Possible problem with new engine sync facility in PFC

[Frank.O]

Hi Pete,

I'm using FS9, PFC 1.72, FSUIPC 3.11 and WideFS 6.101.

Today I used the new sync facility in PFC a bit more intensivly for the first time and came across a strange problem. I was flying from Stuttgart (EDDS) to Innsbruck (LOWI) with the Baron. Having reached my cruise altitude of 13000' I turned on the prop sync switch on the cirrus2 and checked the ECU on screen. It worked, both engines were slaved to the controls of engine one. But after a short time the airplane suddenly became somehow touchy on the controls (especially pitch and yaw) and then the left engine (#1) died. I tried to readjust the engine controls but this didn't help. Then I turned prop sync off and the engine came back on. I repeated this for about ten times with always exactly the same result.

Is this possible ? Or is it simply me doing something wrong. Before I engaged prop sync I carefully adjusted the engines to show equivalent values on the engine gauges.

During my last attempt I also did an FSUIPC log. I logged everything exept the weather, but the file is pretty large (396k) and I'm not sure if it's of any use.

Any ideas about this?

Best regards

Frank

[Pete Dowson]

But after a short time the airplane suddenly became somehow touchy on the controls (especially pitch and yaw) and then the left engine (#1) died. I tried to readjust the engine controls but this didn't help. Then I turned prop sync off and the engine came back on. I repeated this for about ten times with always exactly the same result.

The only problem I know about (and I will address this) is that the facility copies the last INPUT values for Engine 1 to the other engines. This applies to throttle, prop and mixure/conditioner. It sounds like you made no input to the mixture/conditioner, so the internal value for that was zero. Do you think this could be the case?

Mind you, I'm not sure why only Engine 1 died. They all should I think.

I had assumed, of course, that inputs for all three components would apply every time. But I already had a message from Bob Scott who apparently adjusts the mix/condition on the FS panel with a mouse, so I never see the input, and so set zero.

The answer is for me to READ the current prop and mixture settings from FS and apply those to the the other engines. Then even if there has been no axis input it should be okay.

He also asks for the FS Prop Sync control to ONLY operate prop sync, not also throttle and mox. So I would ned to separate the two functions I've implemented. What do you think?

Regards,

Pete

[nmthomas]

Hi Pete,

I assume you are talking about the "axis smooth time" in pfc 172. If you recall I emailed you privately about FSD's Seneca and the default Baron doing a snake dance all the time.

Well after installing pfc 172 and tweaking the yoke inputs the 2 aircraft fly great. Had the engine stall I think once but never happened again, then I have the throttle quadrants and move the prop & mix around.

Pfc 172 seemed to do the trick curing my problem. Thank you for a fine piece of work.

Regards,

Nick

[Pete Dowson]

I assume you are talking about the "axis smooth time" in pfc 172.

No, the last question which I tried to answer was to do with the Prop Sync and Throttle/Proc/Mix Sync facility I included in PFC 172 also. It seems I didn't cater for all possibilities of configuration -- such as when an axis hasn't been previously used to set prop or mixture/conditioning.

Pfc 172 seemed to do the trick curing my problem. Thank you for a fine piece of work.

Good! thanks for letting me know!

Regards,

Pete

[Frank.O]

Good morning Pete.

The only problem I know about (and I will address this) is that the facility copies the last INPUT values for Engine 1 to the other engines. This applies to throttle, prop and mixure/conditioner. It sounds like you made no input to the mixture/conditioner, so the internal value for that was zero. Do you think this could be the case?

Hm... after reaching cruise altitude and just before engaging prop sync I allways make inputs to prop and mixture on the throttle quadrant thus manually synchronizing the engines first. The throttles almost allways stay at full because the manifold pressure is less than 25"(max cruise setting) above 5000'. So may be the internal zero value applies to the throttles but that shouldn't kill the engine.

Mind you, I'm not sure why only Engine 1 died.

Neither am I. And also the engine didn't die immediately after engaging prop sync. There were delays of one to three minutes before this happened.

The answer is for me to READ the current prop and mixture settings from FS and apply those to the the other engines. Then even if there has been no axis input it should be okay.

Yes I think that should work.

He also asks for the FS Prop Sync control to ONLY operate prop sync, not also throttle and mox. So I would ned to separate the two functions I've implemented. What do you think?

