[Question]Throttle quadrant calibrations

[nemokin]

Hi,

First time posting here.

I am experiencing a slight problem properly calibrating my throttle quadrant using FSUIPC.

I have been using FSUIPC for several years now and I generally understand (or so I think)

on how to calibrate various functions but I am having problem with my PMDG NGX throttles.

Since my throttle quadrant has reversers just like the 737's, I have checked "no reverse zone"

and moved my throttles 1 and 2 in the Max and Min positions. One has a large negative number, like

-16323 and the other an exact same number but a positive one. If I set them accordingly

in the calibration window, what I get in NGX is a sudden throttle movement from retarded

position to nearly a max throttle position without any gradual increase despite my hardware

throttle being gradually moved. To alleviate this issue, I have set the minimum position in FSUIPC

to be not the min point but a slightly forwarded point, only a centimeter or so away from the retard position. With this, the calibration window no longer shows

-16323 but a small positive number like 56 or similar. Max point remains unchanged,

something like 16323. If I do this, then now the throttle in NGX does respond to gradual

throttle movement but I have a different problem. Things are mostly fine except after I taxi in to

runway getting ready to takeoff and I slowly begin to increase power, one of the two

engines will go into reverse while the other doesn't. This is always with my right engine.

For default BE58 which doesn't have reverse, my engines spool up on takeoff

properly without any problems.

(Hardware actions is the same for both engines, I have not pulled up on my physical

reversers.).

So, I basically have two unknowns from my above situation.

1. My current calibration puts one of the engines to go into reverse despite my having

chosen "no reverse zone". Is my way of selecting min point inappropriate?

(My other engine is behaving without problems)

2. My first method of selecting my min point at my hardware's retared position,

while I move my hardware throttles gradually, the response in

NGX is not gradual but abrupt min to max.

I'd appreciate your feedback on how I can properly calibrate my NGX.

Kay

[Pete Dowson]

 I am having problem with my PMDG NGX throttles.

 

As far as I am aware, you cannot calibrate throttles for the PMDG 737NGX in FSUIPC, because that model demands to see the throttle inputs at a higher priority level. In order to calibrate the throttles FSUIPC has to intercept the inputs at that level, manipulate them according to your settings, and send them back to FS at a lower level. This creates direct conflicts in the NGX because there are two competing values arriving.

 

To check calibration of your throttles in FSUIPC, select a default aircraft, or at least not a PMDG one.

 

Since my throttle quadrant has reversers just like the 737's, I have checked "no reverse zone"

and moved my throttles 1 and 2 in the Max and Min positions. One has a large negative number, like

-16323 and the other an exact same number but a positive one. If I set them accordingly

in the calibration window, what I get in NGX is a sudden throttle movement from retarded

position to nearly a max throttle position without any gradual increase despite my hardware

throttle being gradually moved.

 

The full range being RECEIVED from your throttle lever should certainly be in the region of -16384 to +16383. That would be for a well calibrated (in Windows) axis, or a modern digitally controlled axis with no Windows calibration.

 

The IN values shown on the calibration tab should increase gradually from the one to the other. All FSUIPC does is use the positions you SET as Minimum and Maximum to work out how to map that movemetn to the OUT values needed by FS, which are also -16384 to +16383, or 0 to 16383 for the No Reverse Zone option you've chosen.

 

So, big question: do the IN values change slowly as you move the axis slowly, or do they jump in the way you've said they do in the aircraft?

 

To alleviate this issue, I have set the minimum position in FSUIPC

to be not the min point but a slightly forwarded point, only a centimeter or so away from the retard position.

 

All that does is create a dead zone. It cannot change the behaviour of the input values.

 

Check that the IN values change smothly as you move the throttles. If so then your only problem is trying to calibrate in FSUIPC for an add-on aircraft for which this is a no-no. If the throttle lever gives input values which jump, maybe all the way or maybe at the half-way point, then this is a typical Saitek installation error which is corrected by a Registry edit -- for this see the FAQ subforum thread http://forum.simflight.com/topic/79464-some-saitek-axes-only-provide-partial-movement/.

 

Pete

[nemokin]

Pete,

Thank you for your response.

To answer your question.

Yes, the IN values I see are in the range you indicated, both negative and positive,

and they do change gradually as I move the thottles. When calibrating

for the default Baron, the IN numbers act the same way that they do gradually

change from he negative and positive. Throttles in my P3D with Baron behaves

properly without any problem.

No Reverse Option I have chosen for NGX, my IN numbers still show

-16323 and not 0 as you mentioned. I therefore move the throttles a tad forward

to find a positive number and SET that as min.

IN numbers do gradually move but not linearly - -16323 to 0 to positive number rather

with a small throttle movement but 0 to 16323 with nearly 90% of the remaining movement

to full throttle.

As long as I don't set the min IN value at the min of -16323 by finding value closer to

0, then the throttles will move gradually in NGX as it is supposed to.

Then the only problem is a sudden reverser activation when retarding the throttles,

only with the right engine, never the left. Left engine is working fine.

If I set the min IN value at the real min of -16323, then the throttle will jump in NGX.

My throttle quadrant is not Saitek, rather a B737-like quadrant. The manufacturer

no longer makes them but it is similar to Flight Deck Solutions TQ.

It is not motorized TQ so it acts simply as an input control device.

I have not ticked the "filter" , would that make any difference?

Also, does it make any difference to manually modify FSUIPC.ini file

to change the min value? ( I've read in some forum about someone

modifying the ini file.)

By the way, I have been using this TQ under FSX and NGX,

having calibrated with FSUIPC and have not had this unexpected

reverser activation when retarding my throttle.

