Microstutter with MSFS SU12 beta

[DrRock]

Hello,

edit: on a hunch I tried uninstalling an reinstalling FSUIPC7 (but without any of the "extras" selected) and now I can't reproduce the issue. ignore what's below

 

I recently for the first time needed to install FSUIPC7 for a new piece of software (A Pilot's Life 2), and have noticed that there's a bit of a performance impact. 

Importantly, even with A Pilot's Life closed (and nothing else I own uses FSUIPC7), I get what I'm calling "microstutters" about once every second. Very small, rhythmic hiccups in the frame rate that might not be noticed by many players.  If I attempt to pan the view rapidly with the mouse I also get some more frank stuttering.  If I go into the FSUIPC7 app and click MSFS->disconnect, the microstutters disappear and so does the stuttering with panning; reconnect and the microstutters come back. 

Anyhow, I posted this over on the MSFS forums and most of the users there claim there is zero performance hit from FSUIPC7, so I thought I'd bring this up in case it's not yet on your radar here; might be an issue with the new beta. At least one other person in that thread sees what I'm seeing.

FWIW, my specs: i7-9700k, 3080, Win 11, 64GB RAM, MSFS (SU12 beta) on a custom graphics setting somewhere between high and ultra.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by DrRock

[John Dowson]

14 hours ago, DrRock said:

on a hunch I tried uninstalling an reinstalling FSUIPC7 (but without any of the "extras" selected) and now I can't reproduce the issue. ignore what's below

By "extras" do you mean the components under Extras in the installer? If so, these don't actually do anything, unless you actually use them, so I can't see how they could have any affect om performance at all...
 

[FlyingDutchman77]

Actually the same happened to me today. Not having this issue ever before. Seems to be related to the SU12beta. Will report any further experiences! 

 

[flyblueskies]

I also have the same microstutters with SU12beta, with FSUIPC7 v. 7.3.16. If I disconnect FSUIPC7, the microstutters stop. When I reconnect, they start again.

For me, they are more noticeable with lots of autogen and mesh (as noticed at NZQN).

NOTE: Also using Track IR. When I look left or right, that's when I notice the microstutters the most...

Edited February 25, 2023 by flyblueskies

[ljk811]

I had the same problem in SU12, when I turned off fsuipc7, the stuttering disappeared.

[John Dowson]

I am not using the SU12 beta yet - I will try and make some disk space and install this with the beta-switcher next week and take a look.
 

Is this occurring with the registered or unregistered version of FSUIPC7, or both? Could you also maybe try without the FSUIPC7 WASM module, if using that - just (temporarily) remove it from your Community folder before starting MSFS. Would be useful to know if this is related to the WASM or not.

Are you using any other SimConnect clients, and if so do they give the same issue?

John

[FlyingDutchman77]

I will test without the wasm module. 

All other simconnect clients are fine. Mobiflight wasm is also not giving these stutters.

Thx for having a look!

[FlyingDutchman77]

Not sure if this is related, but there are a lot of messages being caused by FSUIPC (reported on the MSFS forum: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/fsuipc-introduces-microstutters-every-second-su12beta/578005/15

 

[MrFabian92]

https://ibb.co/vqYWgvx

Here is photo with problem with FSIUPC on MSFS Beta 12
This error occurs several hundred times per second. Ater disabling FSIUPC is disappears completely.
 

[FlyingDutchman77]

With wasm loaded: 

 

Without wasm loaded:

So it is not the wasm. However, it takes a while for this to occur (let say 1-2 minutes after loading the flight for me).

I will also update everything to the latest version and report the results. EDIT: Updated and issue is still present. So in version 7.3.17 and wasm 1.0.0.

 

[MrFabian92]

13 minutes ago, FlyingDutchman77 said:

With wasm loaded: 

 

Without wasm loaded:

So it is not the wasm. However, it takes a while for this to occur (let say 1-2 minutes after loading the flight for me).

I will also update everything to the latest version and report the results.

 

We are waiting for your result

[flyblueskies]

I'm adding a bit more information in that I am flying the TBM930. Also, not sure if this is the same link that FlyingDutchman posted, but here is a link that explains a bit more about the 'Attempting to call Modular fuel...' messages in the Dev console.

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/stuttering-after-update/577008/63

I am using the unregistered version of FSUIPC7 (v7.3.17 now).

Edited February 26, 2023 by flyblueskies

[MrFabian92]

9 minutes ago, flyblueskies said:

Dodaję trochę więcej informacji, że latam na TBM930. Ponadto nie jestem pewien, czy jest to ten sam link, który opublikował FlyingDutchman, ale tutaj jest link, który wyjaśnia nieco więcej na temat komunikatów „Próba wywołania paliwa modułowego…” w konsoli deweloperskiej.

