Setting Reverse Thrust with the new CH TQ?

[Howard]

Hi Peter,

I know this subject has a long history, but I just purchased the CH Throttle Quadrant and was callibrating the TQ in FSUIPC and these are the values for each of the 4 throttles:

Rev -16065, Idle -14518, and Max +16065

Do these values look correct to you, in order to provide reverse thrust, where available? Am I supposed to set 'reverse thrust' anywhere else in order to achieve it?

I have not been successful getting Reverse Thrust to work, and I have also been discussing this with Bob Church, who, you know, authored the wonderful Control Manager software for CH. The values in CM after callibrating are:

Detent 240; Reverse 255; Maximum 0

Bob concurred that these numbers look good.

Thanks a lot,

Howard

[Pete Dowson]

I just purchased the CH Throttle Quadrant and was callibrating the TQ in FSUIPC and these are the values for each of the 4 throttles:

Rev -16065, Idle -14518, and Max +16065

What values are those? The input (IN) values from the device? Is the "idle" value the reading when at the detente on the lever, is it?

Do these values look correct to you, in order to provide reverse thrust, where available?

Ernot direct to FS they wouldn't be, no. Forgetting FSUIPC for the moment, is this new CH device supposed to support reverse thrust on their levers out-of-the-box? Do they say that? If so, and these values are the input values you are seeing in FSUIPC, then they are way out, and you need to sort out the CH drivers and/or their proper calibration in windows, and ensure the FS sensitivity slider is at max and null zone low or zero.

As far as FSUIPC is concerned, however, the IN values don't matter much. Providing they are enough of a range to give you reliable operation then they don't matter. Be sure to calibrate, on the 4-throttles page, a reasonable range for the idle ("centre") both slightly above and slightly below the detente so that any jitter or slight variation (and there's always a little variation -- temperature, humidity, etc) is ignored and you can get a good stable idle.

Am I supposed to set 'reverse thrust' anywhere else in order to achieve it?

No. You have to use the individual throttles though, not the single throttle on FSUIPC's page 1 of 8. If you are only using a single throttle lever you need to map it to 4 throttles on page 1 then calibrate on the 4 throttles page. All that is explained in the FSUIPC User Guide.

If you are using separate throttles for each engine (check the FS Assignments) then you don't use the Page 1 throttle at all.

The values in CM after callibrating are:

Detent 240; Reverse 255; Maximum 0

They are meaningless to me as they go through a heap of processing in Windows and in FS itself before FSUIPC sees them. All FSUIPC is doing is manipulating the results. If those values were to work correctly in FS without FSUIPC, the reverse should arrive as -4096 or so, the idle as 0, and the max as 16384. This is what FSUIPC will calibrate them to. If the quadrant is supposed to work without FSUIPC there's something wrong somewhere between the CH driver/manager and what comes through FS.

Regards,

Pete

[Howard]

This is the new CH Throttle Quadrant with 6 axes, and each has a detent. The area travelled below the detent is for reverse thrust and/or braking.

The idle value (-14518) is the value at the detent as shown in the FSUIPC page with 4 throttles. I did not use the page 1 throttle setting at all.

I will try again tonight and see if I can figure this whole thing out. :wink:

Thanks again,

Howard

[Pete Dowson]

This is the new CH Throttle Quadrant with 6 axes, and each has a detent. The area travelled below the detent is for reverse thrust and/or braking.

I understand that, but what did CH supply to enable you to make use of this directly in FS, without FSUIPC? Surely they don't actually say "to use this you need to buy FSUIPC as well"?

The values you are telling me which are coming through, before FSUIPC manipulates them for you, just won't give you idle at the detente, but a long way above it. Furthermore, the maximum reverse on most aircraft is only a quarter of the full thrust (though it varies somewhat), so the full reverse value would be -4096 or thereabouts. All the negative range below that is wasted lever movement.

