Controller Cards

[zswobbie1]

I read in one of the previous post that FSUIPC 3 only supports 6 axis.

We are building a Shackleton Sim using FS9. We are using the original throttle quadrant linking 4x sliders for throttle & 4x for boost. We have ordered 2x BU0836X joystick controllers for this lot. My idea was to have each board controlling 4x sliders, all controlled by FSUIPC. We also want to put pitch, roll & yaw pots onto the boards as well. Have we done the right thing?

I am still waiting to be activated on the www.leobodnar.com forums (after 2 weeks) so I thought I can ask here.

Pete, thanks for the mouse wheel trim settings that was impimented some time ago.

[Pete Dowson]

I read in one of the previous post that FSUIPC 3 only supports 6 axis.

FSUIPC3 supports 6 axes on up to 16 joysticks, so that's 96 all together. This is a limitation of the Windows "joy" API.

FSUIPC4 was written to use DirectInput, which supports 8 axes on each joystick.

We are building a Shackleton Sim using FS9. We are using the original throttle quadrant linking 4x sliders for throttle & 4x for boost. We have ordered 2x BU0836X joystick controllers for this lot. My idea was to have each board controlling 4x sliders, all controlled by FSUIPC. We also want to put pitch, roll & yaw pots onto the boards as well. Have we done the right thing?

Should be okay. Each joystick controller will presumably have its own connection to the PC and look like a separate device. You could have 16 such boards with 6 analogue axes on each, as well as a 360 degree POV and 32 buttons each.

Regards

Pete

[zswobbie1]

Thanks Pete, Whew, I thought I made a mess up. Waiting for the cards to arrive. Anyway, to pre-empt any calibration problems - We made a template to hold 4x sliders next to each other. Would there be a problem in calibrating if the sliders are slightly different in mounting hights (they are the same length) we did have some mounting problems to get them exactly the same. Will we be able to compensate the hight difference in calibrating?

Robin (Cape Town, South Africa)

[Pete Dowson]

Would there be a problem in calibrating if the sliders are slightly different in mounting hights (they are the same length) we did have some mounting problems to get them exactly the same. Will we be able to compensate the hight difference in calibrating?

Calibration is a software process. It's not related to the size, height or shape of the levers. It's just a matter of saying "this readable position means X, that readable position means Y".

Pete

[zswobbie1]

Ok, happy with that, should I not re-align the pots so they are physically in the same hight position? Or am I correct in saying that when I callibrate, I set the start & end positions by software, so the mounting hights are irrelevant. If the mounting hights of the 4 pots are out of allignment, during calibration, I can still get them all synced? (or have I asked you the same thing twice? - sorry)

[Pete Dowson]

Ok, happy with that, should I not re-align the pots so they are physically in the same hight position? Or am I correct in saying that when I callibrate, I set the start & end positions by software, so the mounting hights are irrelevant. If the mounting hights of the 4 pots are out of allignment, during calibration, I can still get them all synced? (or have I asked you the same thing twice? - sorry)

I repeat. The physical alignment is up to you, it is not a software function. If you mean "can I hold them all in one hand and move them together", I don't know, as it depends on how wide they are and how big your hand is, doesn't it? If you mean can you get the same values from them at different points, then, yes, you can sync at a number of points along the travel, however many you need. Please browse through the FSUIPC documentation which is free to read and you'll see what facilities there are.

Pete

[zswobbie1]

Perfect, I have 120 odd pages to study. The more I read em the more I find I can do.

Thanks for your help. Will let you know how it all works out.

[Pete Dowson]

Perfect, I have 120 odd pages to study.

:o The calibration facilities, which include mention of the sync options, are a small fraction of all that. The contents page will tell you which page to go to.

Pete

[zswobbie1]

Thanks, pages 48-52 will be my bible.

Lastly, Pete, maybe I must look & read harder, can I use toggle switches instead of push switches?

[Pete Dowson]

Lastly, Pete, maybe I must look & read harder, can I use toggle switches instead of push switches?

Of course. When assigning, FSUIPC will only see them when they go from "off" to "on", but you can program both the on (= press) and off (= release) action just the same as for push buttons. Same for rotaries that send "on off on off" pulses.

Pete

[zswobbie1]

Ok. I thought I would need another board to convert the toggle into a pulse. I then was under the mistaken impression that I can only use pulse (momentary) type switches instead of the push-on push again off type. So, once again, FSUIPC will do it for me...more reading! I am using sprung toggles & did not realize I can use on-off types.

