Strange problem

[ilovetofly]

Dear Peter,

I posted this at AVSIM as well, but since 'you're the man', I wanted to see if you could help with this problem I'm having with the CHTQ and FSUIPC.

This has to do with the FSUIPC module. I've set my CH TQ up for the PMDG 737NG6/700 series and now I get some funny actions on the 737's Throttle quadrant. I set the R axis for throttle on #2 engine, but when I move it, the V axis also moves which is assigned to "flaps". If I move the V axis, the #2 engine throttle (which is assigned to the R axis) moves, but the flaps axis doesn't move. I've checked the assignments in FS9 and the axis assignments in FSUIPC, and the throttle for #1 engine and the spoilers axis work just fine.

Also, when trying to assign axis in FSUIPC, when I move the V axis, it shows up as the R axis. On selecting "ignore axis" it won't change when I again move the V axis lever and the V axis won't register at all. After going through some of the other axis letters, but not the V axis, I can't get any changes when clicking on "ignore axis".

In the FSUIPC window, R axis keeps being indicated when I move the V axis and I can't get it to recognize the V axis as the V axis.

I know this sounds confusing, but it is the only way I know how to explain it.

Hope you can help.

P.S. I did try restoring to defaults in the FSUIPC module window but that didn't have any effect.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Jim

a.k.a.

ilovetofly

[Pete Dowson]

I set the R axis for throttle on #2 engine, but when I move it, the V axis also moves which is assigned to "flaps".

You'll need to spell out exactly where you've assigned what. It sounds as if you have the axis assigned in more than one place. Are you using FSUIPC's "Axis assignments" facility, or FS's Assignments, or both? It sounds like you are using both. Not a good idea.

I've checked the assignments in FS9 and the axis assignments in FSUIPC, and the throttle for #1 engine and the spoilers axis work just fine.

It certainly sounds like you are trying to use both. You need to choose one or the other, or else be very very careful not to assign the same axis in both places.

Also, when trying to assign axis in FSUIPC, when I move the V axis, it shows up as the R axis. On selecting "ignore axis" it won't change when I again move the V axis lever and the V axis won't register at all.

In that case what you are calling the "V" axis IS the "R" axis. Why do you think it's "V"? Is that stamped on the lever? What else, other than FSUIPC, uses those XYZRUV names? FS and Game Controllers certainly don't, normally, as they use DirectInput. Only the little "joyview" test program from Thrustmaster uses the old Windows API nomenclature, outside of FSUIPC. If FSUIPC recognises it as R, it is R.

I know this sounds confusing, but it is the only way I know how to explain it.

I think you need to explain how you are identifying that "V" axis as V, when it is clearly R!

Regards

Pete

[ilovetofly]

Thanks for responding Peter and I knew that it would be confusing. I believe the problems really began when I decided to try CH's Control Manager again, a program that I personally just don't understand nor can I ever get it to work properly. It messed up everything with regard to the controllers and cfg files I had made for each specific AC on my system.

I restored my system to a couple of days before installing and trying to use the CHCM program and even though I'm having to reprogram each CFG, things are working properly. That is, when I move the V axis on the TQ (Z rotation in MS FS9) the proper control in the sim moves without causing an unrelated control to move as well.

So I'll continue in this mode and see if I can't get the PMDG working correctly. If not. I'll be calling again.

Thanks again.

Jim

[ronzie]

http://www.stickworks.com/

has great information on setting up the CH Throttle Quad with FSUIPC (with or without the CHCM).

[ilovetofly]

Dear Peter,

OK, I'm at my wits end here. I'll try to re-expalin my problem.

Since you're the guru, as you my well know the CHTQ axes are designated from left to right as X, Y, Z, R, U, V. In MS they are X, Y, Z,

X rotation, Y rotation and Z rotation.

Trying to assign the axes with FSUIPC I get the following: X, Y, Z, V, U, R.

The "R" and "V" do not correspond with the designations as set by CH on the TQ, but are reversed.

OK, I can work with the designations as indicated in FSUIPC except when assigning the "R" axis (which is the far right lever and should be the "V" axis) to the flaps on the PMDG 737, the function is backwards. When the lever on the CHTQ is 'UP', the flaps in the AC throttle window are in the fully DOWN position. Checking the 'REVERSE' box in FSUIPC does not change anything. Moving the CHTQ lever to the DOWN position moves the lever inthe AC into the UP position.

Also, I do not have any assignments made in the sim itself, all assignments are empty.

I don't know where to go from here. As I've mentioned before, I've never been able to get the CHCM working. Maybe someone is willing to create a map for my TQ and Pedals. My yoke is gameport, not USB. I can list what function I want to the axes and the function of the buttons so that it can be programmed since it is all beyond me.

Or I may be looking at a complete reinstall of the entire sim, although other aircraft are not affected. Only the PMDG737NG.

Thanks again,

Jim

[Pete Dowson]

Dear Peter,

OK, I'm at my wits end here. I'll try to re-expalin my problem.

