FSX Multiplayer Aircraft

[RichardL]

Hi Pete,

A question surfaced in the Avsim VoxATC forum regarding FSX multiplayer aircraft and PM Tcas. The question involves VoxAtc generating multiplayer aircraft as AI but PMs inability to display multiplayer aircraft.

The original poster has contacted VoxAtc and I guess Pm.

Are there any options in FSUIPC (TCAS) which could correct this? I have neither FSX, FSX Beta 3, or FSUIPC 4 Beta so I am not able to investigate.

The post is in the Avsim VoxAtc Fourm topic number 657.

Regards,

Richard

[Pete Dowson]

A question surfaced in the Avsim VoxATC forum regarding FSX multiplayer aircraft and PM Tcas. The question involves VoxAtc generating multiplayer aircraft as AI but PMs inability to display multiplayer aircraft.

In FSX? Have you actually managed to get a Multiplayer SDK for FSX? I didn't think one existed.

As far as I knew, folks doing Squawkbox and other on-line links are having to use SimConnect facilities instead, to actually generate controlled AI traffic rather than multiplayer. Do you know differently?

And VoxATC actually CREATES traffic? How does it do that? It surely never did so in FS2004?

Are there any options in FSUIPC (TCAS) which could correct this?

The same options are provided in FSUIPC4 for injecting aircraft into the TCAS data offsets which PM reads. FSUIPC4 is compatible in almost every regard to FSUIPC3, at least as far as I have been able to make it and as far as I have received feedback. I really don't know if anyone has yet tested the AI injection facility though -- I've had no feedback on that at all as yet. If there's a but I will fix it, but I cannot test that at present.

Regards,

Pete

[RichardL]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the reply.

Ok, I jumped the gun a little with the reference to FSX. I guess I've been reading too many FSX posts lately.

Anyway, it appears the issue is with FS9 and the VoxAtc UK version. Apparently VoxAtc UK generates AI aircraft using the multiplayer function. To me, that means it assumes the role as ATC Controller and not FS9. To my understanding, next release is VoxAtc 4.0 (a U.S. version) which will also utilize multiplayer to generate AI.

In past versions of VoxAtc, the software generated ATC and FS9 ATC did not work together; AI could easily overtake you on final or while taxing since FS9 ATC did not know you existed.

How does VoxAtc UK generate AI? I have no idea but I'm being told that is does with the UK version and will also with v 4.0.

I suppose it best to leave it in the hands of VoxAtc and PM providing they are talking to each other.

Regards,

Richard

[Pete Dowson]

Apparently VoxAtc UK generates AI aircraft using the multiplayer function.

Very clever. It must get pretty busy if it generates enough to populate FS like AI traffic. I wonder why it does this. Isn't AI traffic good enough?

To me, that means it assumes the role as ATC Controller and not FS9.

Well, Radar Contact performs ATC instead of FS9, but it interacts with AI traffic. True, it doesn't do a lot of control of AI (it stops them interfering with the user, but otherwise its instructions to them follow what their plan would get them to do in any case). But the advantage of this is that you can use Ultimate Traffic, or My Traffic, or FS Traffic 2005, and have a fully populated AI traffic world. Doing it with Multiplayer horrifies me - the PC you'd need for that must be really top notch!?

How does VoxAtc UK generate AI?

You can't generate AI in FS2004 (well, not via supported interfaces), only multiplayer, as you said. You should be careful not to mix these terms. They are totally different.

I suppose it best to leave it in the hands of VoxAtc and PM providing they are talking to each other.

PM won't talk to any ATC program, nor vice versa. PM provides aircraft instrumentation, it isn't a pilot substitude. ATC interacts with pilots, not instruments.

Regards,

Pete

[RichardL]

Yes, AI traffic is sufficient, it's just that VoxAtc would be controlling my aircraft and FS9 would be controlling AI aircraft. Neither knew what the other was doing. That is why the VoxAtc developer decided to find a way to control AI aircraft.

