4.217 and wind smoothing

[jannier]

Hi Pete

As requested.....

One important thing to note: you do need FSX SP2 or Acceleration installed for good results. If you don't have this installed the smoothing still works, in a way, but you will get the airspeed jumping up and down very annoyingly during wind changes

Pete I was at a friend today and he has the paid version of fsuipc4 and we took a look at the above mentioned.

I am replying on his behalf as he is on a business trip.

He has SP2 installed and we saw the airspeed jumping all the time when there was wind changes.

He was using your latest beta build 4.217 and I observerd while he was flying with IVAO online with the Wilco 737-400 and there A320 all Feelthere products that the speedtape was jumping, and made all the relevant stuff like engines trying to compensate.

Also the red overspeed warning bottum right of the screen was flashing when the speed tape jumped and 1 could hear the overspeed clacker doing a clicking noise everytime.

This happend I could gather when there was a change in wind or when new weather was fed to the simulator.

But the smoothing did seem to work and when there was no wind changes for a while the jumping speedtape would stop.

Don't know if anybody else has observed this.

Regards

Jannie

[Pete Dowson]

He was using your latest beta build 4.217 and I observerd while he was flying with IVAO online with the Wilco 737-400 and there A320 all Feelthere products that the speedtape was jumping, and made all the relevant stuff like engines trying to compensate.

At the time this was happening were there additional wind or cloud settings like turbulence, variability or gusts? Without knowing what was supposed to be set I can't really do much with such a report.

It is possible that the simulation I've added for these phenomena is not quite right, but I cannot really adjust them without knowing what is happening. If you cannot use WeatherSet2 or similar to check the wind and cloud at the aircraft altitude, and see if these things are set, then the next best thing would be to save a flight so I can check, as suggested in my previous message in this thread.

Regards

Pete

[jannier]

Hi Pete

Files send.

Regards

Jannie

[Pete Dowson]

Files send.

Got them. In your email you said:

As requested, there is turbulence, turn on the red overlay display in FSX and then look at the wind direction and speed, when wind smoothing is on, it goes wild.

I'm not surprised. You have the aircraft on the ground and the surface level wind (up to 2995 feet) is set for Turbulence at level 2 (moderate) AND on top of that a directional variability of 60 degrees! How do you think it should behave? Are you sure it is excessive?

I might be looking at tuning it further, but you seem to think you should get no effects whatsoever.

Should the effects be half as much, or more, or less? In my experiments they seemed reasonably, but probably I didn't test combinations of disturbances such as you have set here.

BTW optionally FSUIPC can be asked to suppress both Turbulence and Gusts (see the Winds option page). Variability is also suppressed if you suppress turbulence.

Regards

Pete

[jannier]

Pete

I am trying a flight now with that weather which is btw fsx real weather FACT Tetan UZ2 Ested FAJS

I am no weather expert so not sure how all this weather numbers intigrate but,

From what I am seeing, the plane is struggeling in the climb out, plane will swing on it horisontal axis +- 30' either way, and or the wind would suddenly overspeed, the 2000ft/min climb would jerk the nose down to a -300ft/min , speed stabilizes and climb is resumed.

Again i am no expert, but maybe these forces are just to violent/strong in FS or the plane is to over sensitive to the forces.

Next i will try to disable the options you mentioned

I dont know what else to give you.

Regards

Jannie

[Pete Dowson]

... maybe these forces are just to violent/strong in FS or the plane is to over sensitive to the forces.

Maybe. Without wind smoothing aren't you seeing ANY wind variability at all? From the figures you sent you should most certainly see and feel some!?

By all means please try the same with the options set to suppress turbulence and gusts.

Pete

[jannier]

scratching :roll: scratching

mmmm this is strange, i am cruising at FL330 now, I suppressed turb and gust, and first it had no effect, until there was a weather change.

the weather change injected 2 cloud layers, there was none before and I had the speed jumping irratic and also noticed the TAT jumping a degree or 2 Centigrate.

The moment the cloud layers was injected everything went smooth and the speed and TAT stopped jumping then there was another weather update and the cloud layers was removed, clear skies and "bham" the speed and tat starts jumping.

A while later again weather update with some clouds and the jumping stops, also noted that there was turb figures in the cloud info.

Hope you can make sense of this :shock:

edit: there are clouds outside the plane but no info about them in weatherset2 and the speed and tat jumping.

Jannie

[Pete Dowson]

... this is strange, i am cruising at FL330 now, I suppressed turb and gust, and first it had no effect, until there was a weather change.

the weather change injected 2 cloud layers, there was none before and I had the speed jumping irratic

You mean the still had erratic flight with changeable winds with the suppress options set? Did WeatherSet2 show any turbulence, variation or gusting?

