Problem with rudder pedals

[gasparr]

Have a good day gents.

I have a P3Dv4.5HF3, FSUIPC v5.156, Win10 2004 Home, T.16000M Joy, Gametrix ECS throttle, and CH Pro Pedals.

All controls axes is set via FSUIPC direct calibration except Steering tiller axes, which is set via FSUIPC as Normal Axes.

Since the last re-installation of the system and the simulator, I noticed strange rudder behavior. In the parking lot, the pedals and rudder make a full stroke, however, as soon as the movement begins, the stroke is limited to a very small angle until the speed rises above 40 knots.

I have not noticed this before. I tried to search for a discussion of this problem and found the RudderBlendLowest parameter, but neither setting the value to 0 nor deleting this line solved the problem.

I fly on fslabs 320 and the full movement of pedals at low speeds is necessary for the correct functioning of steering.

I will attach two videos for a more visual description of the problem.

 

FSUIPC5.ini

Edited June 6, 2020 by gasparr

[Pete Dowson]

3 hours ago, gasparr said:

All controls axes is set via FSUIPC direct calibration except Steering tiller axes, which is set via FSUIPC as Normal Axes.

Why? Why not the FSUIPC direct steering tiller like the others?

3 hours ago, gasparr said:

I noticed strange rudder behavior. In the parking lot, the pedals and rudder make a full stroke, however, as soon as the movement begins, the stroke is limited to a very small angle until the speed rises above 40 knots.

When taxiing you need to use the steering tiller. That is what it is for. the rudder takes over at higher speeds, as on the take-off roll. Why have you got a tiller assigned if you want to use the rudder for steering? Rudders may be effective on light aircraft for steering assistance, but no way can they turn an airliner at low speeds.

You have both tiller and rudder calibrated in FSUIPC, so FSUIPC cleverly balances the use of the tiller and rudder according to ground speed. The crossover speed is dictated by the MaxSteerSpeed in the Calibration section of the INI. You have that defaulted to 60, so at 30 knots GS on the ground the tiller and rudder have equal effect. The rudder takes over completely at 60.

This is all described in the documentation. See the boxed section on page 34 in the User Guide, and for more details on the parameters involved, page 11 of the Advanced User's guide. There you will also find details of RudderBlendLowest.

3 hours ago, gasparr said:

I have not noticed this before. I tried to search for a discussion of this problem and found the RudderBlendLowest parameter, but neither setting the value to 0 nor deleting this line solved the problem.

You didn't think of looking in FSUIPC documentation, though? 😞

The RudderBlendLowest affects the lowest speed when the blending of the two inputs starts. it defaults at 1 knot mainly so that you can check visually that the pedals move the rudder before setting off -- i.e when static. As soon as you start moving you don't want the rudder steering until you are over normal taxiing speeds.

So, it isn't a "problem", it is exactly as designed -- to make things more realistic.

3 hours ago, gasparr said:

I fly on fslabs 320 and the full movement of pedals at low speeds is necessary for the correct functioning of steering.

I don't understand. What is your tiller assignment for, then? Why is is assigned for the FSL profile and calibrated if you don't want to use it?

If you aren't using the tiller then the best I can suggest is that you simply delete both the assignment and the calibration, and find another use for that axis.  Just delete these lines in your INI:

3=1R,256,F,66818,0,0,0    -{ TO SIM: STEERING_SET }-
and
SteeringTiller=-16380,-512,512,16380/8

Pete

 

[gasparr]

30 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Why? Why not the FSUIPC direct steering tiller like the others?

Simply because in this case FSLabs tiller does`t working, rather, it works incorrectly. The tiller handle remains stationary, and the pedals deviate at full speed, deflecting the rudder at full speed, and the turn nose landing gear at +-6 degrees. In short, when assigning the axis of the tiller through the direct steering tiller fsupic, it performs the pedals on a real plane. When the tiller axis is assigned as the normal axis, the tiller in the model works correctly, the handle rotates, unfolding the nose gear at +-78 degrees around the axis.