FSUIPC can help you sort this out, as it will massage whatever input figures it gets to fit what is needed. I just find it puzzling as to what CH's intent was, here. How do they expect it to work?

Really, for best results, you should first see if you can get it working more or less correctly without using FSUIPC, then just refine the figures and give yourself good reliable full thrust and idle zones via FSUIPC.

Regards,

Pete

[Rudderduck]

The detent on the Ch quad levers does actually have a button function and has to be configured in the buttons page of fsuipc. I'm at work right now and I don't remember the the right phrase to configure with the action, but it's the same as you press F2 on the keyboard. Think it was throttle 1-2 decrease and then the action when you release the lever shold be throttle 1-2 cut. I just got the Ch quad yesterday and used 9 hours on trying to configure the device and I'm not finished yet. I guess you will get a lot of issues with the configuring of this device Pete, so I recommend you to try out the Ch quad device yourself. Cause your superb fsuipc module will be the only way to calibrate it right.

Rune Brauten

[Bob Church]

As far as I can tell it's not really a calibration issue. The Control Manager will let you set it to produce basically any value that a joystick of the same range can normally provide and you can set the values that it will produce at the endpoints and at the detent. It will move linearly between those points. I just couldn't find any provision in Flight Simulator, at least the later versions, that allowed for an axis to control reverse thrust directly. If control of the reverse thrust from a standard external axis was possible the Control Manager would be able to do it, but I never could get the slightest indication that it wanted to reverse without using FSUIPC. I posted an article on what I was doing. It's a zipped WordPad DOC file on the "Files" page at my web site. Look for CMNOTE02.ZIP if you're interested.

- Bob

The StickWorks

http://www.stickworks.com

[Pete Dowson]

The detent on the Ch quad levers does actually have a button function and has to be configured in the buttons page of fsuipc. I guess you will get a lot of issues with the configuring of this device Pete, so I recommend you to try out the Ch quad device yourself. Cause your superb fsuipc module will be the only way to calibrate it right.

I think you have it wrong, at least according to the expert Bob Church. Most of my replies in this thread were before Bob wrote to me and explained things.

Apparently you can either use the CH manager, with or without FSUIPC (it doesn't matter), and use its buttons for the reverse, or you can use FSUIPC to calibrate the reverse zone on the axis itself, ignoring the buttons.

Bob says to try the CH Hangar at http://www.ch-hangar.com. He visits there more often than here.

Regarding your kind advice, I'm afraid I am not really interested in buying any more devices, thank you. I already have enough to populate a Museum of Flight Simulation as it is! :o And I will leave advice about the CH quadrant to the experts. :wink:

Regards,

Pete

[Bob Church]

For anyone that might be interested, I've posted an updated version of CMNote02, the article about setting up reverse thrust with the CH Throttle Quad. The updated version fixes some errors and expands on some areas, particularly the setup in FSUIPC. Look for CMNOTE02.ZIP on the "Files" page on my web site if you want to take a look.

- Bob

The StickWorks

http://www.stickworks.com

[Rudderduck]

Thank you both Bob & Pete for correcting me in the throttle quadrant issue. My simple way of getting the reversethrusts working, actually worked but now they work even better! I've now spent the 2 last nights to read, again and again Bob's articles about the programming. And I've learned a lot! Even the Ch controlmanager is now a piece of cake to me. I've really never bothered to put myself into the controlmanager before except for the calibration of Fs Yoke & Pro Pedals, so the throttle quad gave me some new challenges. Have also visited the ChHangar to pick some hints here and there, and I understand that's the place to go with the Ch issues. Last night I managed to make a map that suits me perfect for flying in the Fs9 with the 3 Ch devices, and all the buttons and axes are programmed with Bob's advanced clipboard exe.

Thank you Pete for the excellent Fsuipc module, and Bob for your files!

Regards

Rune Brauten

[Bob Church]

You're most welcome, Rune! I'm glad they were some help!

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks

http://www.stickworks.com