PSS Dash 8 Problem

[Captain J]

Peter,

Just wanted to let you know that my PSS Dash 8 is working finely now as I formatted the whole computer today. I've tried it twice and it is working good now, I love it.

I hope it stays this way though. Thank you for your help, as Thanos said it was first class service! Good luck Thanos and drop me a message on ICQ if you need any help.

Captain J

[Pete Dowson]

Just wanted to let you know that my PSS Dash 8 is working finely now as I formatted the whole computer today. I've tried it twice and it is working good now, I love it.

So there was something funny about the way the computer was set up, before? Hmmm. Strange. Maybe something very specific with timing.

What about the others with similar problems? Have you told them so they can try to resolve it too?

Regards,

Pete

[Thanos68]

Hmmm.... :?

wondering on who the culprit can be here.... Cannot even imagine....Some machines have it and others don't

I am not very enthusiastic on formatting either...

Too much data...too little time....still waiting on something from pss

Oh well...

Regards

Thanos

[Pete Dowson]

wondering on who the culprit can be here.... Cannot even imagine....Some machines have it and others don't

It's likely to either be a bug in FS, or one in the PSS gauge code, but one which is probably either very timing dependent, so a clean tidy new faster install doesn't fail, for example, or which is derived from uninitialised data.

Something as simple as entering a loop with a count of 0 or -1 (decremented) instead of some small positive number could easily produce such an error, and if that count is picked up from the stack or other uninitialised memory then it is just luck what the value was -- though it may well be consistent in a particular set up (because of how things are loading and running with that particular order of installation etc etc.)

If the error can be reproduced on a test machine, one with, for instance, a debugger running on it, then it would be relatively easy to find out what is going on during that 20+ second freeze. But that's the thing -- reproducing it on a machine where you can do that.

Anyway, I do have a copy of the latest PSS Dash 8 here now, and I will see if happens on my PC. If it doesn't then I'm afraid it is still dependent upon PSS tech support only.

The other possibility is that it doesn't fail at all with the forthcoming official Microsoft FS2004 update, but we shall have to wait for that to tell.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

If the error can be reproduced on a test machineAnyway, I do have a copy of the latest PSS Dash 8 here now, and I will see if happens on my PC.

It doesn't get any freezes here I'm afraid. In fact it runs very well, good frame rates.

Regards,

Pete

[Thanos68]

:D SOLVED :D

Well

I got rid of Norton Antivirus and personal firewall (AVG and Sygate personal Firewall now). Among other good effects of that action, I also have my dash 8 working fine !!!!!!!!

I do not know why and how but if you are interested I could create a new log file with fsuipc to compare it with the old "problematic" one.

Of course I had tried in the past to completely stop Norton with FSautostart with no results on the -8 freeze...

Solution came completely out of the blue !

Thanks enormously for your efforts.

Thanos Anogiatis

Athens, Greece

[Henk Hagreis]

:cry:

To Pete and Thanos,

First let me make a compliment of your persistent discussion; very interesting.

I have more or less the same problems with my Dash8 form PSS. When I have not FSUIPC 3.4 it works fine but as soon as I install it then the problems begin. When I start to fly it has very short pauses in the proces (it has "hiccups").

As I read at the end of your discussions I have closed my Norton and my Firewall on my Draytek Vigor 2200 but NO success.

I give you some more information:

- I have not registered FSUIPC 3.4 yet (but I will if you advise).

- I have Windows XP-Prof; SP2; Nvidia 5672 driver and FS2004

- I have also installed A330; there I do NOT have those problems as well in other machines; even not with the PMDG.

- A flightsimmember of my club who has more or less the same machine does NOT have this problem. But we cannot find any significant difference exept that he has a registered version of FSUIPC and a different videochart.

So I still have the big question: Is it FSUIPC or is it the Dash8.

I would very much appreciate if you could pay once more any attention. If you need more information please let me know.

Regards to both of you.

Henk Hagreis

http://www.flyunited.nl (if you are interested; it's there where we use the Dash8)

[Pete Dowson]

I got rid of Norton Antivirus and personal firewall (AVG and Sygate personal Firewall now). Among other good effects of that action, I also have my dash 8 working fine !!!!!!!!

I have NAV so it isn't that, but I dumped Sygate long ago as it used to cause me all sorts of grief. I don't know AVG.

I do not know why and how but if you are interested I could create a new log file with fsuipc to compare it with the old "problematic" one.

No, it really won't be anything to do with FSUIPC. that's a red herring. But you may want to post your findings in the PSS forum.

Good flying now!

Regards,

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

So I still have the big question: Is it FSUIPC or is it the Dash8.

