Rudder doesn't work until aircraft is moving

[wreck1463]

I am running Prepar3d 2.5 on windows 10 with FSUIPC 4.942

For all aircraft, the rudder (and rudder pedals) will not move until the aircraft is moving.  The faster I go, the farther the rudder will deflect.  I removed FSUIPC and tried with just the prepar3d controllers turned on, and the rudder functions normally.  This is preventing me from being able to steer on the ground with the rudder pedals.

As a side note, aircraft with a steering tiller function normally on the ground.  All other control surfaces behave normally regardless of speed.

Thanks,

Mark Hager

[Pete Dowson]

I am running Prepar3d 2.5 on windows 10 with FSUIPC 4.942

For all aircraft, the rudder (and rudder pedals) will not move until the aircraft is moving.  The faster I go, the farther the rudder will deflect.  I removed FSUIPC and tried with just the prepar3d controllers turned on, and the rudder functions normally.  This is preventing me from being able to steer on the ground with the rudder pedals.

As a side note, aircraft with a steering tiller function normally on the ground.  All other control surfaces behave normally regardless of speed.

 

You've not read the FSUIPC documentation?

 

If you assign both rudder and steering tiller in FSUIPC, they are managed whilst the aircraft is on the ground.  The steering till is 100% active at 0 knots, and winds down to 0% at (by default) 60 knots -- that value is a settable parameter. The rudder effectiveness is the reverse -- 0 at 0 knots, 100% at 60 knots.  For taxi you use the tiller, on a takeoff roll you use tiller and rudder with rudder being dominant after 30 knots (or half the set value).

 

This is a long-standing feature of FSUIPC, for added realism, and is well appreciated.

 

Both controls, assigned "direct to calibration" in FSUIPC, actually use the rudder, not the new steering control added in FSX (though that is also assignable in FSUIPC, just not calibratable).

 

If you do not want this action you should not assign the FSUIPC steering tiller -- assign to the FS control instead. You can of course use Profiles to have different assignments for different aircraft types.

 

Pete

[wreck1463]

I've been using the tiller for quite some time, and never noticed that it prevented the rudder surface from moving at 0 kts. Learn something new every day.

I'm still having the problem though, that ALL aircraft in ALL profiles follow the 0 rudder effectiveness at low speeds regardless of the presence of steering tiller in their profile.

I removed all tiller and steering entries from the FSUIPC4.ini, and restarted prepar3d. Rudder functions as prepar3d originally meant.  I then loaded an airliner, and assigned the tiller to that profile. After this all the profiles behaved as described above.  Is this the way it is intended to work? Should I only use the FSX steering tiller axis on those aircraft that I want the tiller for?

BTW, I agree that the way you've made the rudder work is "well appreciated". :)

[Pete Dowson]

I'm still having the problem though, that ALL aircraft in ALL profiles follow the 0 rudder effectiveness at low speeds regardless of the presence of steering tiller in their profile.

 

Hmm. That shouldn't be so, but maybe there's a bug. Possibly I've never had such a mixed case -- even aircraft without steerable nose wheels are steerable with the FSUIPC-assigned tiller because it uses the rudder control in any case.  Perhaps it's an original bug and no one ever found it because of this.

 

I'll test here and get back to you.

 

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I've tested here and I cannot find anything wrong. How are you testing? Instead of looking at the actual rudder from outside the aircraft, just enable axis logging in the FSUIPC Logging tab. Also enable the Console Log and put FS into Windowed mode, temporarily, so you can see what goes on in real time.

 

As you move the controls, if FSUIPC is allowing them through you will see the values being logged. On aircraft without the tiller assigned or calibrated you should see that it does nothing, and the rudder ALWAYS sends the full range of axis values. On the aircraft with both tiller and rudder assigned, when you are parked on the ground you will see that the tiller sends the rudder controls, full range of values, whilst the rudder control  does nothing.

 

If you are not seeing exactly this I think there's something wrong with the assignments. In that case please paste your FSUIPC4 INI file here.

 

Pete

[stuarth]

Pete,

I have similar question relating to Rudder operation with the Majestic Q400.

All axes are assigned and configured in fsuipc. The MJQ400 tiller is set in their config programme, not fsuipc, to "Aileron+Mouse", but like the poster here there is no movement of the Rudder when parked at the ramp. Also the Elevators seem to be temperamental sometimes moving sometimes not, sometimes on one side moving.

Is this lack of Rudder movement to be expected when the aircraft has a filler?

Stuart

[Pete Dowson]

I have similar question relating to Rudder operation with the Majestic Q400.

