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I'm stuck and give up, this is not even fun any more . I'm running PFC--the yoke is plugged into a usb port by itself -the throttle quadrent is plugged into the usb port by itself -so they are not liked together. Now the pfc yokes don't have a hat switch to pan around in spot view, so i got a top gun joystick that i don't use and was just using it for the hatswitch for outside view panning and nothing else .I disabled every thing but the hat switch. Even the axis's Z and Y or what ever it is in assignments in fs9 but it kept coming back and showing up in the assignment control section.Now i started getting major major joystick noise to a point that i could not even fly any more .After 6 hours of playing around cause my rudder was always jammed to the right no matter what i did. And Yes i had fix control acc -the rudder -elevator- ailaron all ticked in FUIPC cause i know your gonna ask me that. For some reason i grabbed the top gun stick- twisted the stick and behold the rudder straightened out so i knew right there that it was the problem and that the joystick was overidding my pfc yoke .So i removed the joystick completely and use the number pad for spot view which is a pain cause pfc don't have hat switches for spot view panning .So now it's a lot better but it's a still spiking and always bobbing up and down and very hard to trim and fly stable and when i look at myself fly in outside you can see the elevator flutter.Now what do i do , cause man i'm not running junk here and just bought a set of Saitek pro pedals cause i wore out my CH ones . Do i remove the pfc .dll and reinstall it ?-is there some thing stuck that i have to clean out or what the heck should i do ?. If you ask me to set and calibrate every thing through FUIPC i might as well tell you that i don't understand your intructions clear enough to try it, i buggered it up so bad once that nothing was working. I'm at a point now to give everthing to my neigbour who works at a computer store and reformat the whole works.It was good and only started doing all this lately. Well i exlained it all pretty i think so i'll wait and see if the pro's can help ha.

Thanks ---Louis --Alberta Canada

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I'm stuck and give up, this is not even fun any more . I'm running PFC--the yoke is plugged into a usb port by itself -the throttle quadrent is plugged into the usb port by itself -so they are not liked together. Now the pfc yokes don't have a hat switch to pan around in spot view, so i got a top gun joystick that i don't use and was just using it for the hatswitch for outside view panning and nothing else .I disabled every thing but the hat switch. Even the axis's Z and Y or what ever it is in assignments in fs9 but it kept coming back and showing up in the assignment control section.Now i started getting major major joystick noise to a point that i could not even fly any more .After 6 hours of playing around cause my rudder was always jammed to the right no matter what i did. And Yes i had fix control acc -the rudder -elevator- ailaron all ticked in FUIPC cause i know your gonna ask me that. For some reason i grabbed the top gun stick- twisted the stick and behold the rudder straightened out so i knew right there that it was the problem and that the joystick was overidding my pfc yoke .So i removed the joystick completely and use the number pad for spot view which is a pain cause pfc don't have hat switches for spot view panning .So now it's a lot better but it's a still spiking and always bobbing up and down and very hard to trim and fly stable and when i look at myself fly in outside you can see the elevator flutter.Now what do i do , cause man i'm not running junk here and just bought a set of Saitek pro pedals cause i wore out my CH ones . Do i remove the pfc .dll and reinstall it ?-is there some thing stuck that i have to clean out or what the heck should i do ?. If you ask me to set and calibrate every thing through FUIPC i might as well tell you that i don't understand your intructions clear enough to try it, i buggered it up so bad once that nothing was working. I'm at a point now to give everthing to my neigbour who works at a computer store and reformat the whole works.It was good and only started doing all this lately. Well i exlained it all pretty i think so i'll wait and see if the pro's can help ha.

Thanks ---Louis --Alberta Canada

:roll: !!!?

If you would please consider using separate paragraphs so it is readable, and make separate points, explained separately, it might help understand what you are complaining about.

You certainly seem to be mixing up lots of things -- my PFC support doesn't include the USB-connected yoke, for instance. PFC.DLL only deals with PFC devices with the digital control electronics, so probably your Throttle Quadrant is via PFC.DLL, but certainly not your PFC yoke if it is connected directly to USB. That is more like a normal joystick and is dealt with via Game Controllers and FS assignments.

