Cockpit stick moves - ailerons don't - intermittent

[tacomasailor]

Vista32 Home Premium

FSX/Acceleration

FSUIPC 4.60a registered

Saitek ST290Pro Joystick

CH Pro Pedals

No axes is assigned in FSX for either game controller but the controllers are enabled in FSX. Sensitivity is max and Null is minimum in FSX.

Joystick was working perfectly in FSX while engaged in default flight. Reloaded default flight, which is Stock MS Piper Cub cold and dark on runway. I test the flight controls.

Movement of joystick moves VC stick & cables for ailerons and rudder and VC throttle lever as appropriate. Ailerons on wing DO MOVE and aircraft while in flight does not respond to VC stick movement in aileron axis.

The elevator works normally.

Throttle (controlled by ST290) works normally

Rudder works normally.

Problem occurs in Stock MS aircraft, in payware, shareware, freeware aircraft - I've seen this problem in dozens of aircraft.

Movement of joystick in X axis (as above) results in the following:

FSUIPC Axis Assignment (AA) Rescan shows Joy #2 Axis X assigned to Aileron Set “Send to FS as normal axis.” AA In/Out values show linear response to joystick movement in AA - 16384 to +16383 with 0 as the center in AA. X axis delta set at 254.

FSUIPC Joystick Calibration (JC) show NO In or Out for Ailerons.

FSUIPC Console log shows no data for movement of stick in X axis.

FSUIPC.ini shows the following before starting FSX AND after stopping FSX:

[JoyNames]

AutoAssignLetters=No

0=CH Flight Sim Yoke USB

0.GUID={57841C80-AC5F-11DE-8004-444553540000}

1=CH Pro Pedals USB

1.GUID={57841C80-AC5F-11DE-8003-444553540000}

2=Saitek ST290 Pro

2.GUID={7C034370-B339-11DE-8001-444553540000}

[buttons]

ButtonRepeat=20,10

[AutoSave]

AutoSaveEnabled=No

[GPSout]

GPSoutEnabled=No

[GPSout2]

GPSoutEnabled=No

[WideServer]

WideFSenabled=Yes

[Axes]

0=0X,256,F,65695,0,0,0

1=0Y,256,F,65762,0,0,0

2=0Z,256,F,66420,66423,66426,0

3=0R,256,F,66421,66424,66427,0

4=0V,256,F,66422,66425,66428,0

5=1X,2048,F,66387,0,0,0

6=1Y,2048,F,66388,0,0,0

7=1Z,780,F,65764,0,0,0

8=2X,256,F,65695,0,0,0

9=2Y,256,F,65762,0,0,0

10=2Z,256,F,65765,0,0,0

[JoystickCalibration]

AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes

ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes

ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes

ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes

SepRevsJetsOnly=No

ApplyHeloTrim=No

UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=No

ReverserControl=66292

Reverser1Control=66422

Reverser2Control=66425

Reverser3Control=66428

Reverser4Control=66431

MaxThrottleForReverser=256

AileronTrimControl=66731

RudderTrimControl=66732

CowlFlaps1Control=66162

CowlFlaps2Control=66163

CowlFlaps3Control=66164

CowlFlaps4Control=66165

SteeringTillerControl=0

MaxSteerSpeed=60

Throttle1=-16384,-512,512,16383

Throttle2=-16384,-512,512,16383

Throttle3=-16384,-512,512,16383

PropPitch1=-16384,0,512,16383

PropPitch2=-16384,0,512,16383

PropPitch3=-16384,0,512,16383

LeftBrake=15744,16380/24

RightBrake=-16123,16256/24

Aileron=-16380,-512,512,16380/8

Elevator=-16384,0,512,16159/8

Throttle=-16384,16383

Rudder=-15993,0,0,15488/8

I shutdown FSX (End Flight / Blue x in top right corner of Free Flight) and restart FSX and everything works as it should – all flight controls act normally!!

This has happened many times over the last six months. It happens with ONE of the three flight control surfaces (rudder, aileron, elevator) at a time. Sometimes the problem occurs while flying – e.g. suddenly the ailerons (or rudder or elevator) on wings don’t move even when stick in VC moves.

Summary:

- VC cockpit controls (Any aircraft) shows appropriate movement

- One of the three (aileron, rudder, elevator) do not move

- FSUIPC Axis assignment shows good In/Out Data for ALL axes

- FSUIPC calibration shows no data for one control surface

- FSUIPC Console log shows no data for one control surface

- Restarting FSX always resolves the problem

- No apparent change (I used Context to compare Before/After) to FSUIPC.ini

What do I do to keep my flight controls working normally through an entire flight?

[Pete Dowson]

Movement of joystick moves VC stick & cables for ailerons and rudder and VC throttle lever as appropriate. Ailerons on wing DO MOVE and aircraft while in flight does not respond to VC stick movement in aileron axis.

