FS9 - Problem Assigning Throttle Saitek Aviator Joystick

[Stanner]

Need Help!

I purchased the SAITEK AVIATOR joystick which just came out on the market. I have Windows XP and use FS9.

I has TWO THROTTLE LEVERS. For twin engine aircraft, Saitek claims that you can assign one throttle to engine #1, and the other throttle to engine#2. The stick come with no documentation specific to this stick or this point.

I contacted Saitek and they do not respond, and the unofficial web site was of no help.

I found the following:

A. in Settings/Joystick four axis were active:

1. Aileron axis X

2. Elevator axis Y

3. Rudder axis Z rotation

4. Throttle axis Z

The Aviator stick has a twist handle for the rudder.

I changed the assignments to:

1. Aileron axis X (no change)

2. Elecator axis Y (no change)

3. Engine #1 throttle axis Z

4. Engine #2 throttle axis SLIDER

5. Rudder axis Z rotation (no change)

After the above change, the Engine #1 throttle lever on the joystick will operate engine #1, however the Engine #2 throttle lever on the joystick will not operate engine #2. This is the lever that shows as SLIDER on the Settings/Joystick. In the Setiings Sensitivities rather than THROTTLE AXIS, there appears ENGINE #1 THROTTLE AXIS. Nothing apperars for throttle #2.

I have tried using FSUIPC to assign these two levers, so that each one operates a different engine, but have not been successful. Is there any help or suggestions you can give me?

Thank you.

Stanner

[Pete Dowson]

I has TWO THROTTLE LEVERS. For twin engine aircraft, Saitek claims that you can assign one throttle to engine #1, and the other throttle to engine#2.

If they are visible in FS you can assign them there. Shouldn't be a problem.

I found the following:

A. in Settings/Joystick four axis were active:

1. Aileron axis X

2. Elevator axis Y

3. Rudder axis Z rotation

4. Throttle axis Z

So FS cannot see this 2nd throttle lever?

I changed the assignments to:

1. Aileron axis X (no change)

2. Elecator axis Y (no change)

3. Engine #1 throttle axis Z

4. Engine #2 throttle axis SLIDER

5. Rudder axis Z rotation (no change)

Is this "SLIDER" the 2nd throttle? does it actually go by thast name? I've never seen that!

After the above change, the Engine #1 throttle lever on the joystick will operate engine #1, however the Engine #2 throttle lever on the joystick will not operate engine #2. This is the lever that shows as SLIDER on the Settings/Joystick. In the Setiings Sensitivities rather than THROTTLE AXIS, there appears ENGINE #1 THROTTLE AXIS. Nothing apperars for throttle #2.

Strange -- it must be something to do with this axis name "SLIDER"?

I have tried using FSUIPC to assign these two levers, so that each one operates a different engine, but have not been successful. Is there any help or suggestions you can give me?

Not really, sorry. Did you actually try the Axis Assignments tab? If FS cannot see it at all there is really not much chance for FSUIPC, as that uses a more limited Windows interface for its scan -- it recognises a standard 6 axes, XYZRUV. The slider should come up as U or V if your Saitek driver supports the old interface. But if it only supports DirectInput for the extra axes then I'm afraid I've no idea.

Regards

Pete

[Bob Church]

Hi Stanner,

I've never seen FS refer to axes by anything but axis numbers 0..7, really. The names Slider0 and Slider1 come from the device, the calibration screen will show those names but that's Windows just reporting what the device calls itself and has nothing to do with FS itself. As I recall FS does recognize the sliders now as the 7th and 8th axes (Axes 6 and 7 in FS9.cfg, etc). If FS responded properly to the assignment in the FS Controls Assignment dialog, e.g. you moved the axis and FS associated the selected axis function with it as it should, then I would check the FS Sensitvities and Null Zones dialog and see if FS has zeroed the sensitivity. It does that for the 5th axis and FS is very likely to see the 7th and 8th axes in the same manner - an axis with no underlying default function. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find that it zeroed the sensitivity for the 7th and 8th axes as well.

You have to pay attention in the Sensitivities and Null Zones dialog. It only shows three axes at a time as I recall, but there are some scroll bars there to get to the others. The scroll bars aren't very obvious, though.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,

- Bob

The StickWorks

http://www.stickworks.com

[Stanner]

Pete, Bob

Thank you both. The problem was that the FS9 Sensiitivity/Null zone axis was shown for only THREE axis. I had to use the scroll bar at the right to find the axis for Engine #2 throttle. The sensitivity was at only 50%. I set it to 100% and all is fine.

Now what I have to do is to try to calibrate the two throttels in FSUIPC.

I have the registered version 3.7. Using FSUIPC I cannot seem to get the two throttle levers on the joystick, so that at the same postition they both register the same N1 value on the engines.

I shall keep trying. Pete do you have any suggestions?

Thank you.

[Pete Dowson]

Using FSUIPC I cannot seem to get the two throttle levers on the joystick, so that at the same postition they both register the same N1 value on the engines.

