FSUIPC4: Odd Controller Behavior (IN=0 initially?)

[MELKOR]

Hi Pete,

This is a mere annoyance, but I'm curious to know if there is anything I can do.

Whenever I first start a plane, OR when I go into FSUIPC control panel then back out again, FSUIPC seems to think all my controller axes are at "IN=0", regardless of where the axes are actually positioned. I need to wiggle the controllers in order for FSUIPC to read the correct value for IN (I have verified that Power Management is not enabled on the controllers, and besides: I can repro this just by going into FSUIPC control panel then back out again). The same behavior can be seen when I go to the FSUIPC calibration pages. Interstingly, just wiggling ONE of the levers will "fix" ALL axes that are attached to that controller (by fix, I mean the correct values for IN are suddenly being read).

As you might imagine, this can lead to some odd behavior. For example: with my throttle axes, IN=0 maps to OUT=8192. So, if I am idling on a taxiway, go into FSUIPC, then back out again, the engine(s) will rev up suddenly, and I have to quickly wiggle a lever on the controller!

If it makes a difference: I am using USB controllers from CH Products. The behavior is not seen from the CH calibration tool.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

- Bill

[Pete Dowson]

Whenever I first start a plane, OR when I go into FSUIPC control panel then back out again, FSUIPC seems to think all my controller axes are at "IN=0", regardless of where the axes are actually positioned.

I don't think that's FSUIPC4 -- it will be FSX. In order to make sure it doesn't intercept any axes not actually being used, since a few versions ago it doesn't intercept (nor therefore calibrate) any axis until it sees an input for one. It can't stop that first one going through as it isn't intercepting at that time.

So, until you move the axis, FSUIPC4 isn't actually interfering with it at all. That was the only way I found to deal with some of the peculiarities of SimConnect and how they affected some of the sophisticated add-ons, like the Level D aircraft.. The interception is reset whenever you load a new aircraft in case you use different axes with it.

The one way to stop this to is bypass both FSX and SimConnect and only use FSUIPC4 axis assignment, with axes directed straight ot FSUIPC4's calibrations. Then SimConnect isn't used, and there's no interception of axes needed at all (because none are seen by nor transmitted from FSX).

Interstingly, just wiggling ONE of the levers will "fix" ALL axes that are attached to that controller (by fix, I mean the correct values for IN are suddenly being read).

Hmmm. If that's the case, then the explanation I've just given cannot really be the reason -- unless the USB driver for that controller does feed values for all operating axes on that controller when you move just the one.

FSUIPC's own axis assignments doesn't take any notice of unchanging input values, it only acts on them when they change. This makes it much more efficient than the regular 6 per second readings FS performs, and it means it can operate faster when needed. However, it too may be contributing to what you observe.

As you might imagine, this can lead to some odd behavior. For example: with my throttle axes, IN=0 maps to OUT=8192. So, if I am idling on a taxiway, go into FSUIPC, then back out again, the engine(s) will rev up suddenly, and I have to quickly wiggle a lever on the controller!

It puzzles me as to why you'd get a zero input. There's never anything in FSUIPC which creates an input value. It either intercepts (or reads) and calibrates or it doesn't. So I don't really understand where your zeroes are coming from.

It might have helped a little to understand if you'd described how you are dealing with the axes. There are several combinations, different paths through FSX and FSUIPC4.

Regards

Pete

[MELKOR]

It might have helped a little to understand if you'd described how you are dealing with the axes. There are several combinations, different paths through FSX and FSUIPC4.

Right, I should have mentioned that:

• [*:31jo02vv]FSX: Disabled joystick controllers in the settings.
  [*:31jo02vv]FSUIPC: All axes are defined with an action of "Send to FS as normal axis".
  [*:31jo02vv]FSUIPC: All defined axes are calibrated.

Since posting my original message, I actually tried switching all of the axes to use an action of "Send Direct to FSUIPC Calibration". Unfortunately, this didn't seem to make any difference.

Thanks for your feedback, Pete, always appreciated!

- Bill

[Pete Dowson]

Since posting my original message, I actually tried switching all of the axes to use an action of "Send Direct to FSUIPC Calibration". Unfortunately, this didn't seem to make any difference.

In that case I'm afraid I've no idea where your "zero" readings are coming from. SimConnect and interception of axes doesn't come into it with that route, and as I say FSUIPC doesn't create its own values to send.

Maybe you could enable Axis logging in FSUIPC (Logging page) so we can see what FSUIPC traps as being sent to FSX. I'm not sure how you are measuring this "zero" raw value in any case?

Regards

Pete

[MELKOR]

Maybe you could enable Axis logging in FSUIPC (Logging page) so we can see what FSUIPC traps as being sent to FSX.

Okay, will give that a go this evening.

I'm not sure how you are measuring this "zero" raw value in any case?

I see IN=0 every time I go into FSUIPC's calibration pages. As soon as I wiggle an axis on the controller, all IN values from that controller take on expected values.

Now I am beginning to wonder if perhaps CH drivers are the culprit here (even though I don't see this behavior from their calibration tool).

Thanks,

- Bill

[Pete Dowson]

I see IN=0 every time I go into FSUIPC's calibration pages. As soon as I wiggle an axis on the controller, all IN values from that controller take on expected values.

