Saitek TQ trottle settings issue. Please help.

[duckbilled]

Hello Pete,

I am using the Saitek yoke and add on TQ. I have managed to get everything calibrated in FSX with FSUIPC 4.53 but I am having one problem that I can't figure out.

There are 6 axis levers. From left to right, they are assigned as the following:

First TQ (one that came w/yoke)

Spoilers (1z)

Throttle eng 1 (1u)

Throttle eng 2 (1v)

Add on TQ

Throttle eng 3 (0x)

Throttle eng 4 (0y)

Flaps (0z)

The problem is that I can't get the n1% to equalize between the eng1&2 and eng3&4. the thrust levels inputted by the levers and the different TQs varies by 10%-20%. Full thrust and idle are the same for both TQs. I tried adjusting the slope which equalizes the n1% when I advance the throttles 50% (physical axis position, not n1%) but at 25% and 75% things are still out of wack. If I make them equal at 25%, they are out of wack at the other positions. I can't find a way to make them equal at all positions. I don't mind if it is off by a small margin but 10-20% makes control difficult.

I understand that the slope isn't intended to udjust the throttle settings. Is there another setting that I should be looking at or do you have any ideas? If it is a hardware issue, it is a little late for me to return everything. Right now the only thing I can think of is mapping 1u and 1v to the other two engines and using 0x and 0y for something else.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide. I have provided the information from the .ini file just in case it is helpful.

-Jeff

[JoystickCalibration]

AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes

ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes

ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes

ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=66731

RudderTrimControl=66732

CowlFlaps1Control=66162

CowlFlaps2Control=66163

CowlFlaps3Control=66164

CowlFlaps4Control=66165

SteeringTillerControl=0

MaxSteerSpeed=60

Throttle=-16380,16380

Throttle1=-16384,-512,512,16383/32

Throttle2=-16384,-512,512,16383/32

Throttle3=-16384,-512,512,16383/32

Throttle4=-16384,-512,512,16383/32

SlopeThrottle3=4

SlopeThrottle4=4

SlopeThrottle1=-1

SlopeThrottle2=-1

Spoilers=-16380,16380/16

Flaps=0,16380/16

[Axes]

0=0X,256,D,11,0,0,0

1=0Y,256,D,12,0,0,0

2=0Z,256,D,23,0,0,0

3=1Z,256,D,22,0,0,0

4=1U,256,D,9,0,0,0

5=1V,256,D,10,0,0,0

[Pete Dowson]

The problem is that I can't get the n1% to equalize between the eng1&2 and eng3&4.

You do know that throttle levers don't always line up for equal N1% in real aircraft too, don'yt you?

the thrust levels inputted by the levers and the different TQs varies by 10%-20%.

Hmm. 10% might be reasonable, but 20% sounds too much. And the difference is between the two units, not between two levers on the same unit at all?

Are these calibrated properly in Windows' Game controllers? That's the first thing to check. And I assume you assigned them in FSUIPC, not in FS? Or did you?

Full thrust and idle are the same for both TQs. I tried adjusting the slope which equalizes the n1% when I advance the throttles 50% (physical axis position, not n1%) but at 25% and 75% things are still out of wack.

Well it would be really a lucky coincidence if any of the slopes matched the response curve of the other unit.

I understand that the slope isn't intended to udjust the throttle settings. Is there another setting that I should be looking at or do you have any ideas?

The only thing any joystick processing can do is calibrate by end points, unless you have something like the Slopes facility but with user-specified curves. Even with that it would take ages to get them lined up.

The main thing to do is make sure the units are calibrated in every place they should be -- in windows, in any Saitek driver or manager you might have loaded, as well as in FSUIPC.

I just looked at your FSUIPC calibrations:

Throttle=-16380,16380

Throttle1=-16384,-512,512,16383/32

Throttle2=-16384,-512,512,16383/32

Throttle3=-16384,-512,512,16383/32

Throttle4=-16384,-512,512,16383/32

Spoilers=-16380,16380/16

Flaps=0,16380/16

Now those all look like default values -- most unlikely to apply to any real axes. It looks like you've not actually performed the calibration steps at all, for any of the axes!

If it is a hardware issue, it is a little late for me to return everything. Right now the only thing I can think of is mapping 1u and 1v to the other two engines and using 0x and 0y for something else.

