Problem Setting Up Hardware

[Dougal]

Been off flight sim for some time and now finished reinstalling all my flightsims; P3Dv4, X-Plane 11 and DCSWorld etc.

Having major issue trying calibrate or use my two Saitek throttle controls, using FSUIPC5 in P3Dv4. If they weren't almost new, I'd say the pots are dirty.  That's just how they're behaving within FSUIPC.

They calibrate and operate smoothly and perfectly in Windows10, using 'joy.cpl'.  There's also no issue using them directly in P3D, or the other flightsim programs, but once I disable the axis within P3D and attempt to calibrate with FSUIPC, they jump around and become unstable:-(

I normally setup numerous profiles in FSUIPC, which is why I use it.

It's also a new Windows 10 (x64) installation.

No Saitek drivers are installed.

This is a new one to me, so if anyone have any idea what might be going on, I'd be most grateful.

log attached

FSUIPC5.log

[Pete Dowson]

3 hours ago, Dougal said:

They calibrate and operate smoothly and perfectly in Windows10, using 'joy.cpl'.  There's also no issue using them directly in P3D, or the other flightsim programs, but once I disable the axis within P3D and attempt to calibrate with FSUIPC, they jump around and become unstable:-(

That sounds exactly like dual assignments. Don't "disable the axis" in P3D: disable controllers in P3D altogether.

What is "joy.cpl"?

Pete

 

 

[Dougal]

Hi Pete

Yeah it does doesn't it.  If disable them completely, I have to set up a way of using the HAT switch I don't like.  All my previous installations I've done this way but I guess the latest P3D doesn't like it.  Still, I'll go that route and see what happens......

joy.cpl is the app in the windows10 system for calibrating controllers.

I hear Stoke got it pretty bad with the winds last week.  Is all well?

PS  Thanks for replying on sundays;-)

[Pete Dowson]

36 minutes ago, Dougal said:

If disable them completely, I have to set up a way of using the HAT switch I don't like.

For view panning? You can assign that n FSUIPC too.

37 minutes ago, Dougal said:

I hear Stoke got it pretty bad with the winds last week.  Is all well?

Yes, thank you. We didn't really have any particularly bad winds at all. And we are actually uphill, in semi-moorland and very open. We usually get the worst winds because of this. A couple of our old roof tiles did get dislodged and broken, that's all.

Pete

 

[Dougal]

This is really strange.  I’m still having this issue and not able to use FSUIPC at all for assigning or calibrating the Saitek USB throttle axis.  No problems with joystick axis.  This all started after a Windows and P3D reinstallation.

I have two USB (3 axis) throttle quadrants.

All controllers are disabled within P3Dv4.

There are no conflicting commands within FSUIPC.

Three of the six axis will not operate smoothly. As you said before Pete, they ‘act’ just as if there are conflicting assignments, but there are not.

When assigning, calibrating and using the quadrants outside of FSUIPC, they’re fine, with no jumping around.

I’ll attach the log and ini files again just in case you can see something I can’t.

I’m pulling my hair out with this as I’ve never experienced anything like it before.

FSUIPC5.ini

FSUIPC5.log

[Pete Dowson]

16 hours ago, Dougal said:

Three of the six axis will not operate smoothly. As you said before Pete, they ‘act’ just as if there are conflicting assignments, but there are not.

I have one Saitek Quadrant and it works fine with Win10 and P3D4.  Are the three axes which are okay all one one of your Saiteks?

Is the arrangement with one saitek plugged through the other, so sharing the same USB port? If so, which of the Saitek's is the one suffering?

You only mention "calibration". Do the values jump around in the Axis assignments tab?

16 hours ago, Dougal said:

When assigning, calibrating and using the quadrants outside of FSUIPC, they’re fine, with no jumping around.

FSUIPC is doing nothing different from other programs, just using the standard DirectInput calls into Windows. I don't know any other way without trying to bypass the joystick interface and going direct to the USB level (which is already possible in FSUIPC via a Lua plug-in).

And it certainly is not doing different things for different axes.  Is, perhaps, which axes jump around dependent upon which control they are assigned to? Or is it the same three no matter to which they are assigned?

16 hours ago, Dougal said:

I’ll attach the log and ini files again just in case you can see something I can’t.

