Fsuipc & PSS airbus

[Glaudrung]

Pete,

I've got something weird on my hands and I hope you can give me some hint of a solution.

What happens here is that the busses from PSS start diving towards earth as soon as I activate the autopilot. This happes with all versions of fsuipc higher that 3.20. (3.30 and the 'custom' versions for as2004).

When I replace a version with the 3.20, the problem goes away. When I put the original one back (let's say 3.317 or 3.3) the whole thing starts again. Activating autopilot and hups, a oneway ticket to the solid ground...

Do you have any ideas what could be causing this...?

All suggestions are welcome

Luc 'Glaudrung' Brusselmans

Belgium

[Pete Dowson]

What happens here is that the busses from PSS start diving towards earth as soon as I activate the autopilot. This happes with all versions of fsuipc higher that 3.20. (3.30 and the 'custom' versions for as2004).

When I replace a version with the 3.20, the problem goes away. When I put the original one back (let's say 3.317 or 3.3) the whole thing starts again. Activating autopilot and hups, a oneway ticket to the solid ground...

Do you have any ideas what could be causing this...?

Sorry, no idea at all at present. What operating system are you using? Try adding "PollInterval=50" to the [buttons] section of FSUIPC before loading FS (add [buttons] first if there isn't one). Let me know please.

Regards,

Pete

[Glaudrung]

Hello Pete,

I'm using Windows XP prof. (fully updated including SP 2).

After reading your post, I've tried adding those lines in the ini-file but with no succes.

The strange thing is that it all has started with AS2004 and the 'customised versions of fsuipc.

The last 'working' version was 3.22. After that, the busses became uncontrolable using the AP.

I have tried several flights, with version 3.22 and with later versions, but always with the same result.

With version 3.22 I could use the AP without problems

With later versions, engaging AP caused the plane to dive to mother earth.

always the same weather, the same weight, balance and fuel, the same flightplan with the same V-speeds in the FMC.

I have tried changing the versions and removed the ini-file everytime to ensure a clean break for every version

I sure hope you can come up with a few ideas.

Thanks

Luc 'Glaudrung' Brusselmans

[Pete Dowson]

With version 3.22 I could use the AP without problems

With later versions, engaging AP caused the plane to dive to mother earth.

always the same weather, the same weight, balance and fuel, the same flightplan with the same V-speeds in the FMC.

The changes since 3.22 are all listed in the History document. I've had no other similar reports to yours, and really I've no idea what function in FSUIPC that the PSS airbus could be relying on which is now not performing as they wished.

However, read this item (from the History):

A new option in the Technical page is provided to allow a joystick elevator trim axis to be automatically disconnected when the FS autopilot is enabled in a vertical control mode (ALT or GS).

Have you got this enabled? Have you tried disabling it?

If it isn't this, then I am really going to be completely dependent upon the PSS folks analysing what is happening -- they are the folks that know their code, and it is evidently something they are perhaps relying upon which, for some reason, is no longer true. However, having said that, I would have thought this would be experienced by a lot more folks than just one.

I sure hope you can come up with a few ideas.

Do PSS support say anything? Are their other similar problems reported on the PSS forum?

Is there anything odd showing in the FSUIPC.LOG file?

Regards,

Pete

[Glaudrung]

Well Pete,

I am not that technical so I sure don't know what is or isn't 'odd' in the logfile.

The problem was posted at the pss forum but it seems that I am the only one with it.

The funny thing is that, altough the small busses (319-320-321) are affected, the large ones (330,340) are not. I can switch between fsuipc versions at will, the large planes keep on working while the small ones only work properly when using the 3.22 (or lower) version.

And you are correct, I would have thought it was a problem that I was not alone with. However, nobody seems to have it.

I will keep looking and keep you informed Pete. Maybe, just maybe, we can come up with the right solution

Luc 'Glaudrung' Brusselmans

Belgium

[Chris_CYWG]

I am experiencing the same problem. The FSUIPC that comes with the 320 download (3.2) works fine, the newer versions cause the bus to slam to the ground when engaging the autopilot. I am also using PFC compoenets.

[Glaudrung]

Chris,

Was I glad to read your post. Seems that my problem is not mine alone.

And, just to let you know, you have given me the clue to the answer (not the solution I'm afraid.

When you wrote that you are using PFC components, I got an idea.

I deleted my pfc driver and, believe it or not my A320 was airworthy again.

So that makes sense in the way that PSS disables all flightyokes and their input BUT... if you're using the throttle quadrant... that is connected serial isn't it...? Would that be disconnected too?

And it makes also sense that only a few are experiencing this. You have to use pfc-components AND the A320 AND AS2004 (for use with latest versions at least you have to install fsuipv 3.3 or higher).

Now for Pete...

What is the connection between the pfc-driver and fsuipc? And how does it interfere with the PSS airbus?

I know, I know

Always more questions I'm afraid.

Luc "Glaudrung" Brusselmans

[Pete Dowson]

What is the connection between the pfc-driver and fsuipc?