If nothing does it, AFTER you actualy do the FSUIPC calibration properly, then it seems to me that the makers must have used a different type or make of potentiometer in one of the units, compared to the other. Did you buy them at the same time?

I'd first of all bring this up on Saitek's support forum, and even directly contact them for advise. They are a reputable company. If it looks like you have a badly matched pair then I'm sure they'd be sympathetic.

I could consider adding a "user-defined slope" facility, but I wouldn't consider doing that graphically -- only by a series of numerical values in the INI file. It would enable fine adjustments to be made at a larger number of points (FSUIPC's slopes use 128 but maybe some of those should be interpolated if user specified). But this would be quite hard work for you even if available. So, try the alternatives first then let me know.

Regards

Pete

[guenseli]

The problem is that I can't get the n1% to equalize between the eng1&2 and eng3&4. the thrust levels inputted by the levers and the different TQs varies by 10%-20%. Full thrust and idle are the same for both TQs.

wow, thats exactly the same problem I have.

I haven't ever posted here about it, because it was to complicated for me due to language handicaps and laziness...

But, yes, thats the same problem I have with this two TQ from Saitek

I have tried out many different calibrations via FSUIPC, but nothing is working really good.

The stunning thing is that the TQs are well calibrated when you see them in the windows settings - but the reason for this could be that the calibration bars are too small to see real differences.

I think too, that this is a problem of Saitek due to different potis or sth like that.

But I'm to lazy and to tired to send my throttles for some weeks to Saitek with the risk to get them back and nothing has changed...

So, if this could be solved via FSUIPC it would be very great... but I have no clue if this is possible or if the effort to solve this is a waste of time.

I'll read this thread mit big interest the next weeks!

guenter

[duckbilled]

Hello Pete,

Thanks for the information. Just to clear things up a bit, I am aware (as mentioned in my original post) that there will be variance between what each lever produces. In addition, I did do the axis calibration. It may not look like it but I did - spent a whole day playing with it in fact. I do thank you for prompting me to re-calibrate the thrust levers because I ended up calibrating them differently the second time around.

I believe that the Saitek TQ's must be calibrated the way I did it the second time. They can not be calibrated like CH TQ's because of the built in detente at the bottom. In FSUIPC, you can't set the bottom value at that detente, you have to set it just above the detente. Maybe it said something like this in the user guide about this but I didn't notice it. If you do it this way, the thrust levels will be more or less even (at least it worked that way on my hardware). Even if they are not on the first try, you can play with the bottom position a little to make adjustments. As you pointed out, it works a lot better than adjusting the slope. I can say that all of the top values remained the same on each axis.

Thanks for the help.

-Jeff

[Pete Dowson]

They can not be calibrated like CH TQ's because of the built in detente at the bottom. In FSUIPC, you can't set the bottom value at that detente, you have to set it just above the detente. Maybe it said something like this in the user guide about this but I didn't notice it.

My user guide won't mention detentes like that because not many levers have any. But it does advise you to always set both the minimum and maximum positions AWAY from the end stops. This is so that you can always reach the extremes. The actual vlaues returned ot FS can vary slightly, due to temperature, humidity, voltage levels and so on, that this precaution is almost always worth while.

I am looking at ways of allowing user-specified "slopes" so that you can make two or more levers match in enough places along their travel that they are never very disparate.

Regards

Pete

[duckbilled]

My user guide won't mention detentes like that because not many levers have any. But it does advise you to always set both the minimum and maximum positions AWAY from the end stops.

Ah yes, I do recall that now. Thanks again for the help.

-Jeff

[guenseli]

I am looking at ways of allowing user-specified "slopes" so that you can make two or more levers match in enough places along their travel that they are never very disparate.

Would be great if you have the time and passion to do that.

I have calibrated the TQs in the way Jeff says, but not with 100% success.

Throttle 1 and 2 (of the middle Thrust Throttles) are nearly similar at 50%

Throttle 3 is behind 50% in FS when the Throttle itself is at 50%

Throttle 4 is a little bit over 50%

It is ok for me.

But if there is a way to change this kind of behaviour one day so let me know, please ;-)

Thanks and good night

[duckbilled]

Would be great if you have the time and passion to do that.

I have calibrated the TQs in the way Jeff says, but not with 100% success.

