FSX Winds Aloft, something is messing with them

[MB327]

Pete, I apologize in advance if this turns out to have nothing at all to do with FSUIPC, actually I doubt that it has. But to be totally honest, I have exhausted all other lines of support, including the weather program vendor. Since you know more about FS than about anyone alive or dead, I will stick out my neck and ask for your opinion.

Winds Aloft sent to FSX by either ActiveSky X or VATSIM weather don't turn out to be what is being sent. At any given altitude, the winds I should be realizing are dramatically different, often accompanied by sudden wind shifts of up to 180 degrees and big windspeed changes. If ASX is showing 270 and 80 knots and -50 degrees temp, I am seeing something else, often a whole lot different. In a group flight tonight using VATSIM weather, the other three aircraft, same altitude and just ahead/behind me, most often had the same winds while I had something completely different (note they were all in FS9 and me in FSX).

In trouble shooting this over the last couple weeks, I have removed FSUIPC from my modules folder and found nothing changed. After reinstalling FSUIPC and updating to 4.561, clearing weather settings, I am still seeing this. Quite frankly, I have no idea what demon is inside my PC causing this, and neither does anyone else.

Mike Bevington

To cover the basics, here is my current FSUIPC ini file and the weather section of my FSX config file. And yes, I have FSX set to User Defined Weather.

FSUIPC4 log

Reading options from "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Modules\FSUIPC4.ini"

NOTE: SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07 is supported, but it isn't installed.

Trying to connect to SimConnect SP1 May07 ...

User Name="Michael Bevington"

User Addr="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX deleted for privacy"

FSUIPC4 Key is provided

WIDEFS7 not user registered, or expired

Running inside FSX (using SimConnect SP1 May07)

Module base=61000000

Wind smoothing fix is fully installed

DebugStatus=15

375 System time = 07/01/2010 21:01:16

375 FLT UNC path = "C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\"

391 FS UNC path = "\\AMD-64\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\"

1281 LogOptions=00000000 00000001

1281 SimConnect_Open succeeded: waiting to check version okay

30406 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.61355.0 (SimConnect: 10.0.61242.0)

30406 Initialising SimConnect data requests now

30406 FSUIPC Menu entry added

30484 c:\documents and settings\michael\my documents\flight simulator x files\KSTL Warm.FLT

30500 \\AMD-64\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\SimObjects\Airplanes\LVLD_B763\B767-300.AIR

81453 System time = 07/01/2010 21:02:37, Simulator time = 21:01:41 (03:01Z)

81453 Aircraft="Level D Simulations B767-300ER - American Airlines"

93781 Advanced Weather Interface Enabled

1392594 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 1303 secs = 17.9 fps

1749094 **** No SimConnect events or states being received! Re-connecting now****

1749094 SimConnect_Open succeeded: waiting to check version okay

1749094 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.61355.0 (SimConnect: 10.0.61242.0)

1749094 Initialising SimConnect data requests now

1749094 FSUIPC Menu entry added

1749156 C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\FSUIPC Autosaved.FLT

1751953 System time = 07/01/2010 21:30:28, Simulator time = 21:23:34 (03:23Z)

1884234 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 134 secs = 17.3 fps

1891531 System time = 07/01/2010 21:32:47, Simulator time = 21:25:28 (03:25Z)

1891531 *** FSUIPC log file being closed

Average frame rate for running time of 1445 secs = 17.8 fps

Memory managed: 174 Allocs, 174 Freed

********* FSUIPC Log file closed ***********

____________________________________________________

FSUIPC ini

[General]