Kay

[Pete Dowson]

Yes, the IN values I see are in the range you indicated, both negative and positive,

and they do change gradually as I move the thottles. When calibrating

for the default Baron, the IN numbers act the same way that they do gradually

change from he negative and positive. Throttles in my P3D with Baron behaves

properly without any problem.

No Reverse Option I have chosen for NGX, my IN numbers still show

-16323 and not 0 as you mentioned.

 

You misunderstand. No option in FSUIPC can possibly change the IN numbers -- those are what Windows' joystick drivers are providing. They are from the device or its software and are the values FSUIPC has to work with. The OUT numbers are the result of the calibration, not the IN!!!

 

If you are assigning in FSUIPC too, check the IN numbers on the Assignment tab. Unless you are using some add-on formula to manipulate those, they are exactly what is fed through to FS or FSUIPC calibration, depending how you assigned ("direct to FSUIPC calibration" does what it says, whilst the assignment to fS controls makes the values go to FS first, then they get intercepted by FSUIPC -- or PMDG, or both!

 

The NRZ option is supposed to set the minimum OUT value to 0 (idle when using FS's reverse-capable throttle controls). It cannot change what the device or its driver supplies, the IN value!

 

IN numbers do gradually move but not linearly - -16323 to 0 to positive number rather

with a small throttle movement but 0 to 16323 with nearly 90% of the remaining movement 

to full throttle.

 

In that case, since there is no way FSUIPC can influence the IN values, it is something else, outside of FSUIPC which is doing this. 

 

My throttle quadrant is not Saitek, rather a B737-like quadrant.

 

I only quoted the Saitek problem as originally what you described sounded like the same sort of Registration problem. But if your throttles are okay on other aircraft it plainly wasn't that in any case.

 

I have not ticked the "filter" , would that make any difference?

 

It would just make the response slower as it is averaging multiple successive IN values before working out the OUT value. It is for very jittery axes caused by dirt or bad power supplies.

 

Also, does it make any difference to manually modify FSUIPC.ini file

to change the min value? ( I've read in some forum about someone

modifying the ini file.)

 

Any change to the calibration values affect the calibration, of course. If you don't apply a slope, calibration is simply a way of mapping the actual inpout values to the desired (by FS) output values. This is a pure linear calculation when there's no slope applied, so the output will be just as smooth, or otherwise, as the input.

 

Your problem is with the input, according to your description. I don't understand, therefore, why there's no problem with other aircraft.

 

By the way, I have been using this TQ under FSX and NGX,

having calibrated with FSUIPC and have not had this unexpected 

reverser activation when retarding my throttle. 

 

So now I am really confused. What is different? What have you changed, and why?

 

According to all the other reports i have seen from PMDG NGX users, calibration of throttles (only -- doesn't affect other axes) is definitely not advised with that aircraft. There will be conflicts.

 

BTW I don't have or use the PMDG 737 -- I have to use pure no-system no-cockpit aircraft models since I have a hardware cockpit running Prosim737. That provides the systems.

 

Pete

[nemokin]

You misunderstand. No option in FSUIPC can possibly change the IN numbers -- those are what Windows' joystick drivers are providing. They are from the device or its software and are the values FSUIPC has to work with. The OUT numbers are the result of the calibration, not the IN!!!

 

Pete

 

If you are assigning in FSUIPC too, check the IN numbers on the Assignment tab. Unless you are using some add-on formula to manipulate those, they are exactly what is fed through to FS or FSUIPC calibration, depending how you assigned ("direct to FSUIPC calibration" does what it says, whilst the assignment to fS controls makes the values go to FS first, then they get intercepted by FSUIPC -- or PMDG, or both!

 

The NRZ option is supposed to set the minimum OUT value to 0 (idle when using FS's reverse-capable throttle controls). It cannot change what the device or its driver supplies, the IN value!

 

 

In that case, since there is no way FSUIPC can influence the IN values, it is something else, outside of FSUIPC which is doing this. 

 

 

I only quoted the Saitek problem as originally what you described sounded like the same sort of Registration problem. But if your throttles are okay on other aircraft it plainly wasn't that in any case.

 

 

It would just make the response slower as it is averaging multiple successive IN values before working out the OUT value. It is for very jittery axes caused by dirt or bad power supplies.

 

 

Any change to the calibration values affect the calibration, of course. If you don't apply a slope, calibration is simply a way of mapping the actual inpout values to the desired (by FS) output values. This is a pure linear calculation when there's no slope applied, so the output will be just as smooth, or otherwise, as the input.

 

Your problem is with the input, according to your description. I don't understand, therefore, why there's no problem with other aircraft.

 

 

So now I am really confused. What is different? What have you changed, and why?

 

According to all the other reports i have seen from PMDG NGX users, calibration of throttles (only -- doesn't affect other axes) is definitely not advised with that aircraft. There will be conflicts.

 

BTW I don't have or use the PMDG 737 -- I have to use pure no-system no-cockpit aircraft models since I have a hardware cockpit running Prosim737. That provides the systems.

 

Pete

Pete,

 

Thank you for your feedback.

Apologies for being inaccurate regarding "IN" and "OUT".

After taking a look at the calibration page, numbers in the "IN" box has negative value when my throttles are pulled back

but the "OUT" box has 0 in it, as you said if I have "no reverse zone" ticked.

I am not using any addon formula, so the number in the "IN" box is what the TQ feeds.

What I attempted today was to tick "filter" for both throttles 1 and 2. (I didn't have them ticked).

I only made two flights since so not statistically saying anything, but at least in these two flights

I did not see the unexpected reverse activation in throttle 2. I shall make a few more flights to

see if this "filter" can be my permanent solution.

Kay