Without checking my code, I don't think that page says anything but a 0 till it gets a value, as it hasn't got one to show (it is a numeric field and cannot show a space). It won't get a value till the axis changes. All that really means is that you have nice non-jittery axes -- if they jittered at all you'd get a value there straight-away.

What matters only is what happens in flight mode, the initial reading in the menus isn't really relevant.

Regards

Pete

[MELKOR]

Without checking my code, I don't think that page says anything but a 0 till it gets a value, as it hasn't got one to show (it is a numeric field and cannot show a space). It won't get a value till the axis changes. All that really means is that you have nice non-jittery axes -- if they jittered at all you'd get a value there straight-away.

What matters only is what happens in flight mode, the initial reading in the menus isn't really relevant.

Curious: what you say seems to imply that FS "pushes" the values to FSUIPC... is that correct?

That said: The behavior I see in flight mode (anecdotally, of course!) seems to be close to what I would expect for IN=0.

I'm about to check for new CH drivers, then will retry with logging turned on: if the repro still occurs, hopefully the log will shed some light!

Thanks Pete,

- Bill

[MELKOR]

Well, I'm afraid I don't have a log for you: The "Axis Controls" checkbox on the Logging page does not "stick" (nor does "Button and key operations", nor does "Events").

Odd, the others ones work... ?

- Bill

[Pete Dowson]

Well, I'm afraid I don't have a log for you: The "Axis Controls" checkbox on the Logging page does not "stick" (nor does "Button and key operations", nor does "Events").

What FSUIPC version are you using please?

If this is 4.301 please add "Debug=Yes" to the FSUIPC4.INI file's [General] section, before loading FSX. Then they should work fine. Sorry about that -- it's a result of re-organising some of the analysis options to make room for a load more I have included for special purposes. I'll fix it so you don't need "Debug=Yes" in the next increment.

Thanks,

Pete

[MELKOR]

What FSUIPC version are you using please?

If this is 4.301 please add "Debug=Yes" to the FSUIPC4.INI file's [General] section, before loading FSX. Then they should work fine. Sorry about that -- it's a result of re-organising some of the analysis options to make room for a load more I have included for special purposes. I'll fix it so you don't need "Debug=Yes" in the next increment.

Yes, it's 4.301. I'll add the "Debug=Yes" and give it another go tonight.

One other tidbit: I get "expected" behavior in FS9... using the exact same controller and axes setup as I'm using in FSX (by expected, I mean: the correct axes values are always read).

Thanks,

- Bill

[Pete Dowson]

One other tidbit: I get "expected" behavior in FS9... using the exact same controller and axes setup as I'm using in FSX (by expected, I mean: the correct axes values are always read).

In that case it does sound like the one value I let through from SimConnect before intercepting the axis, but that certainly doesn't apply to those assigned in FSUIPC4 and send direct to FSUIPC4 calibration. That is, it doesn't unless it is forced to intercept in any case, which is a non-standard INI-file only option.

Regards

Pete

[peterhayes]

PeteD

A post by Bob Church on your forums may throw some light on this issue: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=70574&p=438683#p438683.

Bob said: "When FS first starts, it's apparently defaulting everything to zero or whatever. FS has no data until an axis or button on the controller changes value/state and it sends a report. It should only take movement by one control on each controller, and in a lot of cases one of the values will be bobbling (127, 128, 127, 128, .....) anyway and that's enough. You're feet are on the pedals and your hands are on the yoke, it would be very unlikely that they wouldn't move by at least a count. OTOH, with the Quad, if the levers are in the detents they're dead stable because they're in deadzone, and it's likely that the endpoints are stable too so no data goes to FS and you're running on the default value until something moves. The pedals will do that too about half the time if your feet aren't on them."

I apologise if this is not a similar issue.

Regards

PeterH

[MELKOR]

Hi Pete,

Had some issues even with "Debug=Yes" - I had to add a "LogAxes=Yes" to the .ini file in order to get this axes logging to work.

Below is the attached log. Time 65015 is when I "wiggled" one axis on my CH Throttle Quadrant (which made all the axes on the quadrant go to their "expected" values).

Let me know what you think.

