Hat Switch

[wkrp2005]

Pete or whomever,

 

I am considering installing a DigiKey 4-way hat switch to my Ace yoke via a Bodnar board.  My question is, does FSUIPC "interpolate" between Up, Down, Left, Right to provide 8-way POV functionality?  Reason I ask is that my Saitek joystick when using JOY.CPL in Win7 shows all 8-ways, but the Hat Switch/Bodnar board only show the 4 ways.

 

Thanks in advance.

Keith

[Pete Dowson]

I am considering installing a DigiKey 4-way hat switch to my Ace yoke via a Bodnar board.  My question is, does FSUIPC "interpolate" between Up, Down, Left, Right to provide 8-way POV functionality?  Reason I ask is that my Saitek joystick when using JOY.CPL in Win7 shows all 8-ways, but the Hat Switch/Bodnar board only show the 4 ways.

 

A proper hat, recognised by Windows as a POV ("Point of View") device, and not just a collection of buttons, returns to FS and FSUIPC a value in either degrees (0-359) or 1/10ths of degrees (0-3599). Whether it can only supply discrete values like 0, 90, 180, 270, or many different values depends entirely on how it is made. I think the normal cheap ones consist of 4 buttons, but usually with the firmware in the device it is connected to able to detect two adjacent ones pressed together and so give you the intermediate, 45 degree, positions -- i.e. 8-way. 

 

FSUIPC4 can see POVs as axes, in the axis assignments tab, in which case it takes the number provided, 0-360, as an axis value. It can also see them as a set of up to 8 buttons, 32-29, (this method derives from how FS98 and earlier saw them). In that case it merely treats values 337.5 - 22.5 as 0 == button 32, 22.6 - 67.5 as 45 = button 33 ... and so on.

 

There is of course no way FSUIPC can detect values which aren't supplied by the hardware. It can't "interpolate" given only one value, obviously. If the Bodnar implementation doesn't do the 2-button detection in order to send the intermediate values, then I'm afraid your hat will remain 4-way, not 8.

 

Pete

[wkrp2005]

Thanks Pete for such a detailed answer. 

 

So, to understand correctly, even though the Bodnar BUO836X has only 4 inputs for a POV switch, the DigiKey will only provide 4-way?  Seems I heard from either DigiKey or Bodnar (can't recall) that it supports 8-way, but still the JOY.CPL only displays the 4-way..

 

Thanks again

Keith

[Pete Dowson]

So, to understand correctly, even though the Bodnar BUO836X has only 4 inputs for a POV switch, the DigiKey will only provide 4-way

 

Sorry, I don't understaand the "only 4 inputs" part. Would 8 inputs give 8 way, 16 16 way and so on? Would less give more? I don't understand your point there. 

 

?  Seems I heard from either DigiKey or Bodnar (can't recall) that it supports 8-way, but still the JOY.CPL only displays the 4-way..

 

 

I have no idea. I have never built a hat nor connected one to any board. All I can explain is what FSUIPC or FS will see and how it can treat what it sees, and that is what I have done. For hardware support I can only suggest you visit the appropriate maker's support forum. You will probably find both Bodnar and Digikey users over in http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/ too, so worth visiting there, perhaps?

 

Pete

[wkrp2005]

Will do thanks Pete.

 

The Bodnar board has 4 specific inputs for a POV switch, Up, Down, Left, Right.

 

I will inquire with those folks.  Thanks again

 

Keith

[Pete Dowson]

The Bodnar board has 4 specific inputs for a POV switch, Up, Down, Left, Right.

 

What does it do if two are pressed together? That's all a normal 8-way hat works -- the firmware in the device converts that to  the intermediate positions.

 

Pete

[wkrp2005]

It goes to one of the 4 cardinal positions.  As far as I can tell there is no firmware.  One merely connects the wires of the four micro switches to a controller board.  Thats where I thought the Bodnar board would take over.  I've asked the Bodnar folks the same questions.  Will report back when able.  Thanks again Pete.

 

Keith

[Pete Dowson]

It goes to one of the 4 cardinal positions.  As far as I can tell there is no firmware.

 

Well something must be providing the values 0, 90, 180 and 270 for the USB joystick "POV" type input. A normal pushbutton indication would just be a bit in a 32 bit word. You might not think of it as firmware, but it is a program in a chip, and that's what I call "firmware".

 

Pete

[Mickey_Techy]

....................The Bodnar board has 4 specific inputs for a POV switch, Up, Down, Left, Right.................

 and a dedicated Ground, as also a +5V connection.

 

Between them, these provide 8-way POV functionality. Leo's firmware is necessary only to flash the boards to use Rotary Encoders. No other program is necessary to program the POV joystick. I'm using three of these boards in my pit. No issues at all.

 

Haven't used a Digikey, so can't comment on that. 

 

Mickey

[wkrp2005]

Thanks for the input Mickey.  I am connecting the ground and four inputs in the POV section of the Bodnar board.  I presume the hat switches don't require a separate 5v supply since none of my other push-to-make switches require external power.  I think I have the "up, down, left, right" inputs not synched up with the hat switch "up, down, etc" so possibly when I try to move to the diagonal it doesn't know how to interpret the signals.  I have two requests into the Bodnar folks but yet to hear anything...  So, to confirm, I DO need to flash the board with the Leo's rotary encoder software?

 

Thanks

Keith

[wkrp2005]

Turns out my hat switch is only 4-way capable (even though the manufacturer claimed the contrary).  Sorry to yank your chain Pete nnnecessarily.  If anyone knows of 8-way capable hat switches on the market please shoot me a link. 

[Pete Dowson]

Turns out my hat switch is only 4-way capable (even though the manufacturer claimed the contrary).  Sorry to yank your chain Pete nnnecessarily.  If anyone knows of 8-way capable hat switches on the market please shoot me a link. 

 

Leo Bodnar has one in his catalogue. See http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=210. However, it says 'sold out' at present. Maybe he can point you to other sources?

 

I've thought of one source. Buy a cheap joystick with a hat and take it out. It might actually work out cheaper than buying the switch separately!

 

Pete

[wkrp2005]

Thanks Pete.  Leo's is too big (attached PCB) for my yoke handle.  And yes, I'm looking at pulling out a hat from a 10 dollar used joystick.  Thanks again for all your help.

 

Keith

[mugc]

Keith -

 

My apologies for digging up an old thread - but I was looking to do the same as you - and wondering if you ever did find an 8 way capable HAT. I was thinking of buying Leo's board - his HAT still shows as sold out - and I then looked at the digikey 4 way - quite glad I came across this thread as I probably would have picked it up and ran into the same issue you did.

 

Did you find an alternative HAT?

 

- Jim

[wkrp2005]

Hi Jim,

 

Sorry for the delay.  Just checked this site out of the blue...

 

Anyway, yes.  I contacted Richard at KimodoSimulations and he was able to fabricate (3D print) me an 8-way HAT, prewired for ~18 GBP.  He also customized a backplate to mount (glue) to the yoke handle.  I had to modify it slightly since it was a bit too deep but I have it mounted and it checked out fine with the Bodnar BU0386X board.  I haven't really used it yet since I am still working on my panels so as to get rid of the desk aspect of my pit.

 

It took a while (6-8 weeks) to finally get the switch mainly because he was/is busy and there were some family related priorities, but he was great t work with.  Highly recommend this route.  See attached pic

 

Good luck

Keith

 

 

[mugc]

Thanks for the reply! The switch looks great - and at a reasonable price. Looks like they produce some interesting heli controls.

 

- Jim