UpdatedByVersion=4561

History=GMFCNR1309MPYSJ9R5XIM

MouseWheelTrim=No

MouseWheelTrimSpeed=1

FixControlAccel=No

FixMachSpeedBug=No

VisibilityOptions=No

OneCloudLayer=No

CloudTurbulence=No

CloudIcing=No

GenerateCirrus=Yes

SuppressCloudTurbulence=No

MaxIce=-4

MinIce=-4

UpperWindGusts=No

SuppressWindTurbulence=No

SuppressWindVariance=No

WindTurbulence=No

TurbulenceRate=1.0,5.0

TurbulenceDivisor=20,20,40,40

SuppressAllGusts=No

MaxSurfaceWind=0

WindLimitLevel=200

WindDiscardLevel=400

WindAjustAltitude=No

WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000

SmoothBySimTime=No

WindSmoothing=Yes

WindSmoothness=2

WindSmoothAirborneOnly=Yes

PressureSmoothness=0

TemperatureSmoothness=0

DisconnTrimForAP=No

ZeroElevForAPAlt=No

ThrottleSyncAll=No

WhiteMessages=No

ShowPMcontrols=No

SpoilerIncrement=512

MagicBattery=No

RudderSpikeRemoval=No

ElevatorSpikeRemoval=No

AileronSpikeRemoval=No

ReversedElevatorTrim=No

ClockSync=No

ClockSyncMins=5

ClearWeatherDynamics=No

OwnWeatherChanges=Yes

TimeForSelect=4

LoadFlightMenu=No

LoadPlanMenu=No

PauseAfterCrash=No

SaveDataWithFlights=No

ZapSound=firework

ShortAircraftNameOk=No

UseProfiles=No

TCASid=Flight

TCASrange=40

AxisCalibration=No

DirectAxesToCalibs=No

ShowMultilineWindow=Yes

SuppressSingleline=No

SuppressMultilineFS=No

AxisIntercepts=No

WeatherReadFactor=2

WeatherRewriteSeconds=1

CustomWeatherModify=No

SimConnectStallTime=1

BrakeReleaseThreshold=75

DontResetAxes=No

Console=No

[JoyNames]

AutoAssignLetters=No

1=CH FLIGHT SIM YOKE USB

2=CH PRO PEDALS USB

[buttons]

ButtonRepeat=20,10

1=R1,0,C1001,0

2=U1,0,C1002,0

3=R1,1,C1068,0

4=U1,1,C1069,0

[AutoSave]

AutoSaveEnabled=Yes

Interval=60

Files=10

SaveOnGround=No

AlsoSave=FSUIPC Autosaved

AlsoInterval=60

Next=1

[GPSout]

GPSoutEnabled=No

Port=COM1

Speed=4800

Interval=2000

PosTo6Decimal=No

Sentences=

[GPSout2]

GPSoutEnabled=No

Port=

Speed=4800

Interval=2000

PosTo6Decimal=No

Sentences=

[WideServer]

WideFSenabled=Yes

__________________________________________________________________

FSX config

[Weather]

WindshieldPrecipitationEffects=1

MinGustTime=10

MaxGustTime=500

MinGustRampSpeed=1

MaxGustRampSpeed=200

MinVarTime=5

MaxVarTime=50

MinVarRampSpeed=10

MaxVarRampSpeed=75

TurbulenceScale=1.000000

WeatherServerAddress=fs2k.zone.com

WeatherServerPort=80

WeatherGraphDataInDialog=0

AdjustForMagVarInDialog=1

DynamicWeather=0

DownloadWindsAloft=1

DisableTurbulence=0

CLOUD_DRAW_DISTANCE=4

DETAILED_CLOUDS=1

CLOUD_COVERAGE_DENSITY=6

THERMAL_VISUALS=0

[Pete Dowson]

Winds Aloft sent to FSX by either ActiveSky X or VATSIM weather don't turn out to be what is being sent. At any given altitude, the winds I should be realizing are dramatically different, often accompanied by sudden wind shifts of up to 180 degrees and big windspeed changes.

Yes, that is a well known bug in FSX's weather system. Actually the same bug is in FS9 as well, but in that case FSUIPC manages to overcome it. In FSX it isn't always successful, though it does try. The bug is in the way FS tries to interpolate the weather at the aircraft from what should be the three weather stations in its triangular area. What happens is that often one of the triangle vertices is a weather station many hundreds of miles away with completely different weather.

There is another, extra, bug in FSX which makes it worse than FS9. When weather is set via the SimConnect interface (which is the only way known for FSX), the upper wind and temperature layers get into a right mess, getting cduplicated and triplicated, sometimes with layers only a few metres apart. This plays terrible havoc with any wind and temperature progression through the altitudes.

To cover the basics, here is my current FSUIPC ini file and the weather section of my FSX config file. And yes, I have FSX set to User Defined Weather.