That's because the two throttles use separate pots or optical devices which, no matter how similarly you calibrate them, will ever give identical results for identical positions. This is especially true of analogue poentiometers, whether wirewound or carbon or similar types. The best you can do is merely ensure that the idle and max thrust areas match so you can always 'park' them there without looking.

This is not unrealistic. You don't really think that the separate throttle levers on a real aircraft are giving exactly the same N1 or N2 when at exactly the same position do you? In all my cockpit rides (before 9/11 of course) and in all the cockpit videos I've seen the throttles are rarely in a dead alignment. Surely one of the extra realistic parts of your sim now is that you have to adjust them separately (slightly anyway) to give a balanced thrust?

Regards

Pete

[Stanner]

Peter,

Thank you. You are a mountain of knowledge in this hobby of ours.

Warren

[Stanner]

Peter,

As a last resort, I tried to calibrate the stick, and synchronize the two throttles using the Windows XP game controller calibration tabs. Much to my surprise, the both throttles are in perfect synchronization (N1, RPM's etc.).

Regards,

Stanner

[Pete Dowson]

As a last resort, I tried to calibrate the stick, and synchronize the two throttles using the Windows XP game controller calibration tabs. Much to my surprise, the both throttles are in perfect synchronization (N1, RPM's etc.).

You don't mean you never even calibrated them in Windows first? :shock:

FSUIPC and FS both just read what Windows provides, so if you use uncalibrated joysticks I'm surprised you got anywhere close!

Even so, if they remain perfectly alighed they it sounds like they must be digital rather than analogue pots.

Pete

[peterhayes]

HI Pete

As you may remember I only use FSUIPC to assign axes, buttons etc in FS2004 and I always calibrate in WinXP and "fine tune" in FSUIPC. My question is and I've asked many times without success - where does Windows store that calibration info and how does FSUIPC access it? I suspect its somewhere in the registry but I'm asking out of curiosity.

For completeness using FSUIPC 3.7+ latest version I calibrated the "new" SAITEK pro pedals (ie Rudder and Brakes) just using FSUIPC and it worked like a charm there were no issues in any aspect of the setup.

Next year I'll do it all again in FSX.

Thanks for a great program

PeterH

[Pete Dowson]

As you may remember I only use FSUIPC to assign axes, buttons etc in FS2004 and I always calibrate in WinXP and "fine tune" in FSUIPC.

Unless you use the "RAW" option in FSUIPC the Windows calibration is always applied. The Raw option tells Windows to supply the raw uncalibrated inputs from the device.

My question is and I've asked many times without success - where does Windows store that calibration info and how does FSUIPC access it? I suspect its somewhere in the registry but I'm asking out of curiosity.

I have no idea where it is in XP, though certainly it was always in the Registry for Win95/98. I haven't delved underneath the Windows interfaces for a long time (no need), but there are details of Win95/98 in my EPIC95 package still. Here, for example, are some Win98 registry entries (from the REG files in EPIC95.zip):

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\control\MediaProperties\PrivateProperties\Joystick\OEM\EPIC]

"OEMName"="EPIC programmable system"

"OEMCallout"="epic.vxd"

"OEMCalWinCap"="EPIC programmable analog calibration"

"OEMTestwinCap"="EPIC programmable system test"

"OEMData"=hex:03,00,08,00,20,00,00,00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\control\MediaResources\joystick\]

"JoystickUserValues"=hex:00,10,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\

00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,ff,ff,00,00,ff,ff,00,00,ff,ff,00,00,ff,ff,00,\

00,ff,ff,00,00,ff,ff,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\

00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\

00,00,00,00,00,00,00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\control\MediaResources\joystick\\CurrentJoystickSettings]

"Joystick1Configuration"=hex:07,00,88,01,20,00,00,00,07,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,\

01,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,ff,00,00,00,ff,\

00,00,00,ff,00,00,00,ff,00,00,00,ff,00,00,00,ff,00,00,00,80,00,00,00,80,00,\

00,00,00,00,00,00,80,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\

00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,1f,00,00,00,0f,00,00,00,00,00,00,00

"Joystick1OEMName"="EPIC"

"Joystick1OEMCallout"="epic.vxd"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\control\MediaResources\joystick\\JoystickSettings\EPIC]

"Joystick1Configuration"=hex:07,00,88,01,20,00,00,00,07,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,\

01,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,01,00,00,00,ff,00,00,00,ff,\

00,00,00,ff,00,00,00,ff,00,00,00,ff,00,00,00,ff,00,00,00,80,00,00,00,80,00,\

00,00,00,00,00,00,80,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\

00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,3f,00,00,00,0f,00,00,00,00,00,00,00

FSUIPC doesn't access any of this stuff directly. It simply asks Windows for readings from Joystick N via "joyGetPosEx" calls. A flag tells Windows whether RAW or CALIBRATED values are required.

Regards

Pete

[peterhayes]

HI Pete

Many thanks

PeterH