It seems like most of your problems are down to not having calibrated the yoke in the correct place? If there's no yoke nor rudder plugged into the PFC throttle quadrant, do NOT enable the flight controls in PFC.DLL. I've no idea what rudder you are using though, except that, as you say, you have two assigned at the same time -- a sure recipe for trouble unless one of them is kept totally silent (jitter free).

On the other point which I can vaguely make out from what you say, if you don't understand FSUIPC, then why did you try using it in the first place? It isn't the place to start getting your kit to work! Please consider setting up your normal joysticks and yoke using Windows Game Controllers, and Flight Simulator itself. After all, Windows and FS between them are actually supposed to support these things directly. FSUIPC is not a necessity, far from it.

FSUIPC won't fix things which are wrong in the first place. Please get your kit working using the standard methods, following their documentation, then, possibly, consider using FSUIPC to refine the settings and making more flexible use of them. Never start the other way around -- if things plain don't work in the first place, FSUIPC cannot fix them.

Regards

Pete

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Sorry there Pete,almost every time a read a post they don't have enough info so i tried to explain it all and made a mess . But to condense it all is that i have joy stick noise where the elevator is constantly fluttering and the aircraft is almost unflyable. I was hoping that FSUIPC could solve it but looks like it can't .So i'll keep digging.I've calibrated it many many times and still has joy stick noise. Louis

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... to condense it all is that i have joy stick noise where the elevator is constantly fluttering and the aircraft is almost unflyable.

Then either

(1) there are two controls for the elevator, conflicting with each other (for instance, make sure there's only one assigned in FS, and also make sure that the flight controls are disabled (not checked) in the Flight Controls tab of PFC.DLL, or

(2) there is a fault with the elevator axis on the yoke, in which case it needs repairing. Does it flutter in the Game Controllers test or calibrations screens? If not, then something is interfering with it.

I was hoping that FSUIPC could solve it but looks like it can't.

Minor jitters can sometimes be eliminated by FSUIPC's filter facilities, but not a real flutter, and certainly not if the cause is actually down to two separate inputs competing to control the elevator.

I've calibrated it many many times and still has joy stick noise. Louis

No amount of calibration cures flutter -- it's going to be a hardware problem or conflicting inputs.

Try you other joystick as elevator, disconnecting the problem one. If that gives no flutter, connect the original one but deassign it. Does the other give fltter now? Then re-enable the one you normally use and disable the otherand so on. By a process of elimination you should be able to determine whether it is faulty hardware or conflicting inputs.

Also be aware that not all USB ports are the same. First of all the ones on the PC are in pairs. Check whether the other of the same pair is connected to something which might interfere. Try swapping that out to another USB port. Second, if you are using a USB extension cable, maybe the voltage drop over it is too much for the device. Try a shorter one or a better quality one. If you are using a hub, make sure it is a powered hub.

Regards

Pete

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Umm interesting about the usb ports. I'm on the road now but when i get home i'll give it a go and see what happens. You know i think it is fluttering in the calibration screen now that you mentioned it. Thanks Pete ---Louis

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I agree that it is very difficult to give support or solutions without accurate user information. Still, I find myself in a position where I can sympathize with the comment in the original message: "... this is not even fun any more".

I am a newcomer to the world of flight simulators, but have some practical flying experience (gliders) and a fair understanding of computers from which I made my living for the last 25 years. The problem I see it is that us newcomers have the audacity to expect that Microsoft programs to work. The less we had used Ms programs the more we think that should be so. After some exposure to programming in general and MS attitude in particular, one learns to be a little more pessimistic. I do not want to start a complaint list but the fact is that FSX is full with bugs. It was always a basic assumption that there is no software without some bugs, but this game division is certainly can't claim to be on the leading edge. So, for the average user to understand and accept this fact may be frustrating. It does not help much that many "expert" in Flight Simulators accepts the failure of these programs as something unavoidable. That is part of the reason why FS after 20 some years of development is still under works. (I have the feeling that the SP development start before the product is sold. According to Mr. Murphy: "There is never time to do it right, but there is always time to rework!") I am sure that you are not only happy to learn if any problem is found with you FUSIPC but probably even appreciate it. I know I always did. It is a form of final verification, a "must" that nobody likes to do, much less seems to find the time for it.