If you are having weather set by ActiveSky or an on-line ATC program, your FSX weather mode is not relevant. As soon as they start setting the weather it changes to "Custom" mode, and they are then in charge, or at least in charge as much as they are allowed with SimConnect which doesn't offer the same degree of control as FSUIPC3 does for previous versions of FS.

I currently use ASA rather than ASX, and it does manage to overcome some of the problems a little better than ASX, but they are still there. The unfortunate thing was that Microsoft knew about these problems before the FS team's demise, but apparently couldn't work out how to fix them after the young lady responsible for the weather system design had left the team. I believe they were in the process of re-writing the weather handling altogether for FSXI.

One way ASA does get around the problem is by what it calls "DWC" (Direct Wind Control). This is actually a mode which sets FSX into Global Weather mode. Global weather mode was a facility added to FSX for flight training purposes. It makes the weather fixed and the same all over the world. This then prevents any problems with interpolation or layer build-up. ASA then modifies that global weather as you fly. The only problem with that is when using programs like Radar Contact to obtain ATIS weather information for destinations -- obviously, if it asks FS, it gets the same weather as at the aircraft. Same goes for ATC and AI assigned runways, though I think ASA has a facility to lock to the destination airport weather far enough out for that to be sorted.

There's really no perfect answer. Over the three years and a bit of FSX's life so far it has become a pretty well known problem and folks just live with it, I guess.

Regards

Pete

[MB327]

Pete,

That is totally the most honest and complete answer, by far, I have gotten from anyone on this subject. Thank you for the detailed response.

At least now I can quit chasing this thing and either deal with it or bump up from ASX to ASA and see how much better it might get. From my point of view, the biggest issue is for those doing on-line flights, particularly group flights. Not having uniform winds cause havoc for the pilots and controllers trying to maintain separation between same direction traffic. Since we can't expect everyone to use a commercial weather source, we will just have to "live with it."

Thanks,

Mike

[Pete Dowson]

From my point of view, the biggest issue is for those doing on-line flights, particularly group flights. Not having uniform winds cause havoc for the pilots and controllers trying to maintain separation between same direction traffic. Since we can't expect everyone to use a commercial weather source, we will just have to "live with it."

For on-line flights it could be well worthwhile moving to ASA and enabling the Direct Wind Control (DWC) -- i.e. global weather. You don't need to worry about the ATIS for airports being wrong in FS because you will presumably have "real" ATIS from the on-line server. And you don't need to worry about wrongly assigned runways because your on-line ATC are in control of that too.

In fact if the on-line linking program (Squawkbox or FSInn or whatever) is able to provide the weather inputs into FSX it would probably be a good idea if the implementers were to use the SimConnect global weather mode themselves. If they don't have that option, maybe someone should suggest it?

Good flying!

Regards

Pete

[gulf5]

Although this is a fairly old topic, maybe someone could point me to a workaround for my problem, caused by the same issue, described in this topic...

When flying f.e. EHAM -> EGGW I suffer stress crashes because of sudden wind changes at high altitudes. Cruising my Embraer at FL260 at around 300kts the wind changes suddenly, gearing me up to a bit less than 360 sometimes up to almost 400kts, depending on the weather situation. Of course this is a major overspeed situation, causing my aircraft to crash. In FSX I tried to disable the "aircraft stress causes damage"-option, but probably FSPassenger keeps this setting alive and kicking... I was hoping anyone, maybe Pete via his FSUIPC is able to figure out how we might be able to at least make the differences between 2 wind situations smaller, to keep our aircraft flying, instead of crashing...

Btw, real world weather in my case is regulated via REX.

[Pete Dowson]

Although this is a fairly old topic, maybe someone could point me to a workaround for my problem

I've answered this at length just a little earlier in this thread, which isn't actually that old (although of course the FSX problem is over three years old). Please do go back and read through it. I don't think I can add anything else at all. I said it all the other day.

Btw, real world weather in my case is regulated via REX.

Maybe that makes it worse? Sorry, but I don't know. I use REX for graphics, but I've always used ActiveSky for the weather -- ASV6.5 then ASX and now ASA, along with FSUIPC4's wind smoothing option. I never have an overstressed aircraft, but there are still occasional severe windshifts, but mostly at low altitudes with low wind speeds.