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/stuttering-after-update/577008/63

Używam niezarejestrowanej wersji FSUIPC7 (obecnie v7.3.17).

I believe FSIUPC will fix it.  It's really great software with perfect support.

[John Dowson]

2 hours ago, FlyingDutchman77 said:

Not sure if this is related, but there are a lot of messages being caused by FSUIPC (reported on the MSFS forum: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/fsuipc-introduces-microstutters-every-second-su12beta/578005/15

This is not new - has been present since MSFS was released, and so is not related to the current issue. This problem has been reported to MSFS/Asobo already and still waiting a resolution. When such a simvar is requested, an error is reported, but for some reason such messages are logged at either 6Hz or frame/visual frame rate (depending on how FSUIPC requests the simvar). I really can't do anything about this, and it is up to Asobo to either return an appropriate error when such a simvar is requested, or to stop logging such messages.
As FSUIPC is aircraft-agnostic, there is no way it can know what simvars to request depending on the aircraft loaded. Indeed, all simvars are currently requested even before an aircraft is selected....

John

[MrFabian92]

1 hour ago, John Dowson said:

This is not new - has been present since MSFS was released, and so is not related to the current issue. This problem has been reported to MSFS/Asobo already and still waiting a resolution. When such a simvar is requested, an error is reported, but for some reason such messages are logged at either 6Hz or frame/visual frame rate (depending on how FSUIPC requests the simvar). I really can't do anything about this, and it is up to Asobo to either return an appropriate error when such a simvar is requested, or to stop logging such messages.
As FSUIPC is aircraft-agnostic, there is no way it can know what simvars to request depending on the aircraft loaded. Indeed, all simvars are currently requested even before an aircraft is selected....

John

Wouldn't it be possible for you to add a version that doesn't ask for fuel system? So that we don't have this error until Asobo fixes it?  

The new version of FSIUPC also does not read light switches in aircraft, e.g. PMDG. Can't see them switching.

[MrFabian92]

This is FPS with FSIUPC

[MrFabian92]

And this is when i close FSIUPC

[MrFabian92]

17 hours ago, John Dowson said:

This is not new - has been present since MSFS was released, and so is not related to the current issue. This problem has been reported to MSFS/Asobo already and still waiting a resolution. When such a simvar is requested, an error is reported, but for some reason such messages are logged at either 6Hz or frame/visual frame rate (depending on how FSUIPC requests the simvar). I really can't do anything about this, and it is up to Asobo to either return an appropriate error when such a simvar is requested, or to stop logging such messages.
As FSUIPC is aircraft-agnostic, there is no way it can know what simvars to request depending on the aircraft loaded. Indeed, all simvars are currently requested even before an aircraft is selected....

John

Is it possible to disable FSIUPC's simvar Fuel System query in the configuration file?

[John Dowson]

17 hours ago, MrFabian92 said:

Wouldn't it be possible for you to add a version that doesn't ask for fuel system? So that we don't have this error until Asobo fixes it?  

No, not easily... FSUIPC is aircraft agnostic and requests all simvars once a simconnect connection is established, not once an aircraft is loaded. It would be a major change to only start requesting simvars once an aircraft is loaded, and to also determine what to request depending on systems used by the current loaded aircraft. The problem is that simconnect doesn't return any errors if you request an simvar that is not available/used by the currently loaded aircraft, and the only way yo know this is by those console messages.

Anyway, as I said, this issue has been present since MSFS was released, and shouldn't be the cause of this current performance issue in the SU12 beta. Something else must gave changed...

I will look into installing the beta later this week and report back once I have investigated this issue.

 

[MrFabian92]

23 minutes ago, John Dowson said:

No, not easily... FSUIPC is aircraft agnostic and requests all simvars once a simconnect connection is established, not once an aircraft is loaded. It would be a major change to only start requesting simvars once an aircraft is loaded, and to also determine what to request depending on systems used by the current loaded aircraft. The problem is that simconnect doesn't return any errors if you request an simvar that is not available/used by the currently loaded aircraft, and the only way yo know this is by those console messages.

Anyway, as I said, this issue has been present since MSFS was released, and shouldn't be the cause of this current performance issue in the SU12 beta. Something else must gave changed...

I will look into installing the beta later this week and report back once I have investigated this issue.

 

You're right, this problem was there from the beginning. Now, unfortunately, it causes about 400-500 requests per second (according to the console counter), which results in a FPS drop of about 10-12.  When FSIUPC is disabled FPS goes back to normal.