With all this preamble I would like to place the blame at MS's door. (They have a backlog of blame there, and appear to shoulder it all with no feelings of guilt at all.) I will mention only one bug, to illustrate my point. In the case of the Saitek (X52) controller, the elevator movement of the Cessna does not match the travel of the physical joystick's X axis range. At about 66% of travel of the joystick the elevator surface is fully in its UP or DOWN position. For the remaining 33% (or so, I did not read out the USB values for it) it is simply a Deadzone. So you may try to pull up and nothing happens, then when you hit the "live"-zone thing do happen. And in a hurry, since as you say in your FSUPIC documentation: ".. since FS2000, FS applied to a time-change formula to the axis..". Unfortunately this behavior is the same even if the STICK_SENSITIVITY_MODE = 0. I personally find it even more erratic, I never know when I leave the active section and enter the Deadzone. Saitek actually has a Deadzone setting not only at the centerpoint but also at the ends of the travel, but again this won't help anything. They also plan to add full sensitivity, range, and "response slope" curves to their controller. But, all this can always be ignored by the application itself. Unfortunately there are no "lemon laws" for software. Until they have some we shall not hope for improvements.

I have purchased your FSUIPC (v. 4.08) together with the (WideFS). I do agree with some comments that this is too much. (I.e. too much to learn, we all seem to have a zeal for instant gratification.) On the other hand I think most user does not plan to be a beta tester and.or guinea pig for MS. (I use to work for a company that paid you if you found a bug in their software. You should have seen the thorough testing everyone was giving to the other guys' code!) Prior to activating it I was very pleased to see that it appeared to be the answer for most of my problems. In particular the capability to set calibration for individual planes (or maybe types, propeller, jet, etc.). I am still studying the manual but there are a few basic points I would like you to clarify.

1) Is it mandatory that any time an axis is brought under FSUIPC control that that axis assignment is deactivated (deleted) in FSX?

2) At what point is it recommended to bring ALL axis control under FSUIPC control? This appears to be a simpler approach. One click to uncheck the Use Joystick option in FSX?

3) Sorry that I can not remember the actual forum posting, but it was mentioned somewhere the "the FSUIPC methods can not correct flawed hardware". I think this would mean "fatally flawed". I.e. if a control has no output there is nothing it could do. But in general, the whole purpose (of the calibratrion features in FSUIPC) is indeed to correct some unsatisfactory, or mis-behavior.

4) Some of the Rotary controls on my Saitek X52 has a "noisy" USB output, and at this time Saitek has no "sensitivity" adjustments. I am still hoping that the FSUIPC "deglitch" option may be able to fix or at least minimize that flaw. Of course within reason, but still I should be worth a try!?

5) And finally as far as the FSX software handling of the (raw, FSUIPC adjusted, etc.) as related to the Cessna elevator behavior described above. If MS decides that they will handle only values 0 - 34000 Of a 64k value range, are there any remedies? Or possibly disabling ALL Joystick controls in FSX would solve that problem? You obviously spent a good amount of time (probably more than you originally envisioned) with this subject. If I could make use of your experience I could find more time to fly, and enjoy the game. Are professional plane modules solve most of these problems? Is it worth to look into buying a custom 737 rather than using the built-in FSX one? (In some of the "virtual cockpits" some control work, others not. Sometimes you can lower a flap, but you cannot raise it with mouse control. The original user is right, it is at times frustrating.)

Thank you for your time!

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I do not want to start a complaint list but the fact is that FSX is full with bugs.

Yes, there is a general consensus that it was released far too early. Hence MS's unusual step of actually promising and working on a bug and performance fix update so soon.