Regards

Pete

[HoratioWondersocks]

The only way I have managed to control the wild wind changes you experience with the default real world weather download option in FS9 is to use Activesky,I don't have a registered copy of FSUIPC,but even so using the freeware version and ASKY I do not get those ridiculous wind shifts and consequent rapid drops/increases in air speed that the default weather engine seems to produce,however much as i like ASKY and use it most of the time I do like the speed and simplicity of the default fs9 weather when I wanted a quick hit for an equally quick flight.

PS I also tried FSMetar(freeware) but using that program did not stop the wild wind changes(presumably as FSMetar seems to be a metar down loader only and still uses the default weather engine to process the weather info).At this moment ASKY seems to be the only option if you don't want your 747 landing on its back occasionally or your Cessna doing impromptu barrel rolls/loops etc from time to time :D

Andy

PS I did manage to find a freeware download (AVSIM/FScom)of many more weather themes to add to the default FS9 themes which are a good substitute if a quick flt is on the boards.The themes don't seem to suffer from wild wind problems.

[HoratioWondersocks]

Good heavens I posted in the wrong forum.Apologies

Andy

[gtjoha]

Yes, that is a well known bug in FSX's weather system. Actually the same bug is in FS9 as well, but in that case FSUIPC manages to overcome it. In FSX it isn't always successful, though it does try. The bug is in the way FS tries to interpolate the weather at the aircraft from what should be the three weather stations in its triangular area. What happens is that often one of the triangle vertices is a weather station many hundreds of miles away with completely different weather.

There is another, extra, bug in FSX which makes it worse than FS9. When weather is set via the SimConnect interface (which is the only way known for FSX), the upper wind and temperature layers get into a right mess, getting cduplicated and triplicated, sometimes with layers only a few metres apart. This plays terrible havoc with any wind and temperature progression through the altitudes.

If you are having weather set by ActiveSky or an on-line ATC program, your FSX weather mode is not relevant. As soon as they start setting the weather it changes to "Custom" mode, and they are then in charge, or at least in charge as much as they are allowed with SimConnect which doesn't offer the same degree of control as FSUIPC3 does for previous versions of FS.

I currently use ASA rather than ASX, and it does manage to overcome some of the problems a little better than ASX, but they are still there. The unfortunate thing was that Microsoft knew about these problems before the FS team's demise, but apparently couldn't work out how to fix them after the young lady responsible for the weather system design had left the team. I believe they were in the process of re-writing the weather handling altogether for FSXI.

One way ASA does get around the problem is by what it calls "DWC" (Direct Wind Control). This is actually a mode which sets FSX into Global Weather mode. Global weather mode was a facility added to FSX for flight training purposes. It makes the weather fixed and the same all over the world. This then prevents any problems with interpolation or layer build-up. ASA then modifies that global weather as you fly. The only problem with that is when using programs like Radar Contact to obtain ATIS weather information for destinations -- obviously, if it asks FS, it gets the same weather as at the aircraft. Same goes for ATC and AI assigned runways, though I think ASA has a facility to lock to the destination airport weather far enough out for that to be sorted.

There's really no perfect answer. Over the three years and a bit of FSX's life so far it has become a pretty well known problem and folks just live with it, I guess.

Regards

Pete

Hi Pete,

and thanks for the wonderful explenation, this has been bugging me as well for quite some time, and has elevated my blood pressure surely for good.

It's been some time since your post, so I am not sure if you get this, but I'll try...

I don't know how the wind smoothing option of your FSUIPC works, but with ASE I see that it has to set global weather (as you say above), in order to

smooth the winds. I can say the wind changes are about 1 deg. pr. second, so there are no sudden wind shifts for the aircraft. Though, I don't really

like it when all the weather around me suddenly changes totally for every new reporting station I pass...

Should it not be possible to have a program like ASE (or FSUIPC) recognizing sudden wind shifts, and distribute the change over say 1 minute's time?

The global weather "solution" seems like giving up one thing to get another, and it is impossible to get both..

Winds shifts can occur quite more frequently than one minute, but I guess it would be sort of an "average" (the distribution), which

should be somewhat the correct value..?