1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

When taxiing you need to use the steering tiller. That is what it is for. the rudder takes over at higher speeds, as on the take-off roll. Why have you got a tiller assigned if you want to use the rudder for steering? Rudders may be effective on light aircraft for steering assistance, but no way can they turn an airliner at low speeds.

Thanks i know this. I need to use rudder axes for steering because its recommended operation in straight sections at speeds over 10 knots, thanks to the limited angle of rotation of the nose gear by 6 degrees.

1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

So, it isn't a "problem", it is exactly as designed -- to make things more realistic.

Ok i understand, I just want to remove this restriction from my pedals, for the correct simulation of a real plane. Because in previous versions of fsupic I did not observe a similar phenomenon. FSLabs developers said that there were no changes in recent updates of the model concerning taxiing system, what I myself guessed, first blaming the model from the FSLABs for this, and then noticing the same behavior on the default models.

1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

I don't understand. What is your tiller assignment for, then? Why is is assigned for the FSL profile and calibrated if you don't want to use it?

I use combination of 2 axes, one twist axes on my T.16000M for steering tiller operations at low speed and sharp turns, and second rudder axes on my CH Pedals to control rudder and nose gear at straight sections of taxiway.

I apologize for my English, Pete, Regards,

Nikita

[Pete Dowson]

10 hours ago, gasparr said:

When the tiller axis is assigned as the normal axis, the tiller in the model works correctly, the handle rotates, unfolding the nose gear at +-78 degrees around the axis.

So if it works so well, why aren't you using it to taxi instead of the Rudder?

10 hours ago, gasparr said:

Because in previous versions of fsupic I did not observe a similar phenomenon

I'm pretty sure FSUIPC hasn't changed. Maybe previously you hadn't calibrated the tiller in FSUIPC.

10 hours ago, gasparr said:

noticing the same behavior on the default models.

Of course, in order to provide more realistic operation of the tiller and rudder on the ground!

10 hours ago, gasparr said:

I use combination of 2 axes, one twist axes on my T.16000M for steering tiller operations at low speed and sharp turns, and second rudder axes on my CH Pedals to control rudder and nose gear at straight sections of taxiway.

That's not really normal unless you are taxiing at speeds well above the maximum allowed. Why not use the tiller all the time until you need the rudder for takeoff? That's how it is designed and appreciated by most airliner flyers.

If you don't want FSUIPC's blending at your "straight section" taxiing speeds, then either remove the calibration of the tiller from FSUIPC (which will disable the facility altogether), or decrease the MaxSteerSpeed parameter, so that the rudder takes over earlier instead of the tiller.

However, either step seems very odd indeed to me.

Removing the calibration won't change much as the values you've set (or left be) look pretty much default. OR, if you just want less sensitivity of the steering for the more gentle adjustments on straight sections you should consider flattening the slope in the centre (choose a suitable slop in the calibration tab).

Pete

 

 

[adrem]

I have the same setup with regards to the steering and rudder axes and don't have this issue. It is my understanding that the blending of the tiller and rudder axes should be enabled only when you select SteeringTiller from the 'Send direct to FSUIPC' dropdown, but that's obviously not the case with OP, for some reason.

Here's my ini for comparison: FSUIPC6.ini

By the way, I also like to use my rudder for small corrections on straight taxiway segments, even though I have a replica of the real tiller.

[Pete Dowson]

19 minutes ago, adrem said:

It is my understanding that the blending of the tiller and rudder axes should be enabled only when you select SteeringTiller from the 'Send direct to FSUIPC' dropdown, but that's obviously not the case with OP, for some reason.

Hmm. I'd have to check that.

19 minutes ago, adrem said:

I also like to use my rudder for small corrections on straight taxiway segments, even though I have a replica of the real tiller.

But for a real airliner surely the rudder has no effect at taxi speeds?  The tiller would always be used I thought.