That is part of the reason why FS after 20 some years of development is still under works.

Oh, I don't think that is right. It is under continuous development simply becasue (a) it sells well, despite all the problems, and (b) there is always something better which can be done as hardware performance and capabilities improve. You only have to view the different versions over the last 20+ years to see that.

In the case of the Saitek (X52) controller, the elevator movement of the Cessna does not match the travel of the physical joystick's X axis range. At about 66% of travel of the joystick the elevator surface is fully in its UP or DOWN position. For the remaining 33% (or so, I did not read out the USB values for it) it is simply a Deadzone.

I really don't think this will specifically be FSX. The calibration and axis system used in FS hasn't changed since FS2000 days, when they switched to direct input. If the "dead zone" is not truly dead (and you can surely check that in Windows Game Controllers) -- in other words it is actually giving changing values -- then FS (including FSX) will respond to those changing values provided the dead zone setting in FS is set minimum and the sensitivity is set maximum.

There is a tendency for FS (FS9 and FSX, and probably earlier too) for the sensitivity to be set far too low and the dead zone possibly too high in FS's settings. Always check those.

1) Is it mandatory that any time an axis is brought under FSUIPC control that that axis assignment is deactivated (deleted) in FSX?

If you are assigning axes in FSUIPC (as opposed to only calibrating FS's assigned controls), then, yes unless you want the axis to do two things -- whatever FS is told to do and whatever you tell FSUIPC to do. The same applied to joystick buttons.

FSUIPC cannot stop FS reading the joysticks itself. Only you can do that by de-assigning axes and buttons or disabling the joystick altogether.

2) At what point is it recommended to bring ALL axis control under FSUIPC control? This appears to be a simpler approach. One click to uncheck the Use Joystick option in FSX?

I can't really say. Yes, you could do it all via FSUIPC and disable joysticks in FS. That does actuially save having to worry about FS suddenly auto-reassigning axes just because it thinks they are new. The joystick enable/disable doesn't get changed automatically.

However, you'd really need to have sufficient reasons for wanting to do it all via FSUIPC in the first place. Different real axes for different aircraft is the main application, the only real thing that can be done with FSUIPC which cannot with FS directly (except possibly in FSX, where you can save and reload different configurations -- but I've not checked if those change joystick assignments too. Might be worth a look?).

The axis assignments facilities in FSUIPC are a very recent thing. For its first 6 years the Joystick Calibration facilities were well used, and no one really missed being able to actually assign them in FSUIPC. It was really explicitly for the business of supporting, say, a helicopter control set and a prop/jet control set on the same PC, automatically switching according to the loaded aircraft, which was the spur to the facilities being added.

3) Sorry that I can not remember the actual forum posting, but it was mentioned somewhere the "the FSUIPC methods can not correct flawed hardware". I think this would mean "fatally flawed". I.e. if a control has no output there is nothing it could do. But in general, the whole purpose (of the calibratrion features in FSUIPC) is indeed to correct some unsatisfactory, or mis-behavior.

In that case I would extend "fatally" to include a hardware input which is either constantly jittery or which has inconsistent areas in its range of movement -- either due to faults (e.g. dirt in the pot or dry joints.bad wiring) or interference.

Additionally, as far as all my testing and understanding of FS's axis treatment is concerned, I believe that, if the axis values are genuinely changing, and the Windows calibration is good, and the dead zone and sensitivity parameters are set correctly in FS, that the resulting internal control values for the assigned axes must also be changing.

4) Some of the Rotary controls on my Saitek X52 has a "noisy" USB output, and at this time Saitek has no "sensitivity" adjustments. I am still hoping that the FSUIPC "deglitch" option may be able to fix or at least minimize that flaw. Of course within reason, but still I should be worth a try!?

