flutter desappeared....but without buttoms

[lorenzoc3]

Hi Mr Pete ,

After many trials and a new general cleaning of keys in FSX, just to aviod the dual

assignement, I tell you the news of the moment or my latest discovery .

In this matter, please it is importanto to clarify that you must be sure that i am sure problem it is not caused from FSUICP

I ask you help just because you have more experience than me with FS and all which is around to it.

after configured, befor only the axes, one by one ,with FSuicp of course, i moved to settle the buttons with my Usb cards which allow 5 axexs each one and 24 buttoms.

I proceed button by buttom and test the FSX for eventual flutter. as soon i settle the first buttom flutter started again.

erased buttom and stopped flutter,.

the usb cards anyway are regular recognisìzed by Windows and by FSUICP as usb perioferal and on test all buttom and axexs are present and without interference.

I attached copy of INI.file regarding only one aircraft if you with you experiencde may found some the problem.

[General]

UpdatedByVersion=4600

History=52GWOU47KCE06TH12WPAI

MouseWheelTrim=No

MouseWheelTrimSpeed=1

JoystickTimeout=20

PollGFTQ6=Yes

BlankDisplays=No

FixControlAccel=No

FixMachSpeedBug=No

VisibilityOptions=No

OneCloudLayer=No

CloudTurbulence=No

CloudIcing=No

GenerateCirrus=No

SuppressCloudTurbulence=No

MaxIce=-4

MinIce=-1

UpperWindGusts=No

SuppressWindTurbulence=No

SuppressWindVariance=No

WindTurbulence=No

TurbulenceRate=1.0,5.0

TurbulenceDivisor=20,20,40,40

SuppressAllGusts=No

MaxSurfaceWind=0

WindLimitLevel=200

WindDiscardLevel=400

WindAjustAltitude=No

WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000

SmoothBySimTime=No

WindSmoothing=No

WindSmoothness=2

WindSmoothAirborneOnly=Yes

PressureSmoothness=0

TemperatureSmoothness=0

DisconnTrimForAP=No

ZeroElevForAPAlt=No

ThrottleSyncAll=No

WhiteMessages=No

ShowPMcontrols=No

SpoilerIncrement=512

MagicBattery=No

RudderSpikeRemoval=No

ElevatorSpikeRemoval=No

AileronSpikeRemoval=No

ReversedElevatorTrim=No

ClockSync=No

ClockSyncMins=5

ClearWeatherDynamics=No

OwnWeatherChanges=No

TimeForSelect=4

LoadFlightMenu=No

LoadPlanMenu=No

PauseAfterCrash=No

BrakeReleaseThreshold=75

SaveDataWithFlights=No

ZapSound=firework

ShortAircraftNameOk=No

UseProfiles=No

TCASid=Flight

TCASrange=40

AxisCalibration=No

DirectAxesToCalibs=No

ShowMultilineWindow=Yes

SuppressSingleline=No

SuppressMultilineFS=No

AxisIntercepts=No

DontResetAxes=No

WeatherReadFactor=2

WeatherRewriteSeconds=1

CustomWeatherModify=No

SimConnectStallTime=1

[JoyNames]

AutoAssignLetters=No

0=IOCa

0.GUID={D89EC0E0-FFC0-11DE-8002-444553540000}

1=IOCa

1.GUID={D89EC0E0-FFC0-11DE-8003-444553540000}

[buttons]

ButtonRepeat=20,10

[AutoSave]

AutoSaveEnabled=No

[GPSout]

GPSoutEnabled=No

Port=COM1

Speed=4800

Interval=2000

PosTo6Decimal=No

Sentences=

[GPSout2]

GPSoutEnabled=No

Port=

Speed=4800

Interval=2000

PosTo6Decimal=No

Sentences=

[WideServer]

WideFSenabled=Yes

[Axes.Beech King Air 350 Paint1]