PFC.DLL uses FSUIPC to interface to FS -- saves having to re-write PFC for each version of FS, I then only have to rewrite FSUIPC.

And how does it interfere with the PSS airbus?

I'm afraid I have no idea. I do not have the aircraft and no one in PSS has contacted me. Maybe it uses the elevator trim for its A/T? Did you see my earlier message in this thread?

Regards,

Pete

[Glaudrung]

Thanks Pete,

(Do you sleep next to this forum...?)

Well, we know now that it has something to do with the difference between fsuipc v3.2 and its connection with the pfc-driver and the fsuipc v3.2+ and that connection with the pfs-driver.

I have changed back to an older version of the pfcdriver but that also doesn't solve the problem.

Using the checkbox in the latest version of fsuipc, as you indeed mentionned earlier on, doesn't do the trick either.

But I guess you are not very far from the truth peter because when I postpone the activation of the autopilot until I reach a 'safe' altitude, I can get the bus back under control by trimming.

I think we can thus safely assume that it is now to the people of pss to take things further.

I will contact them.

Thanks for the assistance Pete

Luc ' Glaudrung' Brusselmans

[Pete Dowson]

Well, we know now that it has something to do with the difference between fsuipc v3.2 and its connection with the pfc-driver and the fsuipc v3.2+ and that connection with the pfs-driver.

I have changed back to an older version of the pfcdriver but that also doesn't solve the problem.

There's been no changes in the PFC driver for some time. I do have a new version in hand, but it isn't ready yet.

Using the checkbox in the latest version of fsuipc, as you indeed mentionned earlier on, doesn't do the trick either.

Was it checked, and you unchecked it, or vice versa?

How do you enable the A/P and A/T -- is this via regular controls on the PFC equipment, or other ways?

What of the option on the main (front page) screen of PFC options -- does the "suppress interference" on or off change anything?

I think we can thus safely assume that it is now to the people of pss to take things further.

I will contact them.

Well, it may well be something related to the new facility in FSUIPC 3.30 to disable trim inputs when elevator inputs are disabled, but it is puzzling that it is the same with that option off.

In the past, PSS have sent me demo versions when there's been any similar questions. Obviously if I had the aircraft here I could probably find the problem very quickly. If you don't get a quick response from them let me know and I'll chase them for something -- I am still snowed under catching up from my week off!

Regards,

Pete

[Glaudrung]

Well,

When I tried the checkbox to disable trimming-inputs, I have tried both checked & unchecked but both settings give me the same result.

AT is enabled by the the throttle itself. When the fmc has been programmed, the V-speeds are stored in the AT and when you put the throttle-control (not with the usual F1-F4) with the Kpd+ AT is automatically selected. Autopilot itself (VNAV & LNAV) are selected with a mouseclick.

I know for sure that PSS disables all joystick inputs by default when activating the AP and I assume that it's the gameport-inputs they are shutting down. PFC-driver works through the serialport however and maybe that is the reason why the checkbox doesn't respond as it should. It's looking for gameport instructions and is, as such, not responding on the instructions that pass through by the serial port.

just my two cents worth of technical insight. (not a lot as far as I know)

thanks anyway for your time and effort you're putting into this.

Luc "Glaudrung" Brusselmans

[Pete Dowson]

AT is enabled by the the throttle itself. When the fmc has been programmed, the V-speeds are stored in the AT and when you put the throttle-control (not with the usual F1-F4) with the Kpd+ AT is automatically selected.

The PFC throttle control? No A/T enable toggle, nothing like that? No "SPD" or other button, all just by, what, moving the PFC throttle levers?

I know for sure that PSS disables all joystick inputs by default when activating the AP and I assume that it's the gameport-inputs they are shutting down. PFC-driver works through the serialport however and maybe that is the reason why the checkbox doesn't respond as it should.

But the PFC driver (a) disables its input when it sees the A/T engaging -- maybe PSS's A/T is invisible, not the FS one?, and (b) as long as you don't move the throttle levers and there is no jitter (best park them), there are no inputs to the FS throttles from the PFC driver.

Regards,

Pete

[Glaudrung]

Pete,

engaging the AT is a two-step proces.

First thing you do is arming the AT. This you do by programming the fmc. The next step is indeed advancing the throttle levers through their pre-set detentes. With other words, you don't move the levers on the throttle quadrant but you press the 'Keypad +' key to advance the levers.

First press moves them to CL-mode, second one to Flex-THr and the third press brings them to the TOGA-mode and this activates the AT.

When handflying the bus, you can use a button to activate the AT but even then, you have to set throttle levers by using the 'keypad +' and the 'keypad -' keys

The actual throttllevers are in my case only used to taxi the bus to the runway. After that, they are indeed parked at the bottom and are never used again until after touchdown and rollout. Then they are used again to taxi to the gate.