All axes are assigned and configured in fsuipc. The MJQ400 tiller is set in their config programme, not fsuipc, to "Aileron+Mouse", but like the poster here there is no movement of the Rudder when parked at the ramp. Also the Elevators seem to be temperamental sometimes moving sometimes not, sometimes on one side moving.

Is this lack of Rudder movement to be expected when the aircraft has a filler?

 

The tiller should have nothing to do with anything else but the nose wheel. FSUIPC's own tiller implementation is different in that it uses the rudder -- there was no choice before FSX, and the facility precedes FSX by a long way.

 

I think you need to ask on the MJQ400 support forum.

 

Pete

[wreck1463]

Ok, I'm back at home and retesting this.  I've enabled logging, renamed my old FSUIPC4.ini, and restarted Prepar3d. Controls were  turned off in Prepar3d, and nothing assigned by FSUIPC yet. I assigned axes for aileron, elevator, rudder, left and right brakes, and throttles 1 and 2. I then calibrated them all.  This was done using the default flight, and the default F22.  All controls moved and logged as you said they should. I then switched into the Maule.  I assigned the tiller axis with the profile specific box checked, and named the profile "maule".  I calibrated the tiller axis, and all functions worked and logged as you described that they should.  I switched back to the F22.  The tiller had no effect on the controls, and did not log rudder movement. The rudder itself, however, didn't either with 0 speed.  I sped up, and the rudder slowly regained effectiveness (and logged that way accordingly) as it would if the tiller were assigned to it's profile. I should note here that the F22 has not been assigned a profile (perhaps this is where I run into trouble?)  I then reset the axis for the tiller so that it was no longer calibrated by FSUIPC.  The F22 then began to behave correctly (meaning the rudders move and log at 0 speed with the rudder pedals).  This of course broke the functioning of the tiller for the Maule after switching back to it.

Here is a paste of my INI file after recalibrating the tiller axis (which made the F22 behave incorrectly again). Thanks for your time.

 