To my understanding VoxAtc also uses traffic files from Ultimate Traffic, MyTraffic or just default FS. Not sure how this is done or the pc horsepower requirements since I do not have the UK version.

When I wrote about VoxAtc and PM talking to each other I was refering to the two software developers communicating with each other to resolve this issue. Someone else discovered this problem. I was just curious if the fix could something as easy as changing an option in FSUIPC.

As I wrote initially, the problem is PM software not displaying the "multiplayer AI aircraft" as TCAS targets.

Again, thanks for the help.

Regards,

Richard

[Pete Dowson]

Yes, AI traffic is sufficient, it's just that VoxAtc would be controlling my aircraft and FS9 would be controlling AI aircraft. Neither knew what the other was doing. That is why the VoxAtc developer decided to find a way to control AI aircraft.

Yes, but that's not the same as CREATING multiplayer traffic. As far as I know you can't have MP traffic and AI traffic both active at the same time -- in Multiplayer mode the AI traffic facilities are switched off.

In Radar Contact the ATC is coordinated between AI traffic as well as the user quite well, using facilities provided in FSUIPC. But of course Radar Contact is designed to work with AI, not with Multiplayer at all -- really there's no need as MP traffic is generated for on-line ATC, via Squawkbox and Ivap.

When I wrote about VoxAtc and PM talking to each other I was refering to the two software developers communicating with each other to resolve this issue. Someone else discovered this problem.

What problem? So far you have not described any problem. You merely asked about facilities to do with CREATING traffic, and as I said I know nothing about creating traffic. Certainly I can't see there's anything to discuss between VoxATC's author and PM's author. There is no interaction between them, nor is any needed.

Maybe you'd like to start over, and explain EXACTLY what it is that is troubling you, as it is now a complete muddle? You confused FSX and FS2004, and then Multiplayer with AI traffic. Would you like to try again?

As I wrote initially, the problem is PM software not displaying the "multiplayer AI aircraft" as TCAS targets.

... and you do mean Multiplayer, do you? Not AI?? There's a world of difference and they don't mix?

If that is all you mean then it sounds like an error on VoxATC's part, not writing the MP data to FSUIPC so that it can be picked up. It is nothing to do with PM -- it would also not be seen by other TCAS gauges and programs. The VoxATC author only needs to refer to the information in the FSUIPC SDK.

Regards

Pete

[RichardL]

My apologies for asking such foolish questions. I know very little about the internal workings of VoxAtc, PM, FSUIPC, or FS9 AI traffic and multiplayer aircraft. As I stated, I am just asking if the lack of TCAS traffic targets in the PM nav display, when using VoxAtc UK, can be resolved from within FSUIPC. Maybe an option selection. I never said there was anything wrong with FSUIPC.

Apparently the issue is either with VoxAtc or PM. Or maybe there is no way to resolve it.

Thanks you for your help,

Regards,

Richard

[Pete Dowson]

As I stated, I am just asking if the lack of TCAS traffic targets in the PM nav display, when using VoxAtc UK, can be resolved from within FSUIPC. Maybe an option selection. I never said there was anything wrong with FSUIPC.

I never thought you did.

The way of getting MP targets into the TCAS tables in FSUIPC has been available now ever since soon after the TCAS tables were added, for FS2002 I think (?). The documentation in the FSUIPC SDK explains how it is done. Programs like AIBridge and Squawkbox has been doing it for a long time, and they work with MP traffic showing in PM's TCAS.

Apparently the issue is either with VoxAtc or PM. Or maybe there is no way to resolve it.

I don't see why it cannot be fixed by the VoxATC author if he wants to do so. Why don't you report the problem on the VoxATC support site, if there is one? Maybe he is simply not aware of what he needs to do.

Regards,

Pete

[RichardL]

There is a unofficial support forum at Avsim and a beta tester who replies to posts. He is aware of the concerns. I'll also email the author.

