control nose-wheel and rudder via FSUIPC

[lvedin]

Hello 🙂 !

I want to create realistic tiller/pedals regarding gear ratio for my P3D PMDG B737. Since nose-wheel and rudder are connected to pedals only, I assume the gear-rates are not realistic. So if possible I will unassign pedals in the P3D setup and control nose-wheel angle and rudder angle individual, from my SW.

QUESTION: It it possible to control an AC nose-wheel angle and rudder angle individual via FSUIPC control from my SW ?

Best regards Lennart Vedin

 

[Pete Dowson]

2 hours ago, lvedin said:

I want to create realistic tiller/pedals regarding gear ratio for my P3D PMDG B737.

Sorry, I don't understand the term "gear ratio" in this context!

2 hours ago, lvedin said:

Since nose-wheel and rudder are connected to pedals only,

Rudder is controlled by pedals, the nose wheel is a steering mechanism controlled by the tiller.

2 hours ago, lvedin said:

It it possible to control an AC nose-wheel angle and rudder angle individual via FSUIPC control from my SW ?

I don't know your SW, but FSUIPC supports separate Rudder and tiller assignment in its "direct to FSUIPC calibration" list. If you assign there you can calibrate the separately so that the tiller has a more immediate and dramatic effect. both actually use the rudder, but FSUIPC transitions from one to the other depending on ground speed. Because it uses rudder for both you won't see the nosewheel rurn.

P3D does offer a Steering control too, which should be separate from the rudder, but i think that although it turns the nosewheel it also moves the rudder.

From an FSUIPC application you can send controls via offset (3110 (check that please). FS controls are lin the List in your FSUIPC documents folder, FSUIPC ones towards the end of the Advanced Users guide.

Pete

 

[lvedin]

Thank's for reply Pete ! ( With gear-ratio I meant the steering-gear-box-ratio not landing-gear 🙂 )

Ok I did not know P3D has separated tiller.

However the remaining issue is how the pedals effect the nose-wheel in P3D. It definite have way too much effect in low speed (this is of cause to not make a tiller mandatory in sim). I want my pedals to effect the nose-wheel +/- 7 deg regardless of ground-speed, while the rudder shall remain realistic effect to the pedals.

So I may only have the 3BAC Rudder and 3BC4 Steering tiller to play with. Realistic pedals to nose-wheel effect may be achieved via 3BC4 Steering tiller and an applicable limitation.

But I'm afraid the 3BAC Rudder will affect also the nose-wheel in P3D right ?... and dramatic in low speed. 

Best Regards and thank,s. / Lennart Vedin

[Pete Dowson]

10 minutes ago, lvedin said:

With gear-ratio I meant the steering-gear-box-ratio

I realise you wern't talking about landing gear, but also I don't know of a steering "gear box". if you mean whatever it is which links the tiller to the nosewheel, then that relationship is merely in the way you calibrate.

12 minutes ago, lvedin said:

 I want my pedals to effect the nose-wheel +/- 7 deg

7 degees sounds like a rudder limitaion. It seems to small to tuen tight corners  -- most airliners can effect a 90 turn in not muchmore than their own lenth if tha.

14 minutes ago, lvedin said:

I'm afraid the 3BAC Rudder will affect also the nose-wheel in P3D right

More likely the other way around.

Really I don't know what you are confused about. Why not try the FSUIPC method, both calibrated as "direct" axes, and see if you like the results. Most folks do.

BTW even a 7% nose wheel deflection during take off rolls up to 150 knots ground speed is surely going to do some damage somewhere, so i really don't agree with your "regardless of ground speed".

Pete

 

[lvedin]

Hi Pete !

Ok it is not really a "gear-box" but well a transmission-rate as percent of tiller/pedal to wheel-steer-angle. In Boeing 737 it is +/- 7 deg nose-wheel with the pedals, and 78 deg with the tiller. Tight corners are not possible at all with pedals, but only with the tiller. Of cause the pilot does not apply full pedals in 150 knot if not any abnormal situation.

My considerations is that in real 737 the relationships is constant because it is mechanical steering. While in P3D/FSX the pedals relationship change with ground-speed, that's why you can make both tight corners and handle steering in 150 knots with the pedals. Yes it works in sim but it's not real realistic 🙂 .

Some other aircraft like Viggen has a manual gear-shift where the pilot can chose between two steering-gears, high-speed or taxi using only pedals.

Best regards Lennart Vedin

[Pete Dowson]

7 hours ago, lvedin said:

In Boeing 737 it is +/- 7 deg nose-wheel with the pedals, and 78 deg with the tiller.

Oh, yes, I know that. i thought you were saying keep the nosewheel turn from the tiller to 7%

7 hours ago, lvedin said:

While in P3D/FSX the pedals relationship change with ground-speed, that's why you can make both tight corners and handle steering in 150 knots with the pedals.

Sorry, how are they changing with ground speed in P3d? I do that with the tiller/pedal blending in FSUIPC, but I don't think the rudder actually turns the nose wheel.  At least that's what i'm told and why I then suggest trying the P3D steering axis instead. I never see my nose wheel so I have no idea if it turns at all for me.

You manage to create tight turns at 160 knots? Really? What are you assigning your pedals to?

I think you should experiment with the methods I've suggested. Anything else must be flight model related.

Pete

 

[lvedin]

"You manage to create tight turns at 160 knots? Really? What are you assigning your pedals to?" No, sorry if i'm not clear I mean the opposite, low speed give tight turns and high speed give small turn only, and this makes it possible in the sim to handle steering also i high speed.

It is confusing that the P3D interface is named "axis Rudder" when it is actually the Pedals they mean, there are four different quantities: Pedals and Tiller are inputs, Nose-wheel and Rudder are outputs. I think I understand the root of issue is in FSX/P3D that AC-modeling can only support interfacing the Pedals quantity, while the nose-wheel and rudder are fixed modeled in the P3D. The modeling is very poor all in all regarding ground-movement behavior.

I did also try the tiller input named "axis Steering set" in P3D, it behavior exactly like the pedals, just a parallel input. 

So thank you for your time :)

[Pete Dowson]

8 hours ago, lvedin said:

It is confusing that the P3D interface is named "axis Rudder" when it is actually the Pedals they mean, there are four different quantities: Pedals and Tiller are inputs, Nose-wheel and Rudder are outputs.

"Rudder", "Aileron", "Elevator" and "Throttle" controls are named that in respect of the "output" they affect. Surely it would be far more confusing to call them by other names. You can't just refer to "pedals" as many folks don't have pedals and either use auto-rudder or control it by a twist on a stick, or just keyboard. Same really applies to the others. You name a control after the affect it has.

8 hours ago, lvedin said:

I did also try the tiller input named "axis Steering set" in P3D, it behavior exactly like the pedals, just a parallel input. 

Interesting. Thank you. I didn't know that. So the FSUIPC facilities are currently as good as it gets.

I suspect, though, that some add-on aircraft use the Steering Axis input to make the visual nosewheel turn, even if the actual effect is no different.

Pete

 

[lvedin]

 

1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

So the FSUIPC facilities are currently as good as it gets.

Yes, I since the FSX/P3D SDK does not support control of the actual output nose-wheel and rudder individual.
I assigned tiller separate and lowered "rudder" sensitivity to 60%, it cannot be avoided it affect both nose-wheel and rudder, but I like high-speed steering better now.

Regards Lennart Vedin