The logging has no axis logging exabled, so it isn't useful.  Park all axes in a "stable" position (usually one extreme or the other) to eliminate as many unwanted log entryies as possible, Just enable ais logging in the Logging tab, then operate each of the rogue axes in turn, slowly fromm one end to the other.

That will log the calibrated values only, not the input values, so you could, before loading P3D, add these lines to the [General] section of the INI file to get such extra data:

Debug=Please
LogExtras=x1000

Pete

 

 

[Dougal]

I'm hoping this new log will tell you something;-)  I hadn't realised just how much I take FSUIPC for granted.  I'm really missing the profiles.

FSUIPC5.log

[Pete Dowson]

You didn't answer my other quesdtions, but from the Log I gather the problem Quadrant is that FSUIPC has as Joy #1, with Spolier, Throttel1 and Throttle2.

The Spoiler is not calibrated in FSUIPC at all, even though you have it assigned "direct to calibration"! I'm a little surprised it gets through at all, but i think that might be a difference between the 32- and 64-bit implementations.

These lines show the first Spoiler reading:

Read joy 1, Buttons=x00000000, POV=-1
   301547     Axes: X=30703,Y=65535,Z=65535,R=0,U=0,V=0
   301547           S=0,T=0,P=-1,Q=-1,M=-1,N=-1
   301547 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= -494 (0xfffffe12) AXIS_SPOILER_SET

showing that an inpuy of 30703 (supplied by DirectInput) gives an output to P3D of -494.  So it appears to be reversed?

The first discrepancy is here:

   301782 Read joy 1, Buttons=x00000000, POV=-1
   301782     Axes: X=25543,Y=65535,Z=65535,R=0,U=0,V=0
   301782           S=0,T=0,P=-1,Q=-1,M=-1,N=-1
   301782 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= -2827 (0xfffff4f5) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
   301782 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= 3612 (0x00000e1c) AXIS_SPOILER_SET

Now, that second Spoiler control is most defitinely NOT from FSUIPC.

So, either you have not turned off Controllers at all in P3D (and I don't mean just unassigning things, that isn't good enough), OR you have some other software or addon running with is doing its own thing with these inputs.

The rest of the spoiler axis test is good, smooth, until whever else is doing things suddenly "catches up" with this burst, a few seconds after FSUIPC's controls are sent:

   305625 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= 7530 (0x00001d6a) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
   305657 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= 12382 (0x0000305e) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
   305719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= 14613 (0x00003915) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
   305797 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= 15640 (0x00003d18) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
   305860 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= 16111 (0x00003eef) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
   305922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= 16328 (0x00003fc8) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
   305985 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= 16384 (0x00004000) AXIS_SPOILER_SET

where the final value, 16384, coincides with an un-reversed X input of 65535 just before.

I looked at the Throttle 1 test (axis Y on Joy#1) and that looks fine, no discrepancied, but then, after what looks like a spasm or jitter on all three axes on the OTHER quadrant, you went on to test Throttle3, which is on the other quadrant! The first oddity on that is very different:

   314469 Read joy 0, Buttons=x00000000, POV=-1
   314469     Axes: X=32768,Y=65535,Z=65535,R=0,U=0,V=0
   314469           S=0,T=0,P=-1,Q=-1,M=-1,N=-1
   314500 Read joy 0, Buttons=x00000000, POV=-1
   314500     Axes: X=0,Y=65535,Z=65535,R=0,U=0,V=0
   314500           S=0,T=0,P=-1,Q=-1,M=-1,N=-1
   314516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65822 (0x0001011e), Param= 16384 (0x00004000) THROTTLE3_SET
   315672 Read joy 0, Buttons=x00000000, POV=-1
   315672     Axes: X=32768,Y=65535,Z=65535,R=0,U=0,V=0
   315672           S=0,T=0,P=-1,Q=-1,M=-1,N=-1
   315688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65822 (0x0001011e), Param= 8192 (0x00002000) THROTTLE3_SET

Suddenly that axis (X) defitely returned a zero (0, as you see. FSUIPC is not able to do that. The log line is showing the complete return exactly supplied by the USB device, for all axes and buttons and POVs. This example does suggest either a device fault, or USB, or a connection problem.