The blending action was implemented to provide more realism, and it was mainly in answer to user requests.  The same action is more recently also provided in the cockpit system software I use (ProSim737).

Pete

 

 

[adrem]

10 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

But for a real airliner surely the rudder has no effect at taxi speeds? 

Not the rudder itself, of course, but the pedals are linked with the NWS system to control the nose wheel at a limited angle (max 6 degrees on A320).

[gasparr]

15 minutes ago, adrem said:

Not the rudder itself, of course, but the pedals are linked with the NWS system to control the nose wheel at a limited angle (max 6 degrees on A320).

This is exactly what I want to explain to Pete)

29 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

The blending action was implemented to provide more realism, and it was mainly in answer to user requests.  The same action is more recently also provided in the cockpit system software I use (ProSim737).

I don’t know how in other modern models, but in the fslabs the axes are configured in such a way as to match the prototype as much as possible and this function unfortunately interferes with the correct operation of the axes.  Maybe is it possible to make it disabled?

58 minutes ago, adrem said:

It is my understanding that the blending of the tiller and rudder axes should be enabled only when you select SteeringTiller from the 'Send direct to FSUIPC' dropdown, but that's obviously not the case with OP, for some reason.

Nope, my steering tiller are set as normal FS axes, because only this option correctly working with FSL.

[Pete Dowson]

42 minutes ago, adrem said:

Not the rudder itself, of course, but the pedals are linked with the NWS system to control the nose wheel at a limited angle (max 6 degrees on A320).

Ah ... one is always learning! 😉

18 minutes ago, gasparr said:

I don’t know how in other modern models, but in the fslabs the axes are configured in such a way as to match the prototype as much as possible and this function unfortunately interferes with the correct operation of the axes.  Maybe is it possible to make it disabled?

If it really is the FSUIPC blending which is occurring (and adrem has cast doubt on that), then just removing the calibration of the tiller in FSUIPC will do it, or you can adjust it for speed with the parameter as I said.

I see Adrem is using FSUIPC6 whilst you are using FSUIPC 5.156. However, the coding in this area is actually identical, so at present I fail to understand how you have different results.

Adrem has calibrated his Rudder and Tiller as follows:

Rudder=-16380,-581,768,16380
SteeringTiller=-16380,165,512,16380

Yours is:

Rudder=-16380,-512,512,16380
SteeringTiller=-16380,-512,512,16380/8

The values in the gasparr calibration are all default, so no actual calibration setting have been made -- apart from the option /8 which actually means "Direct" ...
... so, somehow, gasparr's assignment is known as a direct assignment. Apart from that choice in the Axis assignments tab, that occurs if it is assigned via an external application to specific offsets!

So the plot thickens. I think we may need more inforamtion from gaspar.

First, please gasparr delete that calibration line and try re-calibrating. Then see what happens and show us the INI file again.

Pete

 

[gasparr]

So, good news gents!

Once again doing the calibration and adjustment of the axes, after a long search for a problem, I suddenly accidentally noticed that the axis of the tiller is not named as it was before. And that was the key to solving this puzzle! I remembered that earlier I assigned the axis of the tiller as a "Sterling set", but this time for some reason I assigned it as "Axis Steering Inc Set"...

Аfter assigning this axis as a "Sterling set", everything returned to normal, the restrictions on the direction of the rudder disappeared!

It seems like a two-month quarantine away from my pc made me forget some important things.

I express my deep gratitude to Pete and Adrem, be healthy!

 

FSUIPC5.ini

[Pete Dowson]

2 hours ago, gasparr said:

I remembered that earlier I assigned the axis of the tiller as a "Sterling set", but this time for some reason I assigned it as "Axis Steering Inc Set"...

So the INI file with your settings, attached to your first post, wasn't the one actually in use!

Durhh! No wonder we couldn't figure it out! 😞

Glad you finally discovered the error. 😉

Pete