Well I think that it might be enough to operate prop sync only and leave mix and throttle alone because - as Nick already mentioned - the other smoothing facility works quite well and the snake dance in cruise is significant less than before. You've done a very good job on this :) .

All the best,

Frank

[Pete Dowson]

Hm... after reaching cruise altitude and just before engaging prop sync I allways make inputs to prop and mixture on the throttle quadrant thus manually synchronizing the engines first.

Do you use separate axes for each engine for all three -- throttle, prop, and mixture? If so then I really have no idea how copying the engine 1 inputs to the other engine can cause anything whatsoever to stall. However, if you use, say, twin throttles, but a common prop pitch and/or mixture axis for both engines, then possibly my "Sync" is those FS controls into the others resulting in different scaling.

There again, though, it should only be Engines 2-4 which would be affected. There's really no way I am touching Engine 1, that's just the source.

... the engine didn't die immediately after engaging prop sync. There were delays of one to three minutes before this happened.

I am indeed at a complete loss as to what is going on then. Are you sure it isn't some coincidence of something else happening?

Yes I think that should work.

But, again, it makes no difference to Engine 1, so nothing I do will prevent that failing!

Well I think that it might be enough to operate prop sync only

In that case, since FS already has a Prop Sync control, I might as well take all this new code out and be done. :(

Regards,

Pete

[Frank.O]

Hi Pete.

Do you use separate axes for each engine for all three -- throttle, prop, and mixture? If so then I really have no idea how copying the engine 1 inputs to the other engine can cause anything whatsoever to stall.

I'm using a cirrus2 console with a twin prop Quadrant attached (six levers)

I am indeed at a complete loss as to what is going on then. Are you sure it isn't some coincidence of something else happening?

I've squeezed my brain but have no idea what this could be. The computer is new, FS9 is the only program running and there are no addons installed, just the pure FS.

Well I think that it might be enough to operate prop sync only

In that case, since FS already has a Prop Sync control, I might as well take all this new code out and be done. :(

I'm sorry about the wasted time allthough I think you might leave in the sync for the props. The FS internal prop sync control has never made the props to be really sync'ed.

Regards,

Frank

[Pete Dowson]

I think you might leave in the sync for the props. The FS internal prop sync control has never made the props to be really sync'ed.

But what does it do then? If I leave it in will I get complaints from others who say I've mucked up their cockpit now and stopped Prop Sync doing what it is really supposed to do? This is happening al the time now -- almost everything I put in is not liked by someone or other.

Pete

[Frank.O]

Hi

I think you might leave in the sync for the props. The FS internal prop sync control has never made the props to be really sync'ed.

But what does it do then? If I leave it in will I get complaints from others who say I've mucked up their cockpit now and stopped Prop Sync doing what it is really supposed to do? This is happening al the time now -- almost everything I put in is not liked by someone or other.

you're right, Pete, and I can understand your frustration. Perhaps we all have gotten to much used to requesting features that are more and more tailored for personal needs rather than for common interests. I think I will take a step back, enjoy what I have and not mourn about little inconveniences.

Concerning the prop sync - I really can't tell what the FS internal control does. So I must agree with you. It's probably the best way to take the new engine sync facility out completely before getting complaints about conflicts with others setups.

Sorry Pete, it was never ment to upset or offend you in any way. I highly appreciate your work and your great support.

Otherwise I wouldn't have donated 100 Euros back then.

So far...

Frank

[Pete Dowson]

Concerning the prop sync - I really can't tell what the FS internal control does. So I must agree with you. It's probably the best way to take the new engine sync facility out completely before getting complaints about conflicts with others setups.

Well I should probably just remove its connection with the FS prop sync. The facility itself shouldn't do any harm if folks don't use it, and I will tidy up the way it syncs things to use existing values rather than previous input values.

I just think I shouldn't do anything with the FS prop sync at all for now.

However, saying that, I have just received the first complaint (by private email for some reason) that what you experienced also occurred after upgrading to 1.72, without even using the Sync facility at allso I really don't understand how that happened. Maybe it's the power of suggestion, from this thread! :lol:

Sorry Pete, it was never ment to upset or offend you in any way.

Don't worry, you didn't. I've just got such a long list of things to do, some large, some not, that going backwards is rather frustrating. It was an easy facility to put in, which was why it ws done so quickly, but the aftermath has made it a big thing. Never mind. I'll sort it out.

Regards,

Pete