[Pete Dowson]

Ok. I thought I would need another board to convert the toggle into a pulse. I then was under the mistaken impression that I can only use pulse (momentary) type switches instead of the push-on push again off type. So, once again, FSUIPC will do it for me...more reading! I am using sprung toggles & did not realize I can use on-off types.

It isn't really an FSUIPC function. The things Windows calls "Buttons" are merely things it detects as pressed or not pressed. The electrics involved are simply a connection made by the button. Since windows can detect a button being pressed or released (because the "pressed" indication comes on or off), whether the button is held pressed by a finger or by the spring or latch in a switch is not only irrelevant, but unknown to it.

A true momentary switch which only gives a quick on-off pulse is rare in this area, especially if the software or hardware is polling, because the short-loved pulse may be missed altogether. Not only that, but it is less useful than an ordinary press-to-make button because you cannot use it to indicate things to be done whilst it is held pressed, like repeating an incremental action.

Rotaries tend to produce pulses, and turning those too fast will create many short pulses many of which would be missed.

Pete

[zswobbie1]

Hi Pete,

Conected everything & came up with a few issues, none of them FSUIPC related, but don't know where else to ask. I am sure you are not up to speed with the 2x cards I have, but anyway..

All switches work fine. The cards have X, Y, Z, RX, RY, RX, Slider & Dial connections.

We have 4x throttles, 4x props & the usual elevator, airelon & rudders.

We are battling a bit to get all connected. Am I correct in connecting elevator, airelon & rudder to X, Y, Z on card , Trottles 1 to RX, 2 to RY, 3 to RZ & 4 to Slider? then Pitch to X, Y, Z, Z1 on card 2? or am I totally lost here.

I first put throttles on X,Y,Z,RX on card 1 (Pitch on the same on card 2)& all worked fine. Problems came with trying to connect the control serfaces, especially rudder, but I will sort that out in calibrating.

I do realize this is not the forum to get this kind of, but I am still waiting to be activated on Leo's forum.

Any ideas will be appreciated, even being shot down being in the wrong forum.

Robin

[Pete Dowson]

I am sure you are not up to speed with the 2x cards I have

I know nothing watsoever about them.

All switches work fine. The cards have X, Y, Z, RX, RY, RX, Slider & Dial connections.

Never heard of "dial". Is that a POV Hat type connection? The windows "joy" API supported by FSUIPC3 (and versions of FS before FS2002) supports 6 analogue axes and one POV. DirectInput supports 8 axes and either 2 or 4 POVs (I don't recall which. offhand).

If they are all analogue axes, to use all 8 you'd need to be running FSX or ESP and FSUIPC4 -- or else do your assignments in FS, not in FSUIPC.

We are battling a bit to get all connected. Am I correct in connecting elevator, airelon & rudder to X, Y, Z on card , Trottles 1 to RX, 2 to RY, 3 to RZ & 4 to Slider? then Pitch to X, Y, Z, Z1 on card 2? or am I totally lost here.

Apart from any POV implementation I don't think it matters much what you connect where, because you assign them in FS or FSUIPC accordingly. They are all just axes. But if you want to assign only in FSUIPC and you are running FS9 or before, two of the possible 8 axes won't be recognised. Just avoid connecting anything to those., or else assign everything in FS instead.

I first put throttles on X,Y,Z,RX on card 1 (Pitch on the same on card 2)& all worked fine. Problems came with trying to connect the control serfaces

Except for the POV, there should be no difference whatsoever. They are merely analogue axes supplying continuously variable values. Providing you see varying values when you move the control, that's all that matters.

Regards

Pete

[zswobbie1]

Dial is just another joystick input (from what I can gather. I

f I read you right, I must use FSUIPC to set up & calibrate 4x throttles & 4x Pitch, & use Flightsim assignments for elevator, airelons & rudder? So board 1 for 4x throttles & board 2 for 4x pitch, all set up & calibrated via FSUIPC, control surfaces assigned by FS9. Or everything via FS9?

Phew! Hope I am getting this right. I would hate to do pitch tru FS9 as I need prop feathering via FSUIPC

[zswobbie1]

Just a quicky, I was having visions of getting another controller card for the control surfaces, even hacking an old joystick to get the board. So, from what I understand, the boards I have are fine, just need to do re assigning.