[FlyingDutchman77]

1 hour ago, MrFabian92 said:

Now, unfortunately, it causes about 400-500 requests per second (according to the console counter), which results in a FPS drop of about 10-12.  When FSIUPC is disabled FPS goes back to normal.

What John is saying, that although those messages are there, this is not the cause of the current FPS drop. MS/Asobo has changed something in SU12 beta that is causing the FPS drop. Let's just wait until he has investigated. His support has been great so far, so I trust this will be sorted as well.

[MrFabian92]

25 minutes ago, FlyingDutchman77 said:

What John is saying, that although those messages are there, this is not the cause of the current FPS drop. MS/Asobo has changed something in SU12 beta that is causing the FPS drop. Let's just wait until he has investigated. His support has been great so far, so I trust this will be sorted as well.

Really? Then how do you explain the return to normal frames when I turn off FSIUPC?  Without FSUIPC, the frames are normal. As soon as I turn on FSIUPC the frames drop.

[Coupe X]

I am having the exact same issue. i understand it may be a conflict between ms and fsuipc.  but it 100% is not an issue without fsuipc. i realize fsuipc is asking a question, and ms is not giving an answer it likes, or none at all, but why does fsuipc continue to ask the question 65000 times in 5 min?  and reverting to pre su12beta doesnt help.  once this issue started, the only option is no fsuipc.  im not here to complain, im just saying i have this issue, i understand its a beta, and i only use fsuipc for LRM currently so i can use the simconnect beta version of it.  if you get the above errors in the console, clear it while the fps counter is up. you can watch as the errors keep climbing, the stutters start when the log is full and is clearing back down a few hundred and repeating that process. but when you clear the log the frames pop back and the errors start building again.  without fsuipc, few errors, no buildup, and no stutters.  if i can provide any other info, let me know. and i did not have this issue with the su12beta until i installed the new fsuipc. it worked fine, on whatever previous version of fsuipc i was using while in the beta, i jsut dont remember what ver i was on, and cant get old versions anyhow.

[AUA9085]

I am sure that it has something to do with the WASM change they did in SU12.

If I disable WASM Module in FSUIPC the stutters and the error messeges in the log are gone.

As I am using FSUIPC only for connection between the VA Client and MSFS I think I can live without the WASM enabled for the moment, but I am sure there will be a fix found for this :)

[John Dowson]

20 hours ago, MrFabian92 said:

Really? Then how do you explain the return to normal frames when I turn off FSIUPC?  Without FSUIPC, the frames are normal. As soon as I turn on FSIUPC the frames drop.

I was not saying the issue is not due to FSUIPC, but was questioning as to whether it is due to those console messages, as they were also present in previous versions of MSFS - although maybe they are now logged at an increased rate. As those messages related to the use of the "Modular Fuel System", have you tried with an aircraft that uses this system? I would suspect/hope that these messages wouldn't be logged in such an aircraft, and it would be interesting to know if there was also a frame-rate drop in such an aircraft.

I'm also not sure what the Modular Fuel System is - is the the new 'modern component fuel system' as opposed to the legacy one? If you could log offset 0x07A8 (NEW FUEL SYSTEM) and maybe also 0x07A9 (NEW ELECTRICAL SYSTEM) using FSUIPC's Log->Offsets... facility (both as U8) and see what these hold when these micro-stutters occur, and if they only occur in aircraft that use or don't use these new systems.

I also see there is a new MSFS release today - is this the SU12 release? If so, I can not longer test against the previous release to see what has changed, which is a shame...or is there still a beta available?

12 hours ago, Coupe X said:

but why does fsuipc continue to ask the question 65000 times in 5 min?

It doesn't - it requests these variables once only, to be received at a specific frequency (either a 1hz, 6Hz, Frame or VisualFrame rate, depending on the variable). No errors are received when requested. It is MSFS that is then logging these errors at this rate for some reason - there is nothing received by MSFS that indicates that this is occurring.

4 minutes ago, AUA9085 said:

I am sure that it has something to do with the WASM change they did in SU12.

If I disable WASM Module in FSUIPC the stutters and the error messeges in the log are gone.

This is now getting confusing...some people say that its FSUIPC, others have said re-installing FSUIPC solved the issue, and now you say it is caused by the WASM....
Are you still getting those messages logged? What aircraft are you using? What version of FSUIPC are you using? What LvarUpdateFrequency are you using?
If using the latest release, v7.3.17, could you try with the new feature that scans for lvars disabled, by setting the following parameter in your FSUIPC_WASM.ini file:
    LvarScanFrequency=0

 

John