AVC versus MS ATC combo-button programming?

[Agrajag]

Pete,

I've read over the documentation and have buttons pretty much down and see that you support AVC (thanks!) for PTT functionality.

However, I got to thinking of an optimal situation that I can't seem to make work and wonder if it's just not possible.

In FS, the default key for ATC is the reverse apostrophe key below the tilde as you know. I thought it would be optimal to also use this key for AVC because when you setup VATSIM, that key no longer means anything to FS, thus, why not use it in AVC for the same purpose?

I also ordered Radar Contact (thanks for the recommendation) and suspect this won't be possible there. But that raises a point that I'd really rather not have 3 buttons or keys just to do ATC.

Is there a work-around or must each solution have its own path? In AVC I suspect it's not a big deal as I shouldn't ever need to use a key itself. Thus this may be another case where I'm building a bridge in the middle of a field. I just got to thinking that if I got the right trigger of the Yoke to send the MS ATC key it would work when I'm flying solo and then if I set the AVC key to be the same key, it would also work when I'm flying VATSIM. Or does being in multiplayer just trap this key entirely keeping it from serving two masters?

[Pete Dowson]

I've read over the documentation and have buttons pretty much down and see that you support AVC (thanks!) for PTT functionality.

Well, that wasn't so much me, but the AVC programmers using the same system (a Registered message) as Roger Wilco, which I supported for many years.

In FS, the default key for ATC is the reverse apostrophe key below the tilde as you know. I thought it would be optimal to also use this key for AVC because when you setup VATSIM, that key no longer means anything to FS, thus, why not use it in AVC for the same purpose?

The key assigned in AVC is irrelevant to FSUIPC because it sends the controls to AVC directly, not via the keyboard. If you use a button for PTT there is no keyboard key involved.

I also ordered Radar Contact (thanks for the recommendation) and suspect this won't be possible there. But that raises a point that I'd really rather not have 3 buttons or keys just to do ATC.

Well, you won't like RC then, as it needs many more than 3 for all the different requests and replies you may need to give. The FS ATC also uses more than just the one to open its window. There's really no equivalent of "Push To Talk" in either case.

Is there a work-around or must each solution have its own path?

Since neither RC nor FS ATC uses "PTT", and AVC only uses PTT, I can't see that there is anything in common at all. Sorry, I'm not sure what you are hoping to achieve. With on-line flying you have real humans listening to you and interpreting your requests. With FS ATC and RC you don't, so you use different keys. You can of course try using MS GameVoice or the recent Voice Buddy, to convert voiced commands to keypresses -- maybe the PTT comes into action then?

I just got to thinking that if I got the right trigger of the Yoke to send the MS ATC key it would work when I'm flying solo and then if I set the AVC key to be the same key, it would also work when I'm flying VATSIM. Or does being in multiplayer just trap this key entirely keeping it from serving two masters?

FSUIPC looks at the key before FS does so multiplayer or otherwise is irrelevant. If you want a button to both send the FS ATC window keypress as well as sending PTT to AVC you can do that, you can have a number of things all happening when you press the button. But to do this you have to edit the FSUIPC.INI file. Full details are provided in the Advanced Users Guide for FSUIPC.

Regards,

Pete

[Agrajag]

Well, you won't like RC then, as it needs many more than 3 for all the different requests and replies you may need to give.

That I can live with for now until such time as we have a scrollable menu interface. Since MS ATC is that way, RC isn't any worse off so I'll still be okay there. Now that I realize you still only need one button to call up the main AVC interface and the same button to put it away (I read that wrong the first time) I'm fine there (On press/On release feature).

I'm not entirely sure why ATC is shutdown in FS when you go multiplayer. I'm sure there's an obvious reason, but it doesn't come up when you hit the key for it anymore which is what gave me the idea. It actually sounds to me like what I want to do will work without a lot of extra editing and such but I will read the Advanced Guide all the same.

The key is you reading the key before MS does, I think. I just don't know where AVC is in that loop. If I use a the default key for MS ATC and you see it in multiplayer mode (I've pressed that button) then I believe AVC should see it unless MS somehow stomps it before it gets to them.

Lots to look into, thanks.

[Agrajag]

Hey, I think I got it working without advanced editing. I goofed (what else is new?)

I had both the key AND button assigned in FS and that kept it from working. Once I removed the button assignment, you were able to take it over and when I then go into AVC and choose the section to select the key for PTT, when I hit that button, you send the right key and AVC now sees it. Since it sees it there it should see it anyway and thus, no need for any complication. We'll see. Didn't have the time to actually fly right now to be sure.

[Pete Dowson]

I'm not entirely sure why ATC is shutdown in FS when you go multiplayer.

Not just ATC, also the AI traffic system.

As far as I remember, when this has been discussed with Microsoft, attempting to give correct ATC and handle AI Traffic in combination with injecting aircraft from the MP interface and sending data out through it was simply too big and complex a job to sort out for one release. Rather than create situations which were not handled correctly (MP aircraft in ATC space as well as MP aircraft / AI Traffic interactions) and so facing many possible complaints, MS probably though that merely providing a clean MP environment would be better both for users and for them.

Regards,

Pete

[Agrajag]

I can't say I disagree with them. Maybe in a future release. It's amazing to think of what an FS20 would be like. So many possibilities. In virtually every corner of this sim there is something that can be dramatically improved or added entirely. It never ceases to amaze me.

On the downside of that, here we are 10 versions in and I'm surprised some things haven't been done at all or not very well.

[Agrajag]

Just to let you know, after one mistake my theory did work like a champ. I told FS to assign the reverse apostrophe to ATC. Removed the Button assignment. Told FSUIPC to map button "1" to the reverse apostrophe key. Went into AVC and told it the PTT key would be the reverse apostrophe key. The mistake was that apparently the default is to check that box that says the key shouldn't be held if I hold it down. Oops. I didn't uncheck that. Once unchecked, it worked like a champ. I now have MS ATC called up with that button when flying with AI aircraft and AVC discussions on that button when in Squawkbox/VATSIM without any difficult modifications.

Unfortunately I don't think I'll find a way to get Radar Contact on that button as well. The only reason this works is due to the odd case of Microsoft disabling ATC when in multiplayer mode. Without that, both would obviously be triggered.

[Pete Dowson]

Told FSUIPC to map button "1" to the reverse apostrophe key. Went into AVC and told it the PTT key would be the reverse apostrophe key.

Well, of course. Sorry, I thought when you mentioned the support in FSUIPC for AVC/RW PTT you were using the specific control I added for this, which uses no keystrokes at all, it sends the PTT commands direct to the program using Registered Messages. In general that works a lot better than the keyboard method, and works with versions of Roger Wilco that don't pick up the hot key correctly unless it comes from a real keyboard.

Regards,

Pete

[Agrajag]

Yes, you're correct. That's a great feature and so much so that it held me up thinking of my work-around sooner. I kept trying to find a way to have your advanced FS method and also retain the MS ATC call up but that would have taken a LOT more work just to have an elegant solution. I'm not that elegant.