It definitely is not FSUIPC, there is really no involvement of FSUIPC during these "freeze" periods. This has been proven in the various logs and tests we've run. Furthermore, there is no changes in FSUIPC in the small areas of it that the PSS cockpit uses. Really it is almost completely independent of FSUIPC.

If merely changing the FSUIPC version you are using has an effect it will be because there is a problem there which is either due to use of unitialised memory being used as if it is initialised (this is my theory -- which would make it an obscure Dash8 gauge bug), or there's something else in the system which is interacting and in ways which are exctremely time sensitive.

Changing almost anything opering in the FS process could have an effect.

I would strongly suggest that you update FS to the now-released FS9.1 then try again. It may not fix the problem, but it may make it go back into hiding just because of the small memory usage and timing changes that will achieve.

Regards,

Pete

[Henk Hagreis]

Thank you for your early reply. So it not a matter of yes of no registration.

Do I understand that right?

Furthermore, as suggested I will update to FS9.1 and give a message to PSS.

I let you know if something of interest is coming out because I think I'am not the only one with this problem.

By the way; I still do not understand why it is working without problems on the system of my clubmember?

Regards and nice week-end.

Henk

[Pete Dowson]

Thank you for your early reply. So it not a matter of yes of no registration.

Correct, the user registration is certainly irrelevant. The PSS cockpits do all now register their access correctly, and that is all over and done with fiarly quickly after you load the aircraft.

By the way; I still do not understand why it is working without problems on the system of my clubmember?

It is working perfectly here, too. I think it is working well for most folks, and the PSS staff cannot reproduce it either. It is evidently a very context-sensitive bug. Of the two original correspondents here, one fixed it by reinstalling everything (!) and the other, as we've just learned, by disabling some virus and firewall stuff.

If upgrading to FS9.1 doesn't help then if you don't want to try a complete reinstall or any other drastic changes, all that can be done is to try to help PSS support reproduce it on one of their systems.

If it were within the calls it makes to FSUIPC I could certainly add extra logging to diagnose what was happening, but there is really no way I can do this in someone else's code whilst they have control of the machine. I would have hoped that the little information we have already provided to PSS would help them narrow it down, and maybe they can add diagnostics to their own code, but this is really between them and those with the problem to resolve.

Regards,

Pete

[Henk Hagreis]

Pete

Thanks again for your fast response.

I immediately installed the FS9.1 update. Sorry to say but it did not work out positive. So still the same problem.

What remains now is to inform PSS. My English is well enough, I hope to do so. May I in my briefing tell them that we had contact about that matter.

Another suggestion is that you inform them because you both have the software details which I do not have.

I'll wait for contacting them untill I here from you.

Regards again,

Henk

[Pete Dowson]

May I in my briefing tell them that we had contact about that matter.

Yes, but they probably know in any case.

Another suggestion is that you inform them because you both have the software details which I do not have.

I sent them all the details from the logs I got a while back, and also offered to try it here. That is why I now have the aircraft and have tried it, without seeing any problems. All I've succeeded in doing is proving that it isn't FSUIPC and to help narrow down which part of their code it may be in.

I believe the chap I contacted doesn't know the aircraft and was passing it on to someone who did. I've not heard anything further -- I would expect them to deal with this through their support forum from now on, not through me.

Regards,

Pete

[Henk Hagreis]

Pete,

Thanks again although this does not solve my problem which is, as far I can judge, still a combination of FSUIPC and Dash8. Curious is that it appears on some systems and on others not and that makes it not simple to solve it.

I will sent PSS a message anyhow in the hope that the will pay any attention to it. If they do will depent of how many complaints they will receive I think.

For the time being I will not bather you with this problem and stop our discussion. I shall regularly visit this forum to see if there is any progress and if more "flightsimmers" are going to contact you.

If you should be aware of the solution of this problem in the future I would very much appreciate if you should post it, which you certainly will do I assume.

Thanks again and have a nice weekend.

Regards,

Henk

[Henk Hagreis]

Dear Peter,

I have sent my experiences (see Below) to the support department of PSS, reading:

Dear Sir,

I have serious problems running my officially purchased Dash 8 and Airbus 330 in combination with FSUIPC 3.4. I had a system crash and had to reinstall my whole system (see details below). When I download the Airbus and Dash 8, I have to select whether I will install FSUIPC. If I do so, later on I get a message that this version of FSUIPC is not accepted and I have no other choice than installing the latest version FSUIPC 3.4.

When I do so and start with a take-off my A330, everything is allright; no problems. But when I am trying to start a take-off with my Dash 8, than I have short interruptions in the proces (I call it hiccups). When I switch back to other machines a.o the A330 or even the default Boeing 737 (or others) I have the same hiccups untill I close the FS9 and restart the FS9.