Throttle 1 and 2 (of the middle Thrust Throttles) are nearly similar at 50%

Throttle 3 is behind 50% in FS when the Throttle itself is at 50%

Throttle 4 is a little bit over 50%

It is ok for me.

But if there is a way to change this kind of behaviour one day so let me know, please ;-)

Thanks and good night

I would try adjusting the setting for top(IN) and bottom(OUT) for each axis making sure the top is not all the way at the top and the bottom is above the detente. I doubt it will be possible to get them exact at every point along the axis but a little bit of experimentation might produce better results.

[mtjoeng]

Saitek TQ's must be calibrated the way I did it the second time. They can not be calibrated like CH TQ's because of the built in detente at the bottom. In FSUIPC, you can't set the bottom value at that detente, you have to set it just above the detente./quote]

you can (should?) calibrate at top and 'bottom'

the indent 'below' the 'bottom' of a Saitek is a Switch

I use this to define Reverse ('hold F2', cut 'F1 when released')

so there's no gradual reverse, unlike CH

mt

[Pete Dowson]

But if there is a way to change this kind of behaviour one day so let me know, please ;-)

I have nearly completed changes to allow close synchronisation between throttles (also mixture and prop pitch levers), but at present only for FSUIPC4 (FSX and ESP). When I know it works okay I'll port it over to FSUIPC3.

You didn't say in the thread whether you use fSX or FS9. I see that "duckbilled" is using FSX, but i could do with more than one tester. I can't test it properly as I only have a silly little game pad with spring-loaded mini joystick paddle things. My main system is PFC so uses my PFC driver.

Regards

Pete

[guenseli]

Hello,

sorry that I haven't told you my system... its FSX.

I have a Saitek X52 Pro and 2 Saitek Throttle Quadrants, all running with Vista 64.

I'm curoius what there will be coming ;-)

But I have visitors this weekend so i just can test or reply next week...

Thank you very much for your great support!

[Pete Dowson]

But I have visitors this weekend so i just can test or reply next week...

That's okay. I'm busy this weekend with other things in any case. I will have an FSX update ready some time on Monday. I've not finished it yet in any case, and will need to write something about it as well! ;-)

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I will have an FSX update ready some time on Monday. I've not finished it yet in any case, and will need to write something about it as well! ;-)

Okay. Please download 4.535, now available in the Updates announcement above. The facility (a "Sync Pos" button on the 4 throttles, 4 props, and 4 mixtures pages) is now working as well as I can make it with the resources I have here, and was also checked on a friend's pair of Saitek quadrants, so it should be okay. Here's the note describing the addition in the Announcement:

5. Added a position synchronisation option to the 4 throttles, 4 prop pitch, and 4 mixtures calibration pages so that multiple levers can be calibrated to line up when applying the same inputs to FS. An extract from the next User Guide update is included in the ZIP explaining how to use this facility. Feed back is requested, please. when proven in the field this option will be ported to FSUIPC3 for use the FS9 etc.

Let me know, please.

Regards

Pete

[guenseli]

Hello Mr Dowson,

sorry for my delayed answer... the oktoberfest started at saturday ;-)

this is very great feature you've implemented.

Thank you so much!

It works perfectly!!!

The only very little thing is, that there any feedback would be good, when pressing the "sync" button.

Maybe a little counter which show the number how often the sync was pressed.

But this is not really important...

Again, thank you!

Your support is absolutelly the greatest in the FS World!

guenter

[Pete Dowson]

Maybe a little counter which show the number how often the sync was pressed.

But this is not realy important...

No, and iin fact it doesn't really matter. You cannot actually exceed the maximum in any case, as close settings get replaced. With a range of 126 positions (other than the 0 and 127 min and max) if you ever achieve the 63 synchronised ones they will be as close as allowed! I actually doubt that you could get more than about 15 or 20 no matter how much you tried! ;-)

Glad it works well for you!

Incidentally, a small bug was found which could cause a crash if you somehow tried to set a sync point beyond one of the lever's max positions. The current download versions, 4.537 and 3.934, have this fixed, so please do update your copy now. No need to do any re-calibration or re-syncing.

Regards

Pete

[guenseli]

Incidentally, a small bug was found

no problem, I have tested it with these versions.

thank you!!!