Since you're the guru, as you my well know the CHTQ axes are designated from left to right as X, Y, Z, R, U, V. In MS they are X, Y, Z,

X rotation, Y rotation and Z rotation.

That doesn't sound correct. The "Rudder" (which the 'R' usually stands for) is the Z rotation. The U and V would be the X and Y rotations, though which way around they'd be assigned I've no idea. There are no "rules" about this, you take what you get.

Where do you see the CHTQ axes being classed as X Y Z R U V in any case?

Trying to assign the axes with FSUIPC I get the following: X, Y, Z, V, U, R.

That sounds more like what I would expect.

The "R" and "V" do not correspond with the designations as set by CH on the TQ, but are reversed.

So the TQ does have these letter actually stamped on the levers? Really? How odd.

Why did you decide to use FSUIPC for all the assignments? It's pretty good at doing things you cannot do in FS, but I would have thought that all the things you want can be done pretty easily using FS's own assignments? Are the assignments in FSUIPC's "Axes" tab sending FS controls and then being calibrated in FSUIPC, or are you having them sent direct to FSUIPC's calibration?

I don't seem to have much information about what you are doing, and your report this time seems to bear no realtion at all to the problems you complained about before.

OK, I can work with the designations as indicated in FSUIPC except when assigning the "R" axis (which is the far right lever and should be the "V" axis) to the flaps on the PMDG 737, the function is backwards. When the lever on the CHTQ is 'UP', the flaps in the AC throttle window are in the fully DOWN position. Checking the 'REVERSE' box in FSUIPC does not change anything.

Well, the reverse most certainly does reverse the direction of change. But that's all it does, and you need to do that first. The other axes which often need reversing are the brakes and spoilers.

Or I may be looking at a complete reinstall of the entire sim, although other aircraft are not affected. Only the PMDG737NG.

Er, are you saying that the flap direction is correct on the default 737, but not on the PMDG one? If so there's something mighty strange going on there. I think you need to clarify things please.

Are you calibrating the flaps in FSUIPC with the detentes facilities? Let me see the [Axes] and [Joystick ...] sections form your FSUIPC.INI file, and try FSUIPC Logging -- you can log Axis controls then operate the Flaps lever and see what is happening internally.

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

OK, I'm at my wits end here.

...

When the lever on the CHTQ is 'UP', the flaps in the AC throttle window are in the fully DOWN position. Checking the 'REVERSE' box in FSUIPC does not change anything. Moving the CHTQ lever to the DOWN position moves the lever inthe AC into the UP position.

I've been playing with the REVerse option in FSUIPC's joystick assignments, and I think I can see how it can be confusing and even difficult to deal with, especially when calibrating flap detente positions.

I am experimenting with a different implementation of the FSUIPC "REV" option, where is reverses the INPUT value, so it would be the already-reversed values you calibrate to. I think this may make it easier to understand and deal with.

My only worry with this change is that it may mess up folks current working calibrations, if they are using the REV option in FSUIPC already. It won't affect anything else.

I will releasing a test version of both here (3.712 for FSUIPC3*, 4.064 for FSUIPC4), so please do look out for these in the Announcements above. Maybe these changes will help you with your Flaps problems.

If the changes turn out okay I'll prepare new full user releases, as 3.72 and 4.10, but that will probably be after Christmas.

Regards

Pete

* Version 3.712 is ready now and available in the "Other Downloads ..." Announcement above.

[ilovetofly]

Hi Pete,

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you on this. I still don't know what the problem was, but now everything is working fine. I may have had some conflicts. Flaps, reverse throttles and spoilers work fine. Only thing is that the throttle levers on the CH TQ don't line up along with the levers in the sim window. If my device levers are at the same position, the levers in the sim are at different positions, e.g. one lever is ahead of the other by a 1/2" or more. If I put them in the same position parrallel to each other in the sim, the levers on the controller are about 1/2"-1" out of parrallel.

I calibrated them in FSUIPC and they show the same values, but I think it's just an issue with the controller on this particular AC. Doesn't happen with any other multi-engine plane.

Since I use auto throttle anyway, no great problem.

Thanks again,

Jim

[Pete Dowson]

Only thing is that the throttle levers on the CH TQ don't line up along with the levers in the sim window. If my device levers are at the same position, the levers in the sim are at different positions, e.g. one lever is ahead of the other by a 1/2" or more. If I put them in the same position parrallel to each other in the sim, the levers on the controller are about 1/2"-1" out of parrallel.

You wouldn't normally show the throttles on screen, would you? What matters are the engine gauge readouts. Adjust the levers to get the thrust you want.

Unequal positions on levers are either due to different calibrations, or differences in the "linearality" of the potentiometers used in the device. If they are optical they should line up pretty well with equal calibration. If it presents a problem there is a "throttle sync" facility you can use, but it isn't totally unrealistic to have the levers at slightly different positions for the same thrust values on real aircraft.

but I think it's just an issue with the controller on this particular AC. Doesn't happen with any other multi-engine plane.

Hmm. Strange that it would vary between aircraft, unless you have aircraft-specific calibrations set.

Regards

Pete