Anyway, as well as this, I think you still need to answer those questions i posted before and which you seem to have skipped, i.e.

6 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Are the three axes which are okay all one one of your Saiteks?

Is the arrangement with one saitek plugged through the other, so sharing the same USB port? If so, which of the Saitek's is the one suffering?

You only mention "calibration". Do the values jump around in the Axis assignments tab?

and

6 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Is, perhaps, which axes jump around dependent upon which control they are assigned to? Or is it the same three no matter to which they are assigned?

You go on to say:

45 minutes ago, Dougal said:

I'm really missing the profiles.

which is odd because you have no profiles defined.

Why, if all things were good in FSX/P3D3, did you not simply use your existing INI (and any Profiles folder) in FSUIPC5? You only needed to rename the FSUIPC4.INI as FSUIPC5.INI.

Pete

 

[Dougal]

Hi Pete

Sorry about that.  I had the answers done and thought I'd done a 'copy & paste' but obviously forgot the 'ctrl-V' ;-)

The problem is spread evenly between the two quadrants. Not 3 axis as I first thought, but four; axis 1 & 2 on both units. They are both USB (not PS2) and independent of each other; each being plugged directly into a separate motherboard USB port. No hubs in use.

The issue is both in the calibration and axis assignment tabs.

Within FSUIPC, the same levers always act exactly the same way, behaving just like the pots themselves are damaged.  They definitely are not.  They’re almost new, and function perfectly outside of FSUIPC which doesn’t make sense does it.
 

Never thought to keep the old ini file:-(  and only keep backups of C (Windows) and D (Data), so no FS backup.  Need another HDD for this.

[Pete Dowson]

2 hours ago, Dougal said:

The issue is both in the calibration and axis assignment tabs.

Well, that was evident with the Throttle3 test, but not the Spoiler test, which showed no sign of any untoward values arriving into FSUIPC from the joystick interface in Windows.

I didn't continue looking for the third axis test, as two completely different symptoms, indicating different things, seemed to be enough.

I'm sorry, but on the evidence of the logging I can say the problem isn't from within FSUIPC. I don't know what else to say.

Pete

 

[Dougal]

I guess i probably knew that as i've never had an issue actually caused by FSUIPC itself. I must have something conflicting with it, but god only knows what:-(  I'll stick with X-Plane for now until I find the issue....

[Dougal]

Yea Ha!  I can now use FSUIPC to control all my aircraft once again!

Frustratingly, it ended up requiring a COMPLETE re installation of Windows and P3D to cure the problem.  I ‘THINK’ the problem was within the Windows USB control environment.

It really isn’t until one has to do without it, that you realise just how important FSUIPC is.

Ho Hum….  Now I just have reinstall all my addons……

[Pete Dowson]

13 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Yea Ha!  I can now use FSUIPC to control all my aircraft once again!

Frustratingly, it ended up requiring a COMPLETE re installation of Windows and P3D to cure the problem.  I ‘THINK’ the problem was within the Windows USB control environment.

It really isn’t until one has to do without it, that you realise just how important FSUIPC is.

Ho Hum….  Now I just have reinstall all my addons……

Glad you got it fixed, but it's a shame the cause couldn't be tracked down specifically and somehow fixed without a reinstall of everything.

Now don't forget to make a system backup! And another one you've added the addons.

Pete

 

[Dougal]

Found the fault Pete!

HARDWARE!!!  Most unusual.

There's something wrong with the main USB ports on the motherboard.  Thankfully, whatever the issue, its only affecting the main ports, and not the extra onboard ports.  I had to update the BIOS to accept a new i7 7700k chip, and now realise, that's when my problems all started.  Trouble is of course, I can't roll it back as then the chip isn't supported.  I've contacted Asus, but you know what they're like at implementing stuff on older boards (Z170).

Some things will work correctly on those USB ports, but not all.  Thats why it was hard to track down the issue.

[Pete Dowson]

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

Found the fault Pete!

HARDWARE!!!  Most unusual.

There's something wrong with the main USB ports on the motherboard.  Thankfully, whatever the issue, its only affecting the main ports, and not the extra onboard ports.

Wow! That is unusual! 

Thanks for the update.

Pete