0=0X,R0,F,66421,66424,0,0

1=0X,B,-127,0,65769,0

2=0X,B,0,127,65771,0

3=0Y,R0,F,66731,0,0,0

4=0Y,B,0,127,66277,0

5=0Y,B,-127,0,66276,0

6=0R,R0,F,66732,0,0,0

7=0R,B,0,127,66279,0

8=0R,B,-127,0,66278,0

9=0S,R0,F,66422,66425,0,0

10=0S,B,-127,0,65775,0

11=0S,B,0,127,65777,0

12=1X,R1,F,65763,0,0,0

13=1X,B,20,30,65686,0

14=1X,B,-10,20,65687,0

15=1X,B,30,60,65685,0

16=1Y,R1,F,65762,0,0,0

17=1Y,B,-127,-21,65684,0

18=1Y,B,20,127,65683,0

19=1Z,R1,F,65764,0,0,0

20=1Z,B,-5,5,65689,0

21=1Z,B,5,32,65690,0

22=1Z,B,-39,-5,65688,0

23=1R,R0,F,66420,0,0,0

24=1R,B,-126,42,66420,0

25=1S,R0,F,66423,0,0,0

26=1S,B,-127,56,66423,0

[JoystickCalibration.Beech King Air 350 Paint1]

AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes

ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes

ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes

ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=No

UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=66731

RudderTrimControl=66732

CowlFlaps1Control=66162

CowlFlaps2Control=66163

CowlFlaps3Control=66164

CowlFlaps4Control=66165

SteeringTillerControl=0

MaxSteerSpeed=60

Aileron=-10,25,25,60/8

Elevator=-127,0,0,127/8

Rudder=-41,3,3,34/24

Throttle1=-124,-47,-47,36

Throttle2=-122,-48,-48,50

Mixture1=-127,0,0,127/8

Mixture2=-127,0,0,127/8

PropPitch1=-127,0,0,127/8

PropPitch2=-127,0,0,127/8

Aileron Trim=-127,0,0,127

Rudder Trim=-127,-1,-1,127

[buttons.Beech King Air 350 Paint1]

12=P1,16,C66079,0

13=P1,17,C66080,0

14=P1,2,C65759,0

15=P1,5,C65758,0

16=R1,7,C65607,0

17=R1,6,C65615,0

18=P0,7,C65909,0

19=P0,6,C65908,0

20=P0,5,C66432,0

21=P0,10,C65907,0

22=P0,0,C65911,0

23=P0,3,C65567,0

24=P0,1,C66483,0

25=P0,11,C65794,0

26=P0,12,C65795,0

27=P0,4,C66615,0

28=P0,2,C66616,0

29=P1,4,C66609,0

30=P1,21,C66617,0

31=P1,20,C66612,0

32=P1,19,C66604,0

33=P1,18,C66620,0

34=P1,3,C66605,0

35=P1,1,C66625,0

36=P1,0,C66624,0

37=P1,23,C66626,0

38=P1,22,C66623,0

Ciao Mr Pete

[Francois Dumas]

Please post in the appropriate forum. I moved it for you this time..... F.

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Mr Pete ,

After many trials and a new general cleaning of keys in FSX, just to aviod the dual

assignement, I tell you the news of the moment or my latest discovery .

Shouldn't this have been added to your older thread about the same subject? It would have been clearer had you done so.

after configured, befor only the axes, one by one ,with FSuicp of course, i moved to settle the buttons with my Usb cards which allow 5 axexs each one and 24 buttoms.

I proceed button by buttom and test the FSX for eventual flutter. as soon i settle the first buttom flutter started again.

erased buttom and stopped flutter

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that assigning one button (to what?) makes all of your axes flutter?

[EDIT AFTER READING MORE] This could be a result of using RAW mode on analogue inputs -- the button scanning probably interferes electrically with the analogue readings on the axes. In RAW mode you are bypassing all of the joystick driver and Windows efforts to give correct readings. RAW mode is used for programmable digital inputs.

I attached copy of INI.file regarding only one aircraft if you with you experiencde may found some the problem.

Can you explain what it is you are trying to do with your axis assignments in FSUIPC? Look at this one example:

0=0X,R0,F,66421,66424,0,0

1=0X,B,-127,0,65769,0

2=0X,B,0,127,65771,0

First of all, you have selected "RAW" mode. WHY? That is really only ever useful for software-controlled axes, like those on EPIC cards, used to set things like radio frequencies, altitudes and headings, where the value being assigned to those things needs to be unmolested. Never try using RAW unless you have a really good and understood reason!