Possibly, but it would be far better to fix the reason for the noise -- switch cleaner or something, maybe? FS's sensitivity of course isn't related to noise, the latter will be dirt or interference or faults. FSUIPC's filtering is very simple and not extensive. There are some really good filtering algoirithms I could apply, but these depend on building a history of inputs and using this to spot inconsistencies and nullify them. The end result, when done linearly, as necessitated in such a program, is less responsiveness in the controls. The better/stronger the filter, the worse the responsiveness. Believe me, I experimented a lot before including the facility as it is, and you wouldn't like the really smooth results at all.

5) And finally as far as the FSX software handling of the (raw, FSUIPC adjusted, etc.) as related to the Cessna elevator behavior described above. If MS decides that they will handle only values 0 - 34000 Of a 64k value range, are there any remedies?

I really don't think that there any such decision made. The calibration of axes is done in Windows before FS ever sees the values. The calibration in Windows is designed to assure a specific range. This is then simply mapped onto the range accepted in FS for the specific control type, typically -16k to +16k for a centering control and 0 to +16k for things like the throttle, spoilers, brakes and so on. The modification to the accepted range which you might observe is caused by applying a dead zone and a sensitivity, both adjustable with sliders in FS. For full range you always need the sensitivity sliders set to max (full right) and the dead zone set to zero (full left).

Are professional plane modules solve most of these problems? Is it worth to look into buying a custom 737 rather than using the built-in FSX one?

I'm actually quite surprised how good the FSX 737-800 is, considering the 737's in all previous versions of FS were pretty dire. However, its overhead functions are very poor and unrealistic, its engine start-up and shut-down procedures are woefully wrong, and, possibly, yes, its response to controls is still not as good as it should be. In FS2004 I don't think you could beat the PMDG 737s, and I have actually installed the PMDG models and CFG files into fSX --- I don't use any FS panels in any case, being a 100% Project Magenta user.

Regards

Pete

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  • 1 month later...

Thank you for your detailed reply. I've spent a considerable amount of time investigating the FSX simulator behavior in more depth. Because I do not have enough information, and it would take a lifetime to set up testbeds and really troubleshot this nightmare, my conclusion, whatever its worth, is that the basic flaw is in the FSX hardware requirements.

As you well know the published system requirement are woefully inadequate: XP SP2 - 256MB RAM, CPU 1Ghz, video card: DirectX 9 compliant 32MB Ram.

While my system is not a gamer's dream, it is certainly better than that:

XP SP2 - 2GB RAM, AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ (2.2Ghz), nVidia 7600 512MB Ram. I believe that the reason MS does not publish true requirements because the simple fact is that for most buyers FSX is not usable. In my overview of the reviews: 75% of the customers are whining, and quite a few are swearing. I am in the latter camp, and working for 25 years in software development I do not appreciate the "misrepresentations" by MS. I agree that the simulator has potentials and as you've said it sells well, but that is only because the slick salesmanship and not on its merits. To finish my tirade, I just want to say that I got this FSX as a present, but since then I purchased FS9 for comparison purposes for $19, and I really believe that may be the last money MS will get from me!

My problems are not related to "joystick noise". The reason one can not fly half the planes is because of the ridiculously low FPS rates. When one pilots a Cessna in the back country, (preferably a desert with no other objects but plain sand), one can achieve with my hardware about 20 FPS. But when you get to any airport with buildings, vehicles, etc. it shall be reduced to the range of 2-3FPS and below! (The "below" can not be quantified because FSX does not even have enough the time to compute and display the FPS. But one can see that at times the screen changes only in 2-3 seconds. This happens even when you just sit on the ground, and use the external spot view to pan around the airport. A slide projector would work better than this "pinnacle of 25 years of development"! Of course one can always blame the hardware, but if you lied about what the requirements are then as far as I am concerned, one has no credibility.

So what in fact happens, the visual feedback, (that is the only source of information, since we do not have any gravity, or G force feedbacks), is so far from reality that one is managing the controls totally out of sync. To make it more frustrating, since as I said the FPS is constantly changing, one starts to acquire all kind of bad habits. React to soon here, wait at other scenes, etc. MS simply chew off too much, they can not deliver the goods. I think this happens to all cats, when they get fat and lazy.