...and also noticed the TAT jumping a degree or 2 Centigrate.

FSUIPC doesn't touch the OAT. The TAT would presumably change with airspeed.

The moment the cloud layers was injected everything went smooth and the speed and TAT stopped jumping then there was another weather update and the cloud layers was removed, clear skies and "bham" the speed and tat starts jumping.

Strange. But it all needs correlating with observing what is happening at the aircraft altitude in WeatherSet2.

Hope you can make sense of this

not realy, not without figures.

edit: there are clouds outside the plane but no info about them in weatherset2 and the speed and tat jumping.

Quite often with FS you can see clouds even though the actual weather at the aircraft i clear, and vice versa. I'm not sure about the range, but bear in mind that the clouds you can see out of the window are usually some way off. Without a top-down view it is difficult to correlate what you see with the local reports. This is why I have to go by what FSX is telling program's like WeatherSet2 what is actually is simulating. It is actually possible that your observations above are the opposite of what what happening actually at the aircraft.

I have a couple of file sets now to try here. I won't have time until tomorrow. It looks like until I can see these things for myself I'm not going to get any sense out of it. Maybe when you have definitely reproducible events you could send another set of two of FLT_WX_FSSAVE files. Please try to use a default aircraft when you do so I can easily run the same here.

[LATER]

Ah, I see you've already sent something else. Thanks. Ahonly pictures, no FLT stuff for reproduction. :-( And I don't understand what you said in the covering email:

with suppress turb and gust enabled the jumping of the speed and tat is

very small but with the turb and gust disabled it jumps huge margins.

By "suppress turb and gust enabled" and "turb and gust disabled" I understand the same thing, that they were both disabled in each case, which therefore makes no sense. Did you mean to state two different conditions?

Anyway, no more from me on this till tomorrow I'm afraid. I'm going to have to fly the two I have already.

Regards

Pete

[jannier]

Pete

Have send you some screenshots to explain.

Jannie

[Pete Dowson]

Have send you some screenshots to explain.

Except the text is confused. Please see my reply already, above.

And I really do need the saved flight stuff. Pictures don't help a lot, really. Sorry.

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I've just uploaded FSUIPC 4.218, available via the FSX Downloads announcement. I think I've made improvements to the smoothing, but I have no idea if they'll fix the problems you see. Could you try it and let me know, please?

Regards

Pete

[jannier]

Hi Pete

Thanks for the new file.

I will test it friday night when I get home from work, it is bit late for me now 23.30 and time for bed.

Will let you know the outcome.

Regards

Jannie

[jannier]

Hi Pete

Testing 4.218

It seems that the pulsating speed and tat has been reduced to nearly null and mostly completely.

There was the odd occasion where I notice it but not significantly enough to interfere with the planes performance.

Observation, I am not sure if the surpress turb and gust is working, with them enabled I was still experiencing turbulance with the plane and there as a odd time the plane moved left/right on the horisontal axis during the climb about 30'

Another observation, I left the wind smoothing on default 2degree or knots per second, but it does not seem to have a effect, the wind is changeing more at the rate of default fs something like 1degree or knot every 3-4seconds

I will test some more, let me know if you need more test files.

Regards

Jannie

[Pete Dowson]

Testing 4.218 ...I am not sure if the surpress turb and gust is working, with them enabled I was still experiencing turbulance with the plane and there as a odd time the plane moved left/right on the horisontal axis during the climb about 30'

Please ignore this in 4.218 because all that was changed in 4.219 which I uploaded this afternoon.

Another observation, I left the wind smoothing on default 2degree or knots per second, but it does not seem to have a effect, the wind is changeing more at the rate of default fs something like 1degree or knot every 3-4seconds

That seems fair. I can't SPEED UP FSX smoothing, I only try to slow it down when it is faster! That's the whole point. If it is being changed by FSX I don't even know what its ultimate target is, in any case, only what it is trying to set at the moment. If that is within the range you chose then it is okay! ;-)

No smoothing I've ever implemented speeds things up, ever. Not possible, not desirable.

Regards

Pete

[jannier]

Please ignore this in 4.218 because all that was changed in 4.219 which I uploaded this afternoon.

Thanks Pete will test 4.219

No smoothing I've ever implemented speeds things up, ever. Not possible, not desirable.

:lol: Sounds fair to me :D

Regards

Jannie

[jannier]

Thanks Pete will test 4.219

Hi Pete

Just did a test flight from EHAM to EDDF with FSX real weather and nothing unusual to report.