That could easily be the first cause of your problems. With RAW mode your incoming values are bypassing Windows and driver calibrations and ignoring all smoothing throughout. Furthermore they limit the incoming values to a range of 0 to 255 or -127 to +127, whereas FS needs -16384 to +16383 for most axes. Normally read and processed axes give that sort of range, especially after correct calibration.

It is also possible that your devices are not limiting the RAW values they send to 0-255. If they send a value which exceeds the 8 bits for RAW mode the upper bits will be lost. So a value increasing from 255 to 256 will go from 255 to 0 in one little movement or flutter. When using a programmable source of values, like an EPIC card, the software controlling the values would be limiting the values.

Worse, the "Delta" of 0 or 1 will make every little jitter on the axes amplify to quite large movements -- with only 255 maximum values, a real flutter of 1 on your axes will translate into a change of 128.

Second, you've assigned this axis to both controls 66421 and 66424 (Axis Propeller1 and 2), which is fine, but then you ALSO used the right-hand zone assignments facility to assign control 65769 (Prop pitch Incr) to the range -127 to 0, and 65771 (Prop pitch Decr) to the upper range (0 to 127). WHY? What on Earth do you think that will accomplish? Everything appears to be in conflict!

This analysis appears to apply to every single axis you've assigned!

To be honest I cannot see any sensible purpose in anything you've done in the axis assignments. You seem to have gone overboard in using it in the most non-standard and peculiar way. I would suggest that your best solution would be to delete all of the Axis assignments from the INI file and start again. Just because I provide facilities for doing strange or unusual things, it doesn't mean they have to be used, and especially not without understanding the consequences. Please just follow the simple paths as explained and illustrated in the documentation.

You should also delete all of the JoystickCalibration sections and re-calibrate all axes, because the current settings are based on that -127 to +127 range.

Don't forget to delete everything BEFORE loading FS, not whilst FS is running.

regards

Pete

[lorenzoc3]

Hi Mr Pete . tks for your long answer and analysis to my problem not yet solved-

I'll try to answer as best I can :

1) Yes i am saying that assigning one buttom ( panel 2/3/4/toggle pushback , view mode, flight map etc... wtc.. ) makes a flutter on the axes ,but now not before tha one week ago.

2) It is possible that the button scanning probably interferes electrically with the analogue readings on the axes. I have a problem but not dected until know and as far as i know not with your FSUICP .

3) I have a programmable digital inputs ( Usb Cards with 10 axes assigned with Raw mode since abt 4/5 years , together with 20 switches with both cards for different actions) whay only now the flutter ???

4) I have assigned 66421 and 424 axis propeller 1 and 2 - than on right-hand zone assignments facility the prop pitch incr and Decr , for adjusting the pitch of the propellers on fly , and never i got conflict.

5) this has been done also for mixture : in the left t side of FSUICP windows " sento to MSFX like a ..... axis mixture 1 set

and axis mixture 2 set , than on right side , incr and decr mixture . without problem antill arriving a flutter i dont know from where.

6) i will do what you say to clea again but i am shore without success.

I do not know how to thank you for your help

[Pete Dowson]

2) It is possible that the button scanning probably interferes electrically with the analogue readings on the axes.

Yes. I really can't think of any other explanation.

3) I have a programmable digital inputs ( Usb Cards with 10 axes assigned with Raw mode since abt 4/5 years , together with 20 switches with both cards for different actions)

I see. Sorry, I didn't know they were programmable. RAW mode is okay if you do have precise control.

whay only now the flutter ???

I don't know. What is different?

Note that in FSUIPC3 I use the Windows "joy" interface for both axis and button scanning. In FSUIPC4 I used DirectInput for axis scanning and the "joy" interface for button scanning until recently -- 4.60 uses DirectInput for both. I changed because some devices gave problems when using the different interfaces.

Regards

Pete

[lorenzoc3]

last resort is to format hard drive and install everything again, hoping that the problem does not return as i have not seen the cause.

i have to ask sorry to you for the disturb which i gave to you and to send you unthousand of tks for your help and for

your effirts. one thing is sure , it is not caused by FSUIPC that i use since the previuos version of 4.0 without problem.

tks and regards

lorenzo

[Pete Dowson]

last resort is to format hard drive and install everything again, hoping that the problem does not return as i have not seen the cause.

Before you do that, don't you think we ought to find out whether this change, in how FSUIPC4 uses Windows APIs, made the difference?