The FS9 version works out of the box, without too much fooling around with the controls. Of course it has none of the new features: improved land classes, textures, running airport vehicles, etc. One can dumb down FSX also to the level when it start to work, but most likely at that point it will be even less feature rich than FS9 was. That is my story and I am sticking to it!

On the other hand your FSUIPC4 does solve some of the problems and I had successfully calibrate some of the control (particularly the elevator) that is simply impossible to do in FSX. Still if you consider it that the only reason I had to purchase it to fix FSX's inadequate calibrations, it is somewhat pricey. Not from you, I realize you do not sell millions of your software, but as a patch for FSX!

So when you write that you do not think FS is still under development, that is what I mean. Yes, I see that hundreds of developers offer add-ons for FS and they are working on fixes. But I still read problems concerning FS9 and I do not believe that MS will ever go back and fix those bugs!

Obviously you are using FSX since you have released the new version of your FSUIPC for it. Could I ask you what hardware are you using? I have read from people who use nVidia 8800GTX in SLi configuration and still can not sustain 30FPS with full FSX settings!

Another question: you have mentioned that you are using Project Magenta. The FSX virtual cockpit gauges at times are simply not readable. I have a 22in flat panel, and certainly do not want to buy anything bigger. But I have a smaller (19") LCD that I possibly could use. Is a networked configuration improves somewhat this terrible execution times of FSX? (Or does it make it even worse?)

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While my system is not a gamer's dream, it is certainly better than that:

XP SP2 - 2GB RAM, AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ (2.2Ghz), nVidia 7600 512MB Ram.

That sounds pretty good, and easily adequate for FSX provided you adjust the sliders to suit. I am developing and test on a older Pentium 3.2Gb with only 1Gb RAM, but I also have FSX installed on a n Intel 2.0Gb Core2 Notebook, an AMD FX-60, an AMD FX-53 and an Intel X6800 (my main flying one). This with a variety of video cards ranging from nVidia 7950 at the top end down to the 6800 (I think that's my oldest, no sure offhand).

When one pilots a Cessna in the back country, (preferably a desert with no other objects but plain sand), one can achieve with my hardware about 20 FPS.

Hmm. Something wrong there. I get 25 fps on my Notebook at country airfields with plenty of rolling hills and even autogen set for lots of trees.

quote]But when you get to any airport with buildings, vehicles, etc. it shall be reduced to the range of 2-3FPS and below!

There's definitely something wrong then. I have heard of a few others with such problems, but I really don't know what causes them.

Certainly, out-of-the-box, with no addons and no special tweaking, FSX should be flyable. It tries to assess the PC it is installed on and sets the assorted sliders and so forth accordingly. I don't think it always does a good job -- that, I understand, is being addressed in the soon-to-be-released update (SP1).

The main effects which seem to me to be really costly in terms of performance are (in order) Autogen, AI, Shadows, and Bloom. Start with all of those off competely, then adjust the other sliders to get best performance for reasonably looks. Then re-introduce the autogen and AI a little at a time. See what settings you can get and remain with frame rates in double figures.

The SP1 update is getting so near now that it might just be better to wait for that before doing too much experimentation, as it is bound to change some of thoese things, hopefully all for the better.

Another question: you have mentioned that you are using Project Magenta. The FSX virtual cockpit gauges at times are simply not readable.

Really? I've never really used VC, prefering the 2D panels in any case on those PCs on which I don't use Project Magenta.

I have a 22in flat panel, and certainly do not want to buy anything bigger. But I have a smaller (19") LCD that I possibly could use.

Your nVidia card should be able to support two displays. Select the 2D panel, undock it and drag it over to the smaller display.

Is a networked configuration improves somewhat this terrible execution times of FSX? (Or does it make it even worse?)

Makes no difference unless you are running other processes at the time time on the FSX PC which you can move across to the other PC. Then it may improve things (especially on single processor systems, less so on Core 2).