The wind was smoothed, I set it to 1degree/knot every 2 seconds and it seems to work very well.

Used the Default B738

Turbulance was also noticeable at times but was nicely dampned, felt balanced, not to little and also not to over aggressive.

Surpress turb and gust was not enable during this test run.

Over all a very nice flight and a 100% improvents over 4.217 for me. :D

Regards

Jannie

[Chappie]

Pete,

Wind smoothing is awesome...brings back the old days when this was not a problem. I am seeing a temperature problem though. With ASX running I sit on the ground in my Cessna and the OAT shows exactly what the METAR depicts. As I climb out it rose 19 degrees F in the first 2000'. ASX showed it should have dropped (most of the time naturally) so it was indicating it had good temps in the ASX download.

All of this assumes that the Cessna OAT guage works right. Great job on the winds.

UPDATE: I ran FSX without ASX connected and temps dropped the standard 3 degrees per/1000' so me thinks this goes back on ASX (imagine that!)

Steve

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks Pete will test 4.219

I've just had a thought though. At present my "simulated" turbulence etc operates whenever there a such effects present in the local weather as told to me by SimConnect. The suppression of these items doesn't directly affect my simulation of them, they operate by trying to change the weather in all of the surrounding weather stations (FSX doesn't provide a "change weather here" facility, only at WX stations).

Changing the weather all around can take many seconds, and then there's a delay in any case as the FSX weather system gradually phases in the changes (as of course it is supposed to do with wind).

I think, perhaps, I will change my code to suppress MY simulation of the effects when MY options are set so, no matter what FSX decides to do. ;-)

Regards

Pete

[jannier]

I think, perhaps, I will change my code to suppress MY simulation of the effects when MY options are set so, no matter what FSX decides to do. ;-)

Pete sounds good.

I made 2 observations.

1. When I disable the option to smooth wind only when airborn, when I restart FSX then it is enabled again, the option is not memorised.

2.When you set wind smoothing "allow changes to fs own weather" and after that you press on the miscellanous tab and then back on the wind tab, the option "allow changes to fs own weather" is disabled greyed out again.

There is some "funny" interaction with wind and miscellanous tab going on.

Also if you open fsuipc and first press on miscellanous tab then on wind tab the option "allow changes to fs own weather" is greyed out/disabled.

Regards

Jannie

[Pete Dowson]

When I disable the option to smooth wind only when airborn, when I restart FSX then it is enabled again, the option is not memorised.

Hmm. That's odd. I'm pretty sure I had that working okay. I'll re-check it.

[LATER] Ah .. it IS saved, but not restored to off on reloading. It's because I changed the default to "Yes" and forgot to change the initialisation check to react to "No" instead of "Yes"!

When you set wind smoothing "allow changes to fs own weather" and after that you press on the miscellanous tab and then back on the wind tab, the option "allow changes to fs own weather" is disabled greyed out again.

Yes, that was reported this morning in another thread very close to this one. It is a silly omission from when I moved the options around. Easy to fix, meanwhile if you go to the Miscellaneous tab, re-check the Winds one before OKaying.

Regards

Pete

[jannier]

Hi Pete

Looking out to the next version :P

Cheers

Jannie

[Pete Dowson]

Looking out to the next version

See the FSX downloads announcement now. 4.222.

Pete

[jannier]

See the FSX downloads announcement now. 4.222.

On my way to download now Pete. :o :)

[jannier]

Pete

Default BE58

Ok did a VFR flight now, dep and arr airports had strong wind with gust.

Nothing unusual, no sudden wind changes, turbulance and gust seemed to be similar to 4.219 did not notice much difference, not sure if I should have?

Overall good flight, wind was smooth and good turb gust effect, all in good balnace moderation.

The airspeed indicator would jump around when there was turbulance/gust also in 4.219, is this normal how it should be, did not bother me nor had a effect on the plane, kinda looked like a kewl "effect" not sure if this behaviour also happens in real life with the speed indicator when flying in turbulance and gusty weather?

Jannie

[Pete Dowson]

Default BE58

Sorry, what is that?

Nothing unusual, no sudden wind changes, turbulance and gust seemed to be similar to 4.219 did not notice much difference, not sure if I should have?

No, I just fixed the options muck-ups (not reloading the smoothwhenairborne option when off, and the Miscellaneous options deleting the wind smoothing).

The airspeed indicator would jump around when there was turbulance/gust also in 4.219, is this normal how it should be

Well sudden little wind changes would certainly affect the measured airspeed, of course, as the pressure in the pitot probes is varying. There'd be surely something wrong if it didn't!

Regards

Pete