Note that in FSUIPC3 I use the Windows "joy" interface for both axis and button scanning. In FSUIPC4 I used DirectInput for axis scanning and the "joy" interface for button scanning until recently -- 4.60 uses DirectInput for both. I changed because some devices gave problems when using the different interfaces.

it is not caused by FSUIPC that i use since the previuos version of 4.0 without problem.

This is why I am concerned about the above change in FSUIPC. What was the previous version you used? Do you still have it?

This is the note of the relevant change, taken from the FSUIPC4 History document, in the section about 4.60:

• The use of the Windows "joy" API for button scanning whilst using DirectInput for axes seems to create weird hanging problems in Windows 7 (at least in the 64-bit version, untested in the 32-bit version), especially if FSX is run in any "compatibility mode". It looks like there's a bug in the Windows code for the "joyGetPosEx" function which is causing this. Now the use of this function has been replaced by simply using a copy of the button status obtained by the axis scanner, called specifically to accomplish this if it isn't already activated.

If it worked okay before 4.60 then I'm concerned that the problem is related to that change. So please do NOT do anything drastic yet. Let me know which version it worked with. I'll look here to see what might be happening. Maybe I have to do something explicit in my calls to Windows to make RAW mode stay stable.

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced it may be a RAW mode problem which I've overlooked in the recent changes.

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced it may be a RAW mode problem which I've overlooked in the recent changes.

Please download this version:

http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/FSUIPC4605.zip

Just copy the FSUIPC4.DLL inside into your FSX Modules folder.

Please let me know if that helps. I've made the button and axis scanning one call to Windows -- previously it was two separate calls per cycle. I'm thinking now that possible the call for button values and the call for axis values interfere with each other when the latter is using "RAW" mode. It's probably a timing thing -- Raw mode will be bypassing a lot of stuff.

Regards

Pete

[lorenzoc3]

RE.: YOUR VERY FAST ANSWER THU APR 22 12.24 pm

Not yet started to format. ok i will stop with this.

i dont make any drastic opoeration yet

as befor said, i have used all your version since FS2004 than now with FSX from the 3.0 to 4.6 for fsx . on 2007 i changed version from 2004 to FSX and sent to you an mail asking for new key rememberes ?? ( it is still on my post)

actually i have only this latter version, whit fsx , because , owing to the flutter ,i erased all hold version immaging a conflict.

I erased all file .ini too avoid any conflict and restart the calibration, but nothing to do.

You say that may be the problem is the RAW mode of the new version ok

as you instructde i downloaded alredy the version as on your link ,sent to me ,and after installed and programmed axis and buttom, for one aircraft, i return to you.

Tks Mr Pete

regards

lorenzo

[lorenzoc3]

Hi Mr Pete, i forgot to say you one important thing. whe i open the FSX all axes are stopped owing the delta value , which is alwais to 256 for all axex. after i move them and click on delta switch i reduce value to one or "0" ziro . may be important ???

ciao

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Mr Pete, i forgot to say you one important thing. whe i open the FSX all axes are stopped owing the delta value , which is alwais to 256 for all axex. after i move them and click on delta switch i reduce value to one or "0" ziro . may be important ???

No, not relevant. The axes aren't really "stopped". Because your input has a range of 256 the obviously all changes will be ignored with a Delta of 256. However, I thought the Delta automatically changed to 1 when RAW is selected. Isn't it doing that? Maybe I haven't done that?

Regards

Pete

[lorenzoc3]

You have done to much Dear Peter. the problem is solved and i am very happy and very grateful to you for you kind assistance and help.

anyway for you guidance, the value of 250 appears on RAW too, and only after mooving axes it go to 1 or 0

unrtill know i configured two aircraft with all axes and switch and all seems to be ok.

I hope to revert only to say good bay to you

regards and tks again Mr Pete

lorenzo

[Pete Dowson]

You have done to much Dear Peter. the problem is solved

Ah, good!

anyway for you guidance, the value of 250 appears on RAW too, and only after mooving axes it go to 1 or 0

Hmmm. At least they do change. I'll check to see what might be wrong. Thanks!

Regards

Pete

[lorenzoc3]

Always tks to you. untill now it is ok - in case of average i will inform yoy at once.

by Mr Pete

regards lorenzo