[Pete Dowson]

Dial is just another joystick input (from what I can gather. I

So you have 8 axes altogether. you can use them all with FSX or ESP, through FS or FSUIPC assignments, but if you are using FS9 or earlier you can only use 6 if you choose FSUIPC. Which 6 I'm not sure. You'll need to test.

f I read you right, I must use FSUIPC to set up & calibrate 4x throttles & 4x Pitch, & use Flightsim assignments for elevator, airelons & rudder?

No, I never said anything like that!!! You can use FS for all assignments, or FSUIPC (for 6 per card on FSUIPC3, 8 per card on FSUIPC4). I really wouldn't try mixing them if I were you. The only sure way to avoid FS auto-reassigning is to completely disable the controllers in it.

BTW If you are using a prop or turboprop (hence I assume the need for the prop pitch controls), what about the 4x mixture or conditioning controls?

Hope I am getting this right. I would hate to do pitch tru FS9 as I need prop feathering via FSUIPC

Ouch! Sorry, but it seems you are very confused. How did that happen?

We were talking about assigning things, not calibrating them! You do not have to assign in FSUIPC to calibrate in FSUIPC!. You never have had to! The axis assignments were a much later addition to FSUIPC and were primarily intended to allow folks to have different assignments automatically selected (eg stick or yoke as appropriate) for different aircraft (not possible in FS without reloading), and also to allow multiple assignments to the same controls with automatic arbitration -- for dual pilot and copilot controls, for example. There are other tricks you can do with FSUIPC axis assignments too, but for straight-forward assignments there's absolutely nothing wrong with using FS for this.

Regards

Pete

[zswobbie1]

Sorry Pete, The Shackleton has auto mixture, so I do not need that functionallity.

I would like to use FSUIPC to assign & calibrate pitch (4x controls) because it gives me the feathering functionallity when calibrating. I will try the 4x throttles as well via FSUIPC (if not, via FS9) & control surfaces assigned via FS9.

So I have 4x throttle axis, 4x pitch, & the 3x control axis. All except 4x pitch, that I will asign thru FS9.

Hope I got it right now!

[Pete Dowson]

I would like to use FSUIPC to assign & calibrate pitch (4x controls) because it gives me the feathering functionallity when calibrating.

But, I repeat, you can calibrate in FSUIPC even if you assign in FS. Please re-read my previous message, especially the text in Big Red letters!

Hope I got it right now!

No. I do not recommend mixing things. Why do you want to assign ONLY the prop pitch via FSUIPC? What is it you cannot do with FS calibration and FS assignments? And if you are using 6 or less axes on eavch controller, why not do it all in FSUIPC if that's what you want?

I get the feeling you don't understand anything I'm saying, or that you are omitting something very significant somewhere! This exchange is getting rather futile! :-(

Pete

[zswobbie1]

Got it.

Assign everything in FS9, use FSUIPC for calibrating if required. Sorry Pete, I thought mistakenly that whatever I wanted to calibrate must be assigned in FSUIPC. I do apologise for my delay in understanding.

[zswobbie1]

Just a report back, all working OK.

The Shackleton flies again!

Throttle levers are at different physical levels to give the same thrust but will "sync" them. All in all, all systems go with just a bit of fine tuning & calibrating. Thanks to FSUIPC.

Thanks Pete for this great software.

[Pete Dowson]

Just a report back, all working OK.

Good!

Throttle levers are at different physical levels to give the same thrust but will "sync" them.

The calibration Tab offers a sync facility. You can set a number of positions which are all to have the same throttle value in FS -- it uses Throttle 1 as the measure, the yardstick, then matches the positions on the others for as many points as needed -- usually not more than 5 or 6 I've found are adequate. Then it simply interpolates between those points. It gives pretty good results. Try it.

Regards

Pete

[zswobbie1]

Thanks Pete, I found Sync in the manual & will do it on the weekend.

Then we should be done. Connecting all the sliders onto the cards has been a bit of a very time consuming effort.

Putting 4x throttles on X, Y, Z & RX on card 1 & 4x Pitch on card 2 worked perfectly but then we battled to get FS to see rudders, elevators & airelons no matter where we connected on the spare open slots on the cards. We connected, tested, swopped, pulled our hair out & tried again & finaly got thing right. We decided to give ourselves a break at 23:30 on Monday night as we ended up making mistakes, but we flew the darn thing!

I must emphasize that reading the manual over & over again sorts out 99.9% of all issues. The more we read, the more we find, & if we make a mess, we just edit the ini file & start over. Thaks for your patience & help.