- Bill

********* FSUIPC4, Version 4.301 by Pete Dowson *********
Reading options from "D:\Games\FSX\Modules\FSUIPC4.ini"
User Name="William Ruppel"
User Addr="wcruppel@rogers.com"
FSUIPC4 Key is provided
WIDEFS7 not user registered, or expired
Running inside FSX (SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07)
Module base=61000000
Wind smoothing fix is fully installed
DebugStatus=15
       47 System time = 23:04:06
       47 FLT UNC path = "D:\Profile\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\"
       47 FS UNC path = "D:\Games\FSX\"
     1109 LogOptions=10000000 00000001
     1109 SimConnect_Open succeeded: waiting to check version okay
     3937 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.61472.0 (SimConnect: 10.0.61259.0)
     3937 Initialising SimConnect data requests now
     3937 FSUIPC Menu entry added
     4000 D:\Profile\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\CYKF.FLT
     4000 D:\Games\FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\C172\Cessna172SP.AIR
    19953 D:\Games\FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\PMDG747-400F\B747-400F.AIR
    56359 System time = 23:05:02, FSX time = 23:04:10 (03:04Z)
    56484 Aircraft="PMDG747-400F CARGOLUX AIRLINES VCV"
    56812 Advanced Weather Interface Enabled
    56812 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65763 (0x000100e3), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_AILERONS_SET
    56812 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65762 (0x000100e2), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET
    56812 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66387 (0x00010353), Param= 16256 (0x00003f80) AXIS_LEFT_BRAKE_SET
    56812 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66388 (0x00010354), Param= 16256 (0x00003f80) AXIS_RIGHT_BRAKE_SET
    56812 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65764 (0x000100e4), Param= 256 (0x00000100) AXIS_RUDDER_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 8192 (0x00002000) THROTTLE1_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 8256 (0x00002040) THROTTLE2_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65822 (0x0001011e), Param= 8192 (0x00002000) THROTTLE3_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65823 (0x0001011f), Param= 8256 (0x00002040) THROTTLE4_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66420 (0x00010374), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_THROTTLE1_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66423 (0x00010377), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_THROTTLE2_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66426 (0x0001037a), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_THROTTLE3_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_FLAPS_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66429 (0x0001037d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_THROTTLE4_SET
    57047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= -3 (0xfffffffd) AXIS_FLAPS_SET
    65015 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
    65015 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
    65015 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65822 (0x0001011e), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE3_SET
    65015 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65823 (0x0001011f), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE4_SET
    65015 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= -16383 (0xffffc001) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
    65015 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= -16383 (0xffffc001) AXIS_FLAPS_SET
    84265 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 28 secs = 62.3 fps
    84265 Average weather filter write interval in that time = 2137.0 msecs

[Pete Dowson]

Had some issues even with "Debug=Yes" - I had to add a "LogAxes=Yes" to the .ini file in order to get this axes logging to work.

Aaarrrgghhh!

Shows how tired I was then. It has been a pretty horrible week here, not much sleep, my ADSL going down for hours at a stretch (looks like BT have fixed it okay now).

It should have been "Debug=Please". Sorry! :-(

Which of the axes are actually troubling you? If it is only the Throttles, then it might be explained by double assignment - you are getting both AXIS_THROTTLEn_SET and THROTTLEn_SET controls going through to FS -- they won't be calibrated the same.

Perhaps you need to show me your Axis and Joystick sections from the FSUIPC4.INI file, and also double check you have NO axis assignments in FSX if you are assigning in FSUIPC4.

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

A post by Bob Church on your forums may throw some light on this issue: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=70574&p=438683#p438683.

Bob said: "When FS first starts, it's apparently defaulting everything to zero or whatever. FS has no data until an axis or button on the controller changes value/state and it sends a report. It should only take movement by one control on each controller, and in a lot of cases one of the values will be bobbling (127, 128, 127, 128, .....) anyway and that's enough. You're feet are on the pedals and your hands are on the yoke, it would be very unlikely that they wouldn't move by at least a count. OTOH, with the Quad, if the levers are in the detents they're dead stable because they're in deadzone, and it's likely that the endpoints are stable too so no data goes to FS and you're running on the default value until something moves. The pedals will do that too about half the time if your feet aren't on them."

Yes, all that sounds quite reasonable, though it doesn't quite explain why Bill has differences between FS9 and FSX.

Thanks,

Pete

[MELKOR]

Which of the axes are actually troubling you? If it is only the Throttles, then it might be explained by double assignment - you are getting both AXIS_THROTTLEn_SET and THROTTLEn_SET controls going through to FS -- they won't be calibrated the same.

As far as I can tell, all of them...

Perhaps you need to show me your Axis and Joystick sections from the FSUIPC4.INI file, and also double check you have NO axis assignments in FSX if you are assigning in FSUIPC4.

Okay, will post those later today. I'm pretty sure I DO have axis assignments in FSX (i.e. just the defaults that FSX puts in)... but I have the controllers turned entirely off in FSX - does it still matter?

Thanks,

- Bill

[Pete Dowson]

I'm pretty sure I DO have axis assignments in FSX (i.e. just the defaults that FSX puts in)... but I have the controllers turned entirely off in FSX - does it still matter?

Not if they are all disabled, but in that case it is difficult to see why you are getting two different sets of throttle controls being sent to FS.

And as I've said, FSUIPC itself never generates a value for an axis itself, not even 0. It waits for an axis value to change and sends that (IF the change is bigger than a set "delta" value). So something else is doing that it seems.

Might there be any other add-ons or add-ins doing this?

There is some extra logging you could do, just to get more information. With "Debug=Please" added to the [General] section you can also add "LogExtras=16" (replace any previous LogExtras line). This will log akk the events, axis or otherwise, sent by FSUIPC4 itself, whether via SimConnect or direct by Sending or Posting messages. Just run FSX till you know you have a spurious 0 axis value you don't think you should have, then close it. Don't bother to go into the FSUIPC4 options, please, as that would confuse the log somewhat.