I have had extensive discussion with Peter Downson via the the internet after I had found that other users had the same problem. You can see it on:

http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.pc&start=30

I can not come to another conclusion than that the problem is the Dash 8 because the problem does not arise when I fly the A330. Below I give you the details of my PC and the installed software:

Processor: PII 2.4 GHz

System: Windows XP-Prof Uk version including SP@ (with DirectX 9.0c)

Video: Gforce Ti4600

Drivers: Nvidia 5672

Flightsimulator: FS9 including the update FS9.1

Add-Ons: FSUIPS 3.4 (I have also tried FSUIPC 3.3. No difference, teh same problem)

Purchased: A330 and Dash 8

I think that there must be a lot of your clients who already have the or will get the same problem in the future. In this view I would kindly request you to investigate (eventually with Peter Dowson) how it can be solved.

Hope to hear from you soon,

Flightsimclub Fly United

Henk Hagreis

http://www.flyunited.nl

Pete:

Since you told me that you had no problems with the copy of the Dash 8, you received from PSS, I am very much interested to know what kind of a system you have been using. Can you comment on that.

Still hoping that we can solve the problem in mutual cooperation, I remain,

Henk Hagreis

[Thanos68]

Henk hi,

I have to agree with Peter that others are having the -8 running just fine with NAV so it must not be only this.

I will just give you my general sequence of actions I took over the last months. Being sure that fsuipc was not the culprit I contacted PSS support and I was asked to do all the usual tricks of the trade.

Latest mobo drivers

Latest sound drivers

Latest graphic drivers (ATI btw)

Set default flight as per pss forum pinned mail

Try with the nocdcrack and without.

Rebuild fs9.cfg

Rebuild fsuipc.ini

All these actions came to no avail. The freeze was there.

The last two actions I took were getting rid of nav products (was scheduled in any case ) and run a registry clean after all (found some mistakes, nothing on pss, but a couple on old display drivers).

Then I fired up my fs and voila, no problem.

Maybe the combination of actions did the trick.

The problem is that they cannot reproduce it over at pss and I do not really know how much "personal" attention you can get. All their suggestions were towards things that an average simmer could try anyway. I am not blaming them but I think it is down to individual configurations. Another suggestion is to take a piece of paper and write down your pc config and your friend's that is working and compare every aspect.

Tell me how can I be of further assistance.

Good luck

Thanos

[Pete Dowson]

Since you told me that you had no problems with the copy of the Dash 8, you received from PSS, I am very much interested to know what kind of a system you have been using. Can you comment on that.

Processor: P4 3.2 GHz, 1Gb memory

System: Windows XP-Pro including SP1 (not SP2), and, I think, DirectX 9.0c but it might be 9.0b

Video: Matrox Parhelia 256Mb

Flightsim: FS9 including the update FS9.1

Add-ons: Almost everything I think!

Not sure there's anything useful you can get from that, though.

Regards,

Pete

[Henk Hagreis]

Hi Thanos,

Nice that you respond. Also a few remarks from my side.

First place:

What is a pity is that from my story it did not become clear that in my opinion it is not FSUIPC in the first place that causes the trouble but the Dash8 BECAUSE with the A330 I have no trouble whatsoever. Only once I start using the Dash 8 there is the phenomena of the "hiccups" that is taken over by the other aircraft. Remarkable in that aspect is that it disappears when I uninstall FSUIPC or when I switch off FS9 and restart it. So no blame for FSUIPC although it seems to be involved.

Second place:

We have had problems with the Dash8 before e.g. that the HSI and ADI of the Q-version did not work and you had to start up with the non-Q version. So in my opinion it is not stable.

Third:

You could do me a favour to give me the details of your system in order to compare.

Fourth:

I do not understand your remarks to celan the registry. As I described, I just did an entire new installation. Perhaps I do not understand you right.

Fifth:

I still do not know what the effect can be to switch-off my Norton Antivirus as well as my Firewall. May be that the reason is that I am not a computer specialist.

Sixth:

We have compared the system of my collegue with mine. The only difference we can notice is that he has a Gforce FX5600 video chart.

So, that were a few remarks from my side. Hope to hear from you.

Henk

[Pete Dowson]

Remarkable in that aspect is that it disappears when I uninstall FSUIPC or when I switch off FS9 and restart it. So no blame for FSUIPC although it seems to be involved.

Without FSUIPC installed there will be parts of the Dash 8 code not doing anything, or doing something different. It is certainly worth mentioning this to the PSS support folks as it may help narrow the area in which they should be looking. HOWEVER it may simply be the resulting difference in memory -- assuming the problem does derive from uninitialised variables, which it certainly sounds like.

Odd though with the "switch off FS9 and restart it" -- but, again, the memory contents may simply be different.

Regards,

Pete