMC shows vallues of 60-80°C. After clearing "all weather" the problem seems to be gone. This is also the reason I think it's fsuipc related.

 

If you need any other informatio...

     please let me know.

 

Greets,

 

Dirk

[mroschk]

Hello,

 

there Pete ar right. That Problem is known by LM and you have to contact them for a solution.

 

My Problem is related to FSUIPC v4.92 and Prepar3D v1.4

 

Matthias

[Pete Dowson]

My Problem is related to FSUIPC v4.92 and Prepar3D v1.4

 

Just to put an end to this, now I've got my flight PC back for repair, I've installed P3D 1.4 on it and used it with ActiveSky 2012 setting the weather, and in FSUIPC 4.923 monitoring both Ambient Temperature (offset 0E8C, type S16) and the TAT (offset 11D0, type S16), I see good and realistic values both on the ground and flying at altitude.

 

To be honest, I *know* there was nothing changed between 4.92 and 4.923 which could possibly have changed this, and in fact logically there is no real way for FSUIPC to make the TAT change -- as already stated, it is computed in the innards of code far away from FSUIPC (probably in SIM1.DLL).

 

I don't think Matthias has bothered to do any cross-checks like logging the values, and he certainly has not provided any of the information I requested, so I am closing this thread now as completed. I'm not willing to succomb to any more of his rants.

 

Pete