Regards

Pete

[MELKOR]

Perhaps you need to show me your Axis and Joystick sections from the FSUIPC4.INI file, and also double check you have NO axis assignments in FSX if you are assigning in FSUIPC4.

Have verified that FSX has no axis assignments, and here are the relevant sections from fsuipc4.ini:

0=1X,256,F,65763,0,0,0
1=1Y,256,F,65762,0,0,0
2=1V,256
3=1V,B,-16384,-10012,66080,0
4=1V,B,10496,16383,66079,0
5=2X,256,F,66387,0,0,0
6=2Y,256,F,66388,0,0,0
7=2Z,256,F,65764,0,0,0

0=0X,256,F,66382,0,0,0
1=0Y,256,F,66420,0,0,0
2=0Z,256,F,66423,0,0,0
3=0R,256,F,66426,0,0,0
4=0U,256,F,66534,0,0,0
5=0V,256,F,66429,0,0,0
6=1X,256,F,65763,0,0,0
7=1Y,256,F,65762,0,0,0
8=1V,256
9=1V,B,-16384,-10012,66080,0
10=1V,B,10496,16383,66079,0
11=1P,0,F,66416,0,0,0
12=2X,256,F,66387,0,0,0
13=2Y,256,F,66388,0,0,0
14=2Z,256,F,65764,0,0,0

SepRevsJetsOnly=No
ApplyHeloTrim=No
FlapsSetControl=0
FlapDetents=No
ReverserControl=66292
Reverser1Control=66422
Reverser2Control=66425
Reverser3Control=66428
Reverser4Control=66431
MaxThrottleForReverser=256
AileronTrimControl=66731
RudderTrimControl=66732
CowlFlaps1Control=66162
CowlFlaps2Control=66163
CowlFlaps3Control=66164
CowlFlaps4Control=66165
SteeringTillerControl=0
MaxSteerSpeed=60
Aileron=-16384,-260,512,16256
Elevator=-16384,-260,256,16256
Rudder=-16253,-520,512,16383
LeftBrake=-16384,16256/16
RightBrake=-16384,16256/16
Throttle1=-16384,-16384,-16384,16383
Throttle2=-16384,-16384,-16384,16128
Throttle3=-16384,-16384,-16384,16383
Throttle4=-16384,-16384,-16384,16128
Spoilers=-16384,16383/16
Flaps=-16253,16383/16
ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes
ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes
ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes

Might there be any other add-ons or add-ins doing this?

I don't think so - I recently reinstalled FSX due to another issue, and have kept it exceedingly "vanilla" - have only installed FSINN and PMDG 747X.

There is some extra logging you could do, just to get more information. With "Debug=Please" added to the [General] section you can also add "LogExtras=16" (replace any previous LogExtras line). This will log akk the events, axis or otherwise, sent by FSUIPC4 itself, whether via SimConnect or direct by Sending or Posting messages. Just run FSX till you know you have a spurious 0 axis value you don't think you should have, then close it. Don't bother to go into the FSUIPC4 options, please, as that would confuse the log somewhat.

Log follows (I did the "wiggle" on the throttle quadrant at time 79531):