I really have now idea, I am no programmer... Just needed to "air" my thoughts :)

How does your FSUIPC do it? And where can I find a page to tell me other benefits of your program? I felt buing it just for the wind

smoothing option was overdoing it maybe.. :)

Actually, right now these days I am corresponding with microsoft about the problem, and they seem to have no idea at all about this

problem...(which I find really wierd). Actually the tried to call me today, but I was at dinner... So maybe I'll hear from them tomorrow..

Will be quite interesting to hear what they have to say... :)

Anyway.. Merry christmas :)

Greetings from Norway

Geir - ATPL student

[SteveW]

Hi,

Something new has popped up; Ideal Flight does a good job of winds aloft, overcomes the problems, and even creates jetstreams and routes to cruise them:

http://codelegend.com/idealflight/

Regards;

Steve

[Pete Dowson]

Something new has popped up; Ideal Flight does a good job of winds aloft, overcomes the problems, and even creates jetstreams and routes to cruise them:

http://codelegend.com/idealflight/

Not sure what this is about, I cannot get that link to come up with anything. It times out all the time.

Regards

Pete

[SteveW]

Not sure what this is about, I cannot get that link to come up with anything. It times out all the time.

Regards

Pete

You are right Pete, server seems to be on a slow down. I just got on, it should be OK now.

Steve

[Pete Dowson]

You are right Pete, server seems to be on a slow down. I just got on, it should be OK now.

Yes, thanks. Looks interesting.

Regards

Pete

[SteveW]

Yes, thanks. Looks interesting.

Regards

Pete

I found there is definitely a "proper way" to succeed with winds in FSX, Microsoft have no worries; all aspects of FSX weather work extremely well, its all about how it’s done. You will not find the nasty transitions in Ideal Flight weather, even when ascending into a 100knt jetstream.

Ideal Flight generates a global weather simulation, introduces its own weather station patterns, sets up proper merging routines, smooth’s wind transitions, and creates complex visibility. Realistic sky views are computed for cloudbase/temperature/dewpoint/time of day/time of year/location and so on.

IF also has the most advanced auto flight planner with TOC/TOD, which also accepts any .PLN, a comprehensive briefing, and even in-flight functions like Goto Next Waypoint, but that’s another story…

Best regards;

Steve

Edited April 28, 2011 by SteveW

[SteveW]

There was one other question about network play:

If you and your friend both use ideal Flight with the same settings, you each get exactly the same weather, as you are at exactly the same date and time. Same clouds in the same place, same winds, same turbulence, same temperature and so on.

Best regards;

Steve

[SteveW]

You see, with “IF”; You don’t just get a giant anvil CB banging away on the horizon, they emerge, or dissipate, due to the conditions. You won’t see a different view as you move through cells, but you can still notice slight transitions between cells sometimes, but only very slight, and only sometimes. IF can use REX or any other textures. Route ETA and fuel computed for the weather forecast, even for any plan you drop onto IF. IF also introduces seamless thermal and deflected air currents to any weather engine.

FSX weather works!

All the best;

Steve

[Ian P]

This is getting worryingly like someone seeking free advertising, Steve... Do you have any relationship to the development team of that tool? ;)

Ian P.

[SteveW]

This is getting worryingly like someone seeking free advertising, Steve... Do you have any relationship to the development team of that tool? ;)

Ian P.

Yes I am the coder of IF, but this thread is about techniques.

What I am saying is that the winds problem is nothing to do with FSUIPC, it is to do with how metars are implemented and you can check it out by running IF.

Sorry for sounding over enthusiastic.

Regards;

Steve

[Ian P]

Don't panic Steve, it's just always best when someone is the developer of software if they say so at the outset... It prevents problems later if someone starts asking questions and throwing around accusations of impropriety (which happens quite a lot in this hobby/industry).

Ian P.

[SteveW]

Don't panic Steve, it's just always best when someone is the developer of software if they say so at the outset... It prevents problems later if someone starts asking questions and throwing around accusations of impropriety (which happens quite a lot in this hobby/industry).

Ian P.

Yes, quite right, I should have thought of that.

A little bit more on technique...

There is a note in the FSX SDK that suggests an external program *will* be required to run FSX weather properly.

I also found it is no good to just send a set of weather stations each a metar. A more complex system is required, there are possibly several ways to do it, IF takes one approach.

Best regards;

Steve