Regards,

Richard

[Jackson5]

If I may Jump in here:

I saw that Pete mentioned AIBridge, but I have tried several versions of it and I can't get it to work. All I get is a message stating that "AIBridge has joined the Session" but there is still no Traffic on the PM TCAS.

Indeed I have seen the descriptions about the FS2002/4 A.I. Traffic Data (for TCAS applications and similar) in the SDK manual, but this goes way over my head, and thus is no option for me.

I have also contacted Tegwyn West (VoxATC) and he answered this:

Hello Jaap

The problem you describe applies to all MP traffic (not just that

generated by VoxATC). I'm afraid there is no simple solution for FS2004.

However this is not an issue for the FSX version of VoxATC thanks to

SimConnect.

Further to my last message. As far as I know AVSim and other online ATC works through the MP interface and thus will not be displayed on the TCAS.

Regards

Tegwyn West

It seems we will have to wait for FSX (and in my case, compatibilty for numerous add-on programs with FSX), unless the creators of both VoxATC and FSUIPC are willing to devise a solution........

Best Regards,

Jaap

[Pete Dowson]

If I may Jump in here:

I saw that Pete mentioned AIBridge, but I have tried several versions of it and I can't get it to work. All I get is a message stating that "AIBridge has joined the Session" but there is still no Traffic on the PM TCAS.

Are you using Squawkbox 3, as if so I don't think that needs AIBridge. Otherwise, there were at least two versions of AIBridge -- one for FS2002 and one for FS2004 I think. The MP stuff is different on each. I think the latest was from Jose's own site -- the link on Enrico's "dowson" page should get it.

Indeed I have seen the descriptions about the FS2002/4 A.I. Traffic Data (for TCAS applications and similar) in the SDK manual, but this goes way over my head, and thus is no option for me.

But the SDK is for programmers. Were you thinking of programming it yourself?

I have also contacted Tegwyn West (VoxATC) and he answered this:

Hello Jaap

The problem you describe applies to all MP traffic (not just that

generated by VoxATC). I'm afraid there is no simple solution for FS2004.

Well, either this means he's looked at the facility provided for this in FSUIPC and decided he doesn't want to do it, or he's not really inclined even to look. It certainly isn't complicated at all.

Further to my last message. As far as I know AVSim and other online ATC works through the MP interface and thus will not be displayed on the TCAS.

Again, this indicates he hasn't really looked into the matter. I don't think Avsim is an on-line flying ATC service in any case ;-). Tegwyn is probably a very busy man and is not interested in finding a solution for what is presumably a minority need in any case.

... unless the creators of both VoxATC and FSUIPC are willing to

devise a solution........

It seems you are not even reading the thread properly. The solution has been in FSUIPC for years and has been in use by Squawkbox and other programs for years too, certainly since FS2002 days. The solution is clearly documented. There is nothing else I can do from the FSUIPC side -- I cannot write Tegwyn's code for him! Please make some sense in your thread contributions!

Pete

[Jackson5]

Hello Pete,

I am not using squawkbox or any other add-on that is meant for online flying, because I do not do that at all (not interested yet). I was happy with the VoxATC UK possibility to get interaction with AI aircraft and VoxATC, because without it, it happened quite often that I was cleared by ATC for Runway Line-up , and then suddenly an AI aircraft comes right through me.. That is solved in VoxATC UK multiplayer.

VoxATC uses my addon AI aircraft (MyTraffic2006) but they don't show up on my TCAS in MP. That annoyed me.

I have found several versions of AIBridge (1.0 , 2.0, 2.3 , 3.0)but they are not documented, and maybe I do something wrong, but I cannot get it working.

Programming something like this myself? I wish !! I have the SDK for reference only....

I am sorry for not making sense, that might be a language problem. I'm Dutch, and might have misinterpreted some points.

You are right of course that a solution for the AI traffic is already in FSUIPC, and i think you are right about Tegwyn not having enough time or not looking in to this far enough.

Anyway thanks for your comments.

Best Regards,

Jaap