********* FSUIPC4, Version 4.301 by Pete Dowson *********
Reading options from "D:\Games\FSX\Modules\FSUIPC4.ini"
User Name="William Ruppel"
User Addr="wcruppel@rogers.com"
FSUIPC4 Key is provided
WIDEFS7 not user registered, or expired
Running inside FSX (SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07)
Module base=61000000
Wind smoothing fix is fully installed
DebugStatus=15
       47 System time = 20:02:20
       47 FLT UNC path = "D:\Profile\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\"
       47 FS UNC path = "D:\Games\FSX\"
     1156 LogOptions=10000000 00000111
     1156 SimConnect_Open succeeded: waiting to check version okay
     4203 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.61472.0 (SimConnect: 10.0.61259.0)
     4203 Initialising SimConnect data requests now
     4203 FSUIPC Menu entry added
     4265 Ready Flags: Ready-To-Fly=N, In Menu=Y, In Dlg=Y
     4265 D:\Profile\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\CYKF.FLT
     4265 D:\Games\FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\C172\Cessna172SP.AIR
    28547 D:\Games\FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\PMDG747-400F\B747-400F.AIR
    28547 Exception 3 "UNRECOGNIZED_ID", Ref 2333, Index param -1 on unknown request!
    70125 Ready Flags: Ready-To-Fly=N, In Menu=N, In Dlg=N
    70187 Error 126 (The specified module could not be found. ) "D:\Games\FSX\Modules\PFCFSX.DLL"
    70187 Error 126 (The specified module could not be found. ) "D:\Games\FSX\Modules\EPICINFO5.DLL"
    70218 Ready Flags: Ready-To-Fly=Y, In Menu=N, In Dlg=N
    70218 System time = 20:03:30, FSX time = 20:02:24 (00:02Z)
    70343 Aircraft="PMDG747-400F CARGOLUX AIRLINES VCV"
    70672 Advanced Weather Interface Enabled
    70672 Sending "AXIS_AILERONS_SET" 65763 [0x100E3], Param -520, Group 1
    70672 Sending "AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET" 65762 [0x100E2], Param -390, Group 1
    70672 Transmitting "GEAR_DOWN" 66080 [0x10220], Param 0, Group 1
    70672 Sending "AXIS_LEFT_BRAKE_SET" 66387 [0x10353], Param 16256, Group 1
    70672 Sending "AXIS_RIGHT_BRAKE_SET" 66388 [0x10354], Param 16256, Group 1
    70672 Sending "AXIS_RUDDER_SET" 65764 [0x100E4], Param 0, Group 1
    70672 Transmitting "AXIS_AILERONS_SET" 65763 [0x100E3], Param -265, Group 2
    70672 Transmitting "AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET" 65762 [0x100E2], Param -133, Group 2
    70672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65763 (0x000100e3), Param= -520 (0xfffffdf8) AXIS_AILERONS_SET
    70672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65762 (0x000100e2), Param= -390 (0xfffffe7a) AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET
    70672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66387 (0x00010353), Param= 16256 (0x00003f80) AXIS_LEFT_BRAKE_SET
    70672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66388 (0x00010354), Param= 16256 (0x00003f80) AXIS_RIGHT_BRAKE_SET
    70672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65764 (0x000100e4), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_RUDDER_SET
    70672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65763 (0x000100e3), Param= -265 (0xfffffef7) AXIS_AILERONS_SET
    70672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65762 (0x000100e2), Param= -133 (0xffffff7b) AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET
    70922 Sending "AXIS_SPOILER_SET" 66382 [0x1034E], Param 0, Group 1
    70922 Sending "AXIS_THROTTLE1_SET" 66420 [0x10374], Param 0, Group 1
    70922 Sending "AXIS_THROTTLE2_SET" 66423 [0x10377], Param 0, Group 1
    70922 Sending "AXIS_THROTTLE3_SET" 66426 [0x1037A], Param 0, Group 1
    70922 Sending "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 0, Group 1
    70922 Sending "AXIS_THROTTLE4_SET" 66429 [0x1037D], Param 0, Group 1
    70922 Transmitting "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 8192, Group 2
    70922 Transmitting "THROTTLE2_SET" 65821 [0x1011D], Param 8256, Group 2
    70922 Transmitting "THROTTLE3_SET" 65822 [0x1011E], Param 8192, Group 2
    70922 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param -3, Group 2
    70922 Transmitting "THROTTLE4_SET" 65823 [0x1011F], Param 8256, Group 2
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 8192 (0x00002000) THROTTLE1_SET
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 8256 (0x00002040) THROTTLE2_SET
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65822 (0x0001011e), Param= 8192 (0x00002000) THROTTLE3_SET
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65823 (0x0001011f), Param= 8256 (0x00002040) THROTTLE4_SET
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66420 (0x00010374), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_THROTTLE1_SET
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66423 (0x00010377), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_THROTTLE2_SET
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66426 (0x0001037a), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_THROTTLE3_SET
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_FLAPS_SET
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66429 (0x0001037d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_THROTTLE4_SET
    70922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= -3 (0xfffffffd) AXIS_FLAPS_SET
    71187 Transmitting "PAN_VIEW" 66416 [0x10370], Param -1, Group 1
    75140 Transmitting "AXIS_AILERONS_SET" 65763 [0x100E3], Param 0, Group 1
    79531 Transmitting "THROTTLE1_CUT" 65967 [0x101AF], Param 0, Group 1
    79531 Transmitting "THROTTLE2_CUT" 65972 [0x101B4], Param 0, Group 1
    79531 Transmitting "THROTTLE3_CUT" 65977 [0x101B9], Param 0, Group 1
    79531 Transmitting "THROTTLE4_CUT" 65982 [0x101BE], Param 0, Group 1
    79562 Transmitting "AXIS_SPOILER_SET" 66382 [0x1034E], Param 16383, Group 1
    79562 Transmitting "AXIS_THROTTLE1_SET" 66420 [0x10374], Param -16384, Group 1
    79562 Transmitting "AXIS_THROTTLE2_SET" 66423 [0x10377], Param -16384, Group 1
    79562 Transmitting "AXIS_THROTTLE3_SET" 66426 [0x1037A], Param -16384, Group 1
    79562 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 16125, Group 1
    79562 Transmitting "AXIS_THROTTLE4_SET" 66429 [0x1037D], Param -16384, Group 1
    79562 Transmitting "AXIS_SPOILER_SET" 66382 [0x1034E], Param -16383, Group 2
    79562 Transmitting "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 0, Group 2
    79562 Transmitting "THROTTLE2_SET" 65821 [0x1011D], Param 0, Group 2
    79562 Transmitting "THROTTLE3_SET" 65822 [0x1011E], Param 0, Group 2
    79562 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param -16383, Group 2
    79562 Transmitting "THROTTLE4_SET" 65823 [0x1011F], Param 0, Group 2
    79562 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
    79562 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
    79562 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65822 (0x0001011e), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE3_SET
    79562 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65823 (0x0001011f), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE4_SET
    79562 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= -16383 (0xffffc001) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
    79562 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= -16383 (0xffffc001) AXIS_FLAPS_SET
    79609 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 15480, Group 1
    79640 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 15222, Group 1
    79672 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 14577, Group 1
    79703 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 14061, Group 1
    79718 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 13416, Group 1
    79718 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param -10923, Group 2
    79718 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= -10923 (0xffffd555) AXIS_FLAPS_SET
    79750 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 12900, Group 1
    79922 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 13545, Group 1
    79922 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param -16383, Group 2
    79922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= -16383 (0xffffc001) AXIS_FLAPS_SET
    79953 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 14706, Group 1
    79968 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 16125, Group 1
    80000 Transmitting "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param 16383, Group 1
    86453 Ready Flags: Ready-To-Fly=Y, In Menu=Y, In Dlg=Y
    93593 System time = 20:03:53, FSX time = 20:02:38 (00:02Z)
    93593 *** FSUIPC log file being closed
Average frame rate for running time of 14 secs = 36.2 fps
Average weather filter write interval in that time = 2406.2 msecs
Memory managed: 35 Allocs, 35 Freed
********* FSUIPC Log file closed ***********