Luc 'Glaudrung' Brusselmans

[Pete Dowson]

When handflying the bus, you can use a button to activate the AT but even then, you have to set throttle levers by using the 'keypad +' and the 'keypad -' keys

Is any part of the FS A/P used in any of this process?

The actual throttllevers are in my case only used to taxi the bus to the runway. After that, they are indeed parked at the bottom

Are they calibrated with a reliable dead zone in the idle position so they don't give any input at all (i.e. no jitter)?

It is sounding more and more like I need comment from PSS about what is going on.

A Mr. Blackburn has written to me (I asked him to join this thread) saying that "3.31 seems to kill the PSS Airbus flight Controls in that initial stick input shows them move for a fleeting moment and then return to neutral." which seems rather extreme. I'm still trying to get clarification from him as he seems a little mixed up over the FSUIPC version number. But what's this about, do you know?

Regards,

Pete

[airforce2]

I experienced this diving behavior several times, although I am not sure what precipitated it. It was soon after the FS2004 update for FS9 came out, as I recall. I fixed the problem by creating a new flight in FS using the default B734, and with the engines running I switched to the PSS Scarebus 320. Voila...no more Ju-88 Stuka noseovers. I suspect the problem was some lingering .flt file settings...so far the only known way of resetting them all is to load a default MS airplane.

Regards

[Chris_CYWG]

I don't think this is related to the .flt situation.

This is something to do with fsuipc and the scarebus. I tried every possible thing pss recommended, and then I deleted the airbus, reinstalled it, and got fsuipc 3.2.0. I tried the bus and it flew like a charm, put in v 3.3, slammed to the ground, went back to 3.2 flys like a charm.. somebody doesn't want to play nice :shock:

[airforce2]

I'm not sure that's all of it. I fly the PSS Scarebuses with a full PFC yoke/throttle/rudder combo with no problems. I currently use FSUIPC version 3.317.

Regards

[Glaudrung]

Bob,

Glad to hear from you.

First a question. About which bus are you talking? The later series of A330/340 or the very first one with the A319/320/320.

I have both and the A330 flies like a charm with whatever version of fsuipc. The small busses however are something else. They act normally when I use the fsuipc version 3.20 (installed together with the bus) but when I upgrade to version 3.3 or above, I get a very decent impression of a (very) heavy divebomber. Something to use by some 9/11 terrorist I guess but not something to transport passengers.

But I will try your suggestion. I have tried so many possible solutions in the last 48 hours I lost count but one more or less won't hurt either.

Luc

[Glaudrung]

Pete,

quote

What of the option on the main (front page) screen of PFC options -- does the "suppress interference" on or off change anything?

the suppress interference is always on with me brcause the default throttle has to be connected for the flightyoke to work correctly.

I'm going to try a flight after dinner a let you know my findings.

Luc

[Glaudrung]

Pete,

Your last tip/question was right on the mark. When I unticked the option to suppress interference, the airbus flew like a dream again.

Don't ask me why or what I think could be the reason but I am glad we got around this problem.

I would like to express my gratitude to you and the other posters here for all the effort and time that was put into this 'rather' simple problem.

my best regards

Luc

[Pete Dowson]

Your last tip/question was right on the mark. When I unticked the option to suppress interference, the airbus flew like a dream again.

Okay, in that case I think I've fixed it -- that option should only affect the throttles but through an error it affected the elevator trim axis too, which evidently the PSS airbus uses.

I'm sending you an interim test version of FSUIPC to try. Please let me know if it is okay once you have re-enabled that PFC option.

Regards,

Pete

[Glaudrung]

Pete,

I have just tried the new interim version you sent me of your fsuipc and it's working like a charm. I tried, while I was at it, if it still worked while connected to AS2004. And that worked also.

So I am a happy pilot again.

Thanks again.

I will post the solution to the PSS forum too. Would you mind it if I mailed this interim version to those pilots that have the same problem? Just until a new official version becomes available.

my sincere regards

Luc

[Pete Dowson]

I have just tried the new interim version you sent me of your fsuipc and it's working like a charm. I tried, while I was at it, if it still worked while connected to AS2004. And that worked also.

Good.

I will post the solution to the PSS forum too. Would you mind it if I mailed this interim version to those pilots that have the same problem? Just until a new official version becomes available.

No, that's okay. I just don't want it generally downloadable yet.

Regards,

Pete

[Glaudrung]

Thanks Pete,

for everybody intrested in this interimversion of fsuipc, mail me at

glaudrung@skynet.be

I wil send it as soon as possible (because now I want to FLY first)

Luc

[airforce2]

This makes sense...I confirmed that the PSS A320 A/P is using only elev trim for pitch control. It does not use the FS A/P...it controls the trim directly. It appears that the 330/340 also uses elevator, which would explain why it works when the 320 doesn't.

There's a gent persistently experiencing the opposite problem on the PSS forum...his A/P works, but the joystick axes are dead when he disconnects the A/P for a manual approach. He also gets a full-nose down trim runaway during taxi in after disconnecting the A/P. Sounds like there may be a connection.

Regards