But if your frame rates are truly as you say, and you have the various settings turned down (certainly the critical ones like autogen and AI), then I think there must be something else that isn't right on your machine. Maybe some conflicts with installed programs or background processes, or the video driver not providing enough acceleration.

Regards

Pete

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You have certainly put your finger on the right spot. I have to admit that I am pushing FSX to its limits, setting all options to full and back up only if I must. To me realistic simulation is the most important thing. Obviously this means different things for different folks, but to me the criteria is whether I can fool myself into thinking that I am actually sitting and flying a plane. Since I know what as a passenger on an airplane I see, I have a clear idea what it should look like. I will be the first to admit that of course there are limitations by both hardware and software so we have to compromise. But by all accounts FSX has more potentials than its previous versions and I want to use as much of them as I can. It is really not that unreasonable to expect this. It is no accident that ALL of the Microsoft demos I've ever seen are displays of screenshots with maximum effects. They also know how it should look like!

Being a novice to Flight Simulators in general, I was using the information for FSX configuration from the

http://ops.precisionmanuals.com/wiki/FSX_FPS_Guide site

For Autogen tweaking of FSX they recommend:

Add the following lines to end of the [TERRAIN] section of the .cfg

TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL=4500

TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_BUILDINGS_PER_CELL=3000

but other sources recommend that the values for these properties set to minimum (5-10, since apparently zero or null could cause some problems as well?!)

They also mention though that Autogen has an large effect of FPS.

default.xml

This is the other important autogen tweak and many will probably remember this one from FS9’s early days:

Go to FSX/Autogen and rename the file default.xml to default.bak

This turns off the “custom” autogen buildings such as gas stations, fast food restaurants with big chickens out in front etc. MS supposedly fixed the FPS loss from this in the FS2004 9.1 patch, but it appears that the problem may be back in FSX. Disabling this file makes the world look a little less realistic in high density city areas, but I think the tradeoff for increased FPS is well worth it.

Still in their recommendations they set the Autogen to DENSE (about 60%).

But your diagnosis was very accurate. Yes my FPS rates are truly as bad as I am complaining about. (You can trust me on this, I know exactly how hard to get reliable information and feedback from users, so I try to be good about it.) Reducing the Autogen settings from DENSE to nothing result in a 3-4 fold increase of my FSP. That is from 3.4 I move up to 12-14 range. The whole experience is different, the visual feedback as you fly the plane is much improved. Of course I do not know what I lose, since I find no specific information in FSX concerning what particular object are "autogenerated". One pick up clues here and there (trees, "Kentucky Fried Chicken" restaurant signs, (why would have to be that autogenerated!?), but I find no unambiguous list of the objects that I will not see. My gut feeling is that I am still a lot more concerned about the basic functionality of the program, than some bells and whistles. I do not hope for a photo quality land background, but the fact the the largest river in Europe the Danube is a set of disconnected lakes at times I find inexcusable.

I use only your FSUIPC4 add-on and no custom AI modules at all. While I was looking into it, according to most accounts it also may result in further FPS loss. Are there any native settings to FSX you suggested for configuring within the simulator? Does FSX has any AI features?

Thanks you very much for pointing me in the right direction. As you suggested, now I sit back and wait for SP1 that hopefully will have fixes instead of a new set of bugs.

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You have certainly put your finger on the right spot. I have to admit that I am pushing FSX to its limits, setting all options to full and back up only if I must. To me realistic simulation is the most important thing.

Yes, but all versions of FS have been made for hardware not actually available at the time of its release. With FS9 you couldn't put all sliders to full on the hardware available in July 2004 -- only in the last year or so has that been reasonably possible with all the advanced add-ons too. And it was the same for FS2002 and FS2000 etc, going all the way back.

FSX is designed to be usable now with compromises, and to the full later -- it has at least a three year life to endure. It is not like many 'games' which you play for a month then discard for the next.

Does FSX has any AI features?

All the traffic features -- Airline, GA, airport traffic, boats and ferries are the "AI" traffic. There are sliders for them on the traffic tab in the settings.

Regards

Pete

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