- Bill

[Pete Dowson]

Have verified that FSX has no axis assignments, and here are the relevant sections from fsuipc4.ini

It looks like you only ever fly a 747-400, then, or else use the keyboard for Throttle with all others? Your default axis assignments are:

0=1X,256,F,65763,0,0,0 ailerons
1=1Y,256,F,65762,0,0,0 elevator
2=1V,256
3=1V,B,-16384,-10012,66080,0 gear down
4=1V,B,10496,16383,66079,0 gear up
5=2X,256,F,66387,0,0,0 left brake
6=2Y,256,F,66388,0,0,0 right brake
7=2Z,256,F,65764,0,0,0 rudder

i.e. no throttle assigned at all, unless you do really have throttles assigned in FSX as well. This is what it looks like in the Log.

These are the assignments being used in your test:

0=0X,256,F,66382,0,0,0 spoiler
1=0Y,256,F,66420,0,0,0 throttle1
2=0Z,256,F,66423,0,0,0 throttle2
3=0R,256,F,66426,0,0,0 throttle3
4=0U,256,F,66534,0,0,0 flaps
5=0V,256,F,66429,0,0,0 throttle4
6=1X,256,F,65763,0,0,0 ailerons
7=1Y,256,F,65762,0,0,0 elevator
8=1V,256
9=1V,B,-16384,-10012,66080,0 gear down
10=1V,B,10496,16383,66079,0 gear up
11=1P,0,F,66416,0,0,0 pan view
12=2X,256,F,66387,0,0,0 left brake
13=2Y,256,F,66388,0,0,0 right brake
14=2Z,256,F,65764,0,0,0 rudder

This puzzles me as I thought you said you had them assigned direct, as I advised. Instead you have them all arranged to be sent to FSX as FS controls, before then being intercepted by FSUIPC4 for calibration. As I explained, when you do this it is just the same, as far as calibration is concerned, as when you assign in FSX only. FSUIPC4 does not intercept the controls and perform the calibration until it has seen the control used -- and it has to stop interception each time to load an new aircraft or enter and exit the options so that it can re-check which axes are being used.

Therefore, one value, from FSX, will always get through before FSUIPC4's calibration can take effect. Normally all this will happen quite quickly because of jitter on the axes, but if you have stable inputs, or the axes parked in a stable position (possibly jitter-eliminated by their own drivers), then you may well see FSX's initial default reading before FSUIPC4's calibration takes over -- see the message earlier from Peter Hayes

You can avoid this by assigning the Axes "direct to FSUIPC4 calibration" instead of to FS controls. I thought you said you were doing this, but you are not, so the logs and so on are really of little use to us.

It does worry me a little, still, that you continue to get both THROTTLEn_SET and AXIS_THROTTLEn_SET controls being sent. This is why I asked in my last message about other add-ons:

I don't think so - I recently reinstalled FSX due to another issue, and have kept it exceedingly "vanilla" - have only installed FSINN and PMDG 747X.

Hmm. The PMDG add-on makes it "exceedingly neapolitan" if you ask me -- there's a lot of extra systems code added which takes over a lot of FSX's functions. I'm wondering if the PMDG code could be confusing the issue here. Could you please use a default aircraft for these tests? You'll need to load FSX, change all your axis assignments to be Direct, load a default aircraft, save a flight marked as "default". Then relad FSX and see if you still get the problem. Show me the logs then.

Regards

Pete

[MELKOR]

It looks like you only ever fly a 747-400, then, or else use the keyboard for Throttle with all others?

Right, due to my recent reinstall of FSX.

This puzzles me as I thought you said you had them assigned direct, as I advised. Instead you have them all arranged to be sent to FSX as FS controls, before then being intercepted by FSUIPC4 for calibration. As I explained, when you do this it is just the same, as far as calibration is concerned, as when you assign in FSX only. FSUIPC4 does not intercept the controls and perform the calibration until it has seen the control used -- and it has to stop interception each time to load an new aircraft or enter and exit the options so that it can re-check which axes are being used.

Actually, I did try using Direct, but that didn't seem to make a difference (and, in fact, I had some other odd behavior with Direct: the axes would not register movement until after I had passed some sort of threshold).

