silver Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Dear Pete i have a problem with PMDG cockpit and my hand-made throttle quadrant with SpdBrk lever. This control is connected with Keyboard emulator and it press 3 switch (SpdBrk off, arm, on). It work good for SpdBrk On and OFF, don't work for ARM. For me it's impossible to set ARM whit Key command. This is possible only with mouse. You have a idea for to set my control? Tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 i have a problem with PMDG cockpit and my hand-made throttle quadrant with SpdBrk lever. This control is connected with Keyboard emulator and it press 3 switch (SpdBrk off, arm, on). It work good for SpdBrk On and OFF, don't work for ARM. For me it's impossible to set ARM whit Key command. This is possible only with mouse. You have a idea for to set my control? Are you testing it whilst on the ground? If so, don't -- try it in the air only. Most of the time in FS2002 and FS2004, arming spoilers on the ground will deploy them 100% in any case. You realise also that when spoilers are used as speed brakes, in the air, they don't deploy 100%? There's a maximum flight detente at about 70% on the 737, I believe. You can only actually get 100% after touchdown. I find it best to program an axis for spoiler control so you have fine use of them as speed brakes. Anyway, back to the PMDG aircraft. Are the keypresses you are using the standard FS ones, or does PMDG do its own? In other words, what are you actually programming? Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted October 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 In the groud is possible to set Arm whit muose (SpdBrk ARM indicator = light green). I have tested to set ARM with key in the FS default assigement menu without result, and i have tested too with FSUIPC Key menu without result. It don't work in Spoiler_increase (decrease), dont work in Spoiler_ARM_set, don't work in Spoiler_arm_toggle. It work ONLY whit mouse. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 In the groud is possible to set Arm whit muose (SpdBrk ARM indicator = light green). Maybe, but that is not a button/key control. Test the keystroke/control only in the air. You'd never arm the spoiler when on the ground in any case as they are triggered by a switch on the undercarriage and during takeoff roll they could deploy accidentally and cause a nasty incident. I think those aircraft which do deploy spoilers on RTO do so without any arming needed -- and, actually, I think the real 737NG deploys them without ariming on touchdown (maybe when reverse is armed, I don't recall offhand) -- perhaps the PMDG cockpit is emulating that correctly? Have you tried simply landing without arming and seeing if the spoilers are correctly deployed? I have tested to set ARM with key in the FS default assigement menu without result, and i have tested too with FSUIPC Key menu without result. It don't work in Spoiler_increase (decrease), dont work in Spoiler_ARM_set, don't work in Spoiler_arm_toggle. Test in the air, as I said. But if this is only with the PMDG aircraft, it is likely they have taken over the operation of the spoiler and perhaps made it operate as in the real aircraft. Have you tried using it as in the real aircraft, to see? Does the PMDG package offer its own spoler controls, perhaps? It work ONLY whit mouse. Why? Because mouse actions operate directly on the gauge which then uses a different input to the simulation engine. It doesn't emulate either keystroke or button controls, which are processed in a different way. Why are you so desperate to arm spoilers on the ground? Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee_davie Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hello, Just some information which will probably fix some confusion in this post. The PMDG aircraft no longer use the FS key stroke to arm the spoiler, they can only be armed through the use of the mouse. It is quite complicated though. If you're in the air and deploy the spoilers from the full down position through use of the / key then they will deploy to the flight detent. To retract them you then must use the Shift / key combo. The same system is used if the spoilers have been armed and you deploy them in flight except that using Shift / will return the spoilers to the armed detent. In esscence the Shift / key combo is now a 'return to previous position' switch. On the ground if you hit the / key the spoilers will deploy fully either from the armed or fully down position. However you need to use the / key on its own to retract them. On the ground the singular / key will act as a return to previous switch. As for a RTO in the 737, the spoilers are left in the fully down position for take off. In the event of a RTO the spoilers will deploy on their own. I'm not sure if PMDG models this though. PMDG doesn't model the spoilers deploying on RTO automatically. In this instance you just need to hit the / key. Hope it helps, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hope it helps, Well, it does help me. Thank you David. Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted October 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Tank's at all and sorry for bad english. In this time it's impossible to set SpdBrk-ARM whit key in PMDG???? With this arcraft is possible to emulate all MCP and EFIS function with keypress and is impossible to set SpdBRk ARM???? This is a big problem for my Throttle quadrant. This is connect whit PC Joy Port and i have all 4 axis locked (Throttle 1, 2, Flap, Rudder). For this reason i have made the SpdBrk lever with 3 position (and 3 switch) connected at handmade Keyboard emulator. PETE DON'T READ THIS PLEASE. What is the software (Sorry Pete) named "Key2Mouse"? This is the last possibility for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 In this time it's impossible to set SpdBrk-ARM whit key in PMDG???? With this arcraft is possible to emulate all MCP and EFIS function with keypress and is impossible to set SpdBRk ARM???? Well, I'm not sure how you are coming to that conclusion from what's been said here. However, I've just switched on my FS PC and loaded up the PMDG 700 (I don't normally use any panels at all), and you are correct in that none of the controls which should arm the spoilers will do so. Worse, it even defeats direct FSUIPC offset writes to arm the spoilers -- I use the PFC Jetliner console with a spoiler lever, and this won't arm them either. I feel sure this must be an oversight by the designers. A bug even. Have you actually tried to get a solution in the PMDG forum at all? I would expect there to be a higher proportion of PMDG flyers there than here. And either way it is certainly worth reporting to PMDG themselves as a probable bug, or certainly a serious omission. What is the software (Sorry Pete) named "Key2Mouse"? This is the last possibility for me. Why sorry? Key2Mouse is by Luciano Napolitano, author also of WidevieW, see http://www.wideview.it/key2mouse.htm. Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted October 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 OK! i go to buy Key2Mouse only for one command. Sigh!!! Tanks Pete you are the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee_davie Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Hello again, Glad I could help. Unfortunatley this is not a bug nor an oversight by PMDG, it is designed that way. I think it was implemented that way, i.e. negating normal key strokes, to add a more predictable response from the spoilers upon landing. Personally I never had any trouble with them before but many others reported that the ground spoilers frequently failed to deploy. In an effort to fix this PMDG rewrote the spoiler controls around the FS ones and this is the result. Unfortunatley this system hacked off a lot of hardware users who found out, as Silver has, that their hardware spoiler control is now useless. I don't have any hardware along these lines and so can't render any further assistance. A far better place to seek out if anyone has had any success solving this problem would be the PMDG Support Forum I wouldn't suggest that you go in there looking for this to be fixed/changed back to the way it was as, quite frankly, it wont happen. When this came about there was a bit of an uproar about it and PMDG's official position on it is that they would investigate different ways of implementing spoiler control. This was eventually forgotten and thus the system remains the same. All the best, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Unfortunatley this is not a bug nor an oversight by PMDG, it is designed that way. Designed to prevent the arming of the spoilers except by mouse? How perverse. Do they not want anyone to arm the spoilers at all, and simply failed to ignore the mouse activation? Personally I never had any trouble with them before but many others reported that the ground spoilers frequently failed to deploy. So you, yourself, don't bother to arm the spoilers, or are happy to use the mouse? A far better place to seek out if anyone has had any success solving this problem would be the PMDG Support Forum Okay, thanks for the help. Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee_davie Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Hi Pete, Designed to prevent the arming of the spoilers except by mouse? Yep, that's the sum of it. How perverse. Do they not want anyone to arm the spoilers at all, and simply failed to ignore the mouse activation? Not sure if that was rhetorical question or not but they say it is more realistic as, in real life, you have to physically check it is in the armed detent. Just as a bit of triva: The double checking came about after the fatal accident of American 1420 in 1999. So you, yourself, don't bother to arm the spoilers, or are happy to use the mouse? Definatly arm the spoilers and using the mouse doesn't bother me at all. I had no problem using the 'old' system, i.e. shift / to arm etc., nor have I had any problems using this new system. I should also clarify, the problems I talked about were not problems with using the system. Som people have had problems with the spoilers deploying on touchdown. I had no such problems is what I meant in my comments. Okay, thanks for the help. Not a problem, Have a good one, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted October 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Tanks Pete, tanks David Ok this is the routine re-writed by PMDG for SpdBrk. But why PMDG don't implement ARM control in their Key Assignement menu? I remember you that this menu provided assignement for ALL mcp, EFIS and CDU control. The FD system (MCP, CDU, ecc) are re-writen routine too. Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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