[General]
UpdatedByVersion=4942
History=JKOJ9MH48P2AIB1JWC5QF
InitDelayDevicesToo=No
NewInterceptTextMenu=No
UseSystemTime=No
UseMidMouseBtn=Yes
MouseWheelMove=No
MouseWheelTrim=No
MouseWheelTrimSpeed=1
JoystickTimeout=20
PollGFTQ6=Yes
BlankDisplays=No
FixControlAccel=No
FixMachSpeedBug=No
DeleteVehiclesForAES=Yes
AutoScanDevices=Yes
VisibilityOptions=No
OneCloudLayer=No
CloudTurbulence=No
CloudIcing=No
GenerateCirrus=No
SuppressCloudTurbulence=No
MaxIce=-4
MinIce=-1
UpperWindGusts=No
SuppressWindTurbulence=No
SuppressWindVariance=No
WindTurbulence=No
TurbulenceRate=1.0,5.0
TurbulenceDivisor=20,20,40,40
SuppressAllGusts=No
MaxSurfaceWind=0
WindLimitLevel=200
WindDiscardLevel=400
WindAjustAltitude=No
WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000
SmoothBySimTime=No
WindSmoothing=No
WindSmoothness=2
WindSmoothAirborneOnly=Yes
PressureSmoothness=0
TemperatureSmoothness=0
DisconnTrimForAP=No
ZeroElevForAPAlt=No
ThrottleSyncAll=No
WhiteMessages=No
ShowPMcontrols=No
SpoilerIncrement=512
MagicBattery=No
RudderSpikeRemoval=No
ElevatorSpikeRemoval=No
AileronSpikeRemoval=No
ReversedElevatorTrim=No
ClockSync=No
ClockSyncMins=5
ClearWeatherDynamics=No
OwnWeatherChanges=No
TimeForSelect=4
LoadFlightMenu=No
LoadPlanMenu=No
PauseAfterCrash=No
BrakeReleaseThreshold=75
SaveDataWithFlights=No
ZapSound=firework
ShortAircraftNameOk=Substring
UseProfiles=Yes
EnableMouseLook=No
DelayedMouseLookZoom=No
AxesWrongRange=No
TCASid=Flight
TCASrange=40
AxisCalibration=No
DirectAxesToCalibs=No
ShowMultilineWindow=Yes
SuppressSingleline=No
SuppressMultilineFS=No
AxisIntercepts=No
DontResetAxes=No
InitDelay=0
GetNearestAirports=No
OOMcheck=Yes
OOMcheckInterval=10
WeatherReadFactor=2
WeatherRewriteSeconds=1
CustomWeatherModify=No
SimConnectStallTime=1
InitialStallTime=10
NormalStallTime=1
LuaRerunDelay=66
FSVersionUsed="Lockheed Martin® Prepar3D® v2",2.5.12946.0
SimConnectUsed=2.5.0.0
LogAxes=Yes
[JoyNames]
AutoAssignLetters=No
0=Logitech Driving Force Pro USB
0.GUID={3FBAEFC0-F9C7-11E2-8004-444553540000}
1=CH THROTTLE QUADRANT
1.GUID={65228670-2EA1-11E2-8004-444553540000}
2=CH FLIGHT SIM YOKE USB
2.GUID={65228670-2EA1-11E2-8005-444553540000}
3=Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder Pedals
3.GUID={67972F60-1B5C-11E4-8001-444553540000}
4=SideWinder Force Feedback 2 Joystick
4.GUID={19D6ABC0-2273-11E4-8001-444553540000}
5=Cyborg F.L.Y.5 Flight Stick
5.GUID={4443EBA0-F909-11E2-8001-444553540000}
6=DTA Rotary Encoder
6.GUID={197D74C0-AFF8-11E4-8001-444553540000}
[Axes]
PollInterval=10
RangeRepeatRate=10
0=1X,256,D,9,0,0,0
1=1Y,256,D,10,0,0,0
2=2X,256,D,1,0,0,0
3=2Y,256,D,2,0,0,0
4=3X,256,D,7,0,0,0
5=3Y,256,D,8,0,0,0
6=3R,256,D,3,0,0,0
[buttons]
PollInterval=25
ButtonRepeat=20,10
[LuaFiles]
1=ipcReady
2=linda
[AutoSave]
Next=1
Interval=60
Files=10
SaveOnGround=No
AutoSaveEnabled=No
[GPSout]
GPSoutEnabled=No
[GPSout2]
GPSoutEnabled=No
[WideServer]
WideFSenabled=Yes
[sounds]
Path=C:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\Sound\
Device1=Primary Sound Driver
Device2=Speakers (SoundMAX Integrated Digital HD Audio)
Device3=SPDIF Interface (SoundMAX Integrated Digital HD Audio)
Device4=Digital Output (SoundMAX Integrated Digital HD Audio)
[Window.LUA display]
Docked=7347, 2836, 3541, 728
[JoystickCalibration]
AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes
ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes
ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes
ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes
SepRevsJetsOnly=No
ApplyHeloTrim=No
UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No
FlapsSetControl=0
FlapDetents=No
ReverserControl=66292
Reverser1Control=66422
Reverser2Control=66425
Reverser3Control=66428
Reverser4Control=66431
MaxThrottleForReverser=256
AileronTrimControl=66731
RudderTrimControl=66732
CowlFlaps1Control=66162
CowlFlaps2Control=66163
CowlFlaps3Control=66164
CowlFlaps4Control=66165
SteeringTillerControl=0
MaxSteerSpeed=60
Aileron=-16248,-512,512,16252
Elevator=-16245,-512,512,16256
Rudder=-16351,-512,512,16351
LeftBrake=520,16380/16
RightBrake=664,16380/16
Throttle1=-16380,-512,512,16380/32
Throttle2=-16380,-512,512,16380/32
SteeringTiller=-16380,-512,512,16380
[Profile.maule]
1=Maule M7 260C
[Axes.maule]
RangeRepeatRate=10
0=1X,256,D,9,0,0,0
1=1Y,256,D,10,0,0,0
2=2X,256,D,1,0,0,0
3=2Y,256,D,2,0,0,0
4=3X,256,D,7,0,0,0
5=3Y,256,D,8,0,0,0
6=3R,256,D,3,0,0,0
7=4S,256,D,36,0,0,0
​

[Pete Dowson]

You are calibrating the steering tiller for all aircraft (as seen in the [JoystickCalibration] section. You are quite correctly only assigning the axes you want in the different profiles, but you are calibrating all of them generically. It is the calibration which determines the actions, not the assignments.

 

Usually folks want separate calibrations for different aircraft types (as they all behave differently), but if you are happy with them all responding identically, just separate out the Steering Tiller (ie first RESET its calibration), and then re-calibrate it specifically for only those aircraft profiles needing it.

 

Pete

.

[wreck1463]

Sorry for digging up a post this old, but I've been away from simming for a while. Your last reply did in fact fix my problem. Thanks very much for your help, and thanks for FSUIPC!

-Mark