Hmm. The PMDG add-on makes it "exceedingly neapolitan" if you ask me -- there's a lot of extra systems code added which takes over a lot of FSX's functions. I'm wondering if the PMDG code could be confusing the issue here.

Haha, yup, fair enough. :)

Could you please use a default aircraft for these tests? You'll need to load FSX, change all your axis assignments to be Direct, load a default aircraft, save a flight marked as "default". Then relad FSX and see if you still get the problem. Show me the logs then.

Will do.

- Bill

[MELKOR]

No apparent change in behavior, after changing to Direct.

I removed the section entirely, and here is the section:

0=0X,256,D,22,0,0,0
1=0Y,256,D,9,0,0,0
2=0Z,256,D,10,0,0,0
3=0R,256,D,11,0,0,0
4=0U,256,D,23,0,0,0
5=0V,256,D,12,0,0,0
6=1X,256,D,1,0,0,0
7=1Y,256,D,2,0,0,0
8=1V,256
9=1V,B,-16384,-10012,66080,0
10=1V,B,10496,16383,66079,0
11=1P,0,F,66416,0,0,0
12=2X,256,D,7,0,0,0
13=2Y,256,D,8,0,0,0
14=2Z,256,D,3,0,0,0

Here is the log. I "wiggled" throttle 1 at time 62843:

********* FSUIPC4, Version 4.301 by Pete Dowson *********
Reading options from "D:\Games\FSX\Modules\FSUIPC4.ini"
User Name="William Ruppel"
User Addr="wcruppel@rogers.com"
FSUIPC4 Key is provided
WIDEFS7 not user registered, or expired
Running inside FSX (SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07)
Module base=61000000
Wind smoothing fix is fully installed
DebugStatus=15
       62 System time = 16:47:11
       62 FLT UNC path = "D:\Profile\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\"
       62 FS UNC path = "D:\Games\FSX\"
     1109 LogOptions=10000000 00000111
     1109 SimConnect_Open succeeded: waiting to check version okay
     3906 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.61472.0 (SimConnect: 10.0.61259.0)
     3906 Initialising SimConnect data requests now
     3906 FSUIPC Menu entry added
     3968 Ready Flags: Ready-To-Fly=N, In Menu=Y, In Dlg=Y
     3968 D:\Profile\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\CYKF.FLT
     3968 D:\Games\FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\C172\Cessna172SP.AIR
    14203 D:\Games\FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\b747_400\Boeing747-400.AIR
    14203 Exception 3 "UNRECOGNIZED_ID", Ref 2333, Index param -1 on unknown request!
    48265 Ready Flags: Ready-To-Fly=N, In Menu=N, In Dlg=N
    48312 Error 126 (The specified module could not be found. ) "D:\Games\FSX\Modules\PFCFSX.DLL"
    48312 Error 126 (The specified module could not be found. ) "D:\Games\FSX\Modules\EPICINFO5.DLL"
    48328 Ready Flags: Ready-To-Fly=Y, In Menu=N, In Dlg=N
    48343 Advanced Weather Interface Enabled
    48562 System time = 16:47:59, FSX time = 16:47:16 (20:47Z)
    48687 Aircraft="Boeing 747-400"
    49343 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 8192, Group 1
    49359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 8192 (0x00002000) THROTTLE1_SET
    49359 Sending "THROTTLE2_SET" 65821 [0x1011D], Param 8256, Group 1
    49359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 8256 (0x00002040) THROTTLE2_SET
    49359 Sending "THROTTLE3_SET" 65822 [0x1011E], Param 8192, Group 1
    49359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65822 (0x0001011e), Param= 8192 (0x00002000) THROTTLE3_SET
    49359 Sending "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param -3, Group 1
    49359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= -3 (0xfffffffd) AXIS_FLAPS_SET
    49359 Sending "THROTTLE4_SET" 65823 [0x1011F], Param 8256, Group 1
    49359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65823 (0x0001011f), Param= 8256 (0x00002040) THROTTLE4_SET
    49359 Sending "AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET" 65762 [0x100E2], Param 131, Group 1
    49453 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65762 (0x000100e2), Param= 131 (0x00000083) AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET
    49453 Transmitting "GEAR_DOWN" 66080 [0x10220], Param 0, Group 1
    49453 Sending "AXIS_LEFT_BRAKE_SET" 66387 [0x10353], Param 0, Group 1
    49453 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66387 (0x00010353), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_LEFT_BRAKE_SET
    49453 Sending "AXIS_RIGHT_BRAKE_SET" 66388 [0x10354], Param 0, Group 1
    49453 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66388 (0x00010354), Param= 0 (0x00000000) AXIS_RIGHT_BRAKE_SET
    49765 Transmitting "PAN_VIEW" 66416 [0x10370], Param -1, Group 1
    62843 Sending "AXIS_SPOILER_SET" 66382 [0x1034E], Param -16383, Group 1
    62843 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= -16383 (0xffffc001) AXIS_SPOILER_SET
    62843 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 0, Group 1
    62843 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
    62843 Sending "THROTTLE2_SET" 65821 [0x1011D], Param 0, Group 1
    62843 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
    62843 Sending "THROTTLE3_SET" 65822 [0x1011E], Param 0, Group 1
    62843 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65822 (0x0001011e), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE3_SET
    62843 Sending "AXIS_FLAPS_SET" 66534 [0x103E6], Param -16383, Group 1
    62843 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= -16383 (0xffffc001) AXIS_FLAPS_SET
    62843 Sending "THROTTLE4_SET" 65823 [0x1011F], Param 0, Group 1
    62843 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65823 (0x0001011f), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE4_SET
    62859 Transmitting "THROTTLE1_CUT" 65967 [0x101AF], Param 0, Group 1
    62859 Transmitting "THROTTLE2_CUT" 65972 [0x101B4], Param 0, Group 1
    62859 Transmitting "THROTTLE3_CUT" 65977 [0x101B9], Param 0, Group 1
    62859 Transmitting "THROTTLE4_CUT" 65982 [0x101BE], Param 0, Group 1
    62937 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 130, Group 1
    62937 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 130 (0x00000082) THROTTLE1_SET
    62968 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 325, Group 1
    62968 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 325 (0x00000145) THROTTLE1_SET
    63062 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 585, Group 1
    63062 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 585 (0x00000249) THROTTLE1_SET
    63140 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 975, Group 1
    63140 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 975 (0x000003cf) THROTTLE1_SET
    63171 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 1235, Group 1
    63187 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1235 (0x000004d3) THROTTLE1_SET
    63234 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 1560, Group 1
    63250 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1560 (0x00000618) THROTTLE1_SET
    63265 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 1755, Group 1
    63265 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1755 (0x000006db) THROTTLE1_SET
    63328 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 1885, Group 1
    63328 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1885 (0x0000075d) THROTTLE1_SET
    63359 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 1755, Group 1
    63375 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1755 (0x000006db) THROTTLE1_SET
    64390 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 1495, Group 1
    64390 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1495 (0x000005d7) THROTTLE1_SET
    64421 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 1235, Group 1
    64421 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1235 (0x000004d3) THROTTLE1_SET
    64453 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 780, Group 1
    64468 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 780 (0x0000030c) THROTTLE1_SET
    64484 Transmitting "THROTTLE1_CUT" 65967 [0x101AF], Param 0, Group 1
    64484 Sending "THROTTLE1_SET" 65820 [0x1011C], Param 65, Group 1
    64500 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 65 (0x00000041) THROTTLE1_SET
    73593 Ready Flags: Ready-To-Fly=Y, In Menu=Y, In Dlg=Y
    73593 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 24 secs = 63.1 fps
    73593 Average weather filter write interval in that time = 1489.3 msecs

    80140 System time = 16:48:31, FSX time = 16:47:39 (20:47Z)
    80140 *** FSUIPC log file being closed
Average frame rate for running time of 24 secs = 63.1 fps
Average weather filter write interval in that time = 1489.3 msecs
Memory managed: 61 Allocs, 61 Freed
********* FSUIPC Log file closed ***********

- Bill

[Pete Dowson]

No apparent change in behavior, after changing to Direct.

That's much better -- at least you don't have the dual axis types both being used.

The fact that there's an initial "8192" (calibrated from 0 I assume) being sent is now most certainly due to a zero reading being sent either by your joystick or by its driver. So that's really as much as FSUIPC can do for you. Why you don't see the same in FS9 is odd -- but maybe you should do all this in FS9 and compare logs (though, sadly, I don't have exactly the same logging there). Maybe it is occurring in FS9 but has no noticeable effect because it occurs before FS9 is "ready to fly" -- in FSX these operations are not actually started until that stage, so you may be observing a spurious reading from the driver/joystick which has always been there.

I removed the section entirely, and here is the section:

For the PMDG? So now it is impossible to see if anything in the PMDG code is responsible, or contributing. Don't you ever use other aircraft? Results from a default aircraft would have been far more relevant and interesting.

Why not simply make that section THE default [Axes] section, so you can use it with all aircraft?

Here is the log.

By the way, I did say I fixed the problem setting the logging options in 4.302, and now 4.303 is released, but I see you are still using 4.301 (not that it would make any difference here).

I don't think there's much else I can do for you as the cause certainly looks external to FSUIPC. I cannot make any of my "cheap" joysticks/gamepads (that I keep around just for such testing) do the same -- they use default Windows drivers.

Regards

Pete

[MELKOR]

I removed the section entirely, and here is the section:

For the PMDG? So now it is impossible to see if anything in the PMDG code is responsible, or contributing. Don't you ever use other aircraft? Results from a default aircraft would have been far more relevant and interesting.

Sorry, I should have mentioned: I used the default 747-400 for this, not PMDG. Yes, I do use other aircraft, but started from a complete reinstall recently.

Why not simply make that section THE default [Axes] section, so you can use it with all aircraft?

Well, simply put: I use different axes for different purposes on other aircraft.

I don't think there's much else I can do for you as the cause certainly looks external to FSUIPC. I cannot make any of my "cheap" joysticks/gamepads (that I keep around just for such testing) do the same -- they use default Windows drivers.

Okay Pete, thanks for all of the feedback on this. As I mentioned at the very beginning, this is nothing more than an annoyance - I can live with it.

- Bill