If the ailerons are visually changing by use of your controls then that's all any input can do. It means the value iss being correctly passed to FS. Why the aircraft flight path isn't affected by it is another matter and something I don't understand. Are you sure the A/P is not enabled and keeping the wings level? Or else maybe your aileron trim is completely out of whack?

FSUIPC Axis Assignment (AA) Rescan shows Joy #2 Axis X assigned to Aileron Set “Send to FS as normal axis.” AA In/Out values show linear response to joystick movement in AA - 16384 to +16383 with 0 as the center in AA. X axis delta set at 254.

Do you mean "axis ailerons set" or "ailerons set"? If you want to use the normal FSX assignment it should be the former.

Why are you assigning in FSUIPC in any case? If you want to use the normal FS controls on the same axes for all aircraft you might as well assign everything in FSX. You can still calibrate in FSUIPC.

Aha:

[Axes]

0=0X,256,F,65695,0,0,0

1=0Y,256,F,65762,0,0,0

You've used the old "Ailerons Set" control on the X axis yet the newer and standard FSX "axis elevator set" control for the Y axis. You should be consistent, and for most FSX aircraft you'd need to use the newer controls, the same ones FSX itself uses: Axis_ailerons_set, etc The others are usually supported still by FS, but not all aircraft will respond to them.

Regards

Pete

[tacomasailor]

tacomasailor, on Yesterday, 11:26 PM, said:

Movement of joystick moves VC stick & cables for ailerons and rudder and VC throttle lever as appropriate. Ailerons on wing DO MOVE and aircraft while in flight does not respond to VC stick movement in aileron axis.

If the ailerons are visually changing by use of your controls then that's all any input can do. It means the value iss being correctly passed to FS. Why the aircraft flight path isn't affected by it is another matter and something I don't understand. Are you sure the A/P is not enabled and keeping the wings level? Or else maybe your aileron trim is completely out of whack?

Sorry about the confusion the statement should have said "Ailerons on wing DO NOT MOVE and aircraft while in flight does not respond to VC stick movement in aileron axis.

I don't know why the Axis Assignment was "Aileron Set" - I thought I always used " Axis Aileron Set" as you suggest. I've changed to "Axis Aileron Set" and have flown for a while with no problems.

I'm hoping that the problems were caused by my inadvertent use of "Aileron Set" - If I have problems in the future - the first thing I will check, for any axis, is the "XXX Set" - vs "Axis XXX Set"

Your response of:

If you want to use the normal FS controls on the same axes for all aircraft you might as well assign everything in FSX. You can still calibrate in FSUIPC.

has apparently clarified my confusion on this matter. I mistakenly thought Joystick Calibration only worked if the axis was assigned in FSUIPC.

The FSUIPC user Guide says "You have to set an axis in one of the Joystick pages first." in the first part of the joystick calibration section which I took to mean the FSUIPC Axis Assignment was necessary to gain Joystick Calibration.

I know the earlier statement " So I added facilities for final ―tuning of joystick controls, once they‘ve been through FS‘s assignments and main calibration. " can be interpreted to mean the axis can be assigned in FSX and FSUIPC calibration will also be effective - but the latter statement confused me.

Thanks for the quick response and I'm really hoping the Axis XXX Set clarification will solve all my problems.

[Pete Dowson]

Sorry about the confusion the statement should have said "Ailerons on wing DO NOT MOVE and aircraft while in flight does not respond to VC stick movement in aileron axis.

Ah, that makes rather more sense! ;-)

Your response of: has apparently clarified my confusion on this matter. I mistakenly thought Joystick Calibration only worked if the axis was assigned in FSUIPC.

No, no! The axis assignment facilities were added MUCH later, mainly to satisfy the demand to be able to assign different devices for different aircraft, or multiple devices for dual controls etc. After I'd added the facilities I realised there was scope there for adding extra "axes" not supported by FS in themselves, like the reversers. But they are an extra and separate option.

The FSUIPC user Guide says "You have to set an axis in one of the Joystick pages first." in the first part of the joystick calibration section which I took to mean the FSUIPC Axis Assignment was necessary to gain Joystick Calibration.

Well, quoting it out of context like that is bound to be ambiguous and confusing. But you need to read things in the ontext in which they occur. The paragraph it is part of actually says:

Selecting the “Joystick Calibration” tab in the FSUIPC4 options you will see something similar to this:

[PICTURE OF CALIBRATION TAB]

FSUIPC4 does not interfere with any joystick axis at all by default. You have to set an axis in one of the Joystick pages first. In this picture only the Throttle is shown not selected, so three of the four axes included on this page will be handled by FSUIPC4.

which (I though obviously?) simply tells you that if you don't set or select an axis here, in one of the joystick pages, then FSUIPC does nothing to it. It is simply telling you that you have to SET it to CALIBRATE it. See the "SET" button? I really cannot see how you can relate any of this to ASSIGNING an axis, which is a completely separate subject and a completely separate chapter, and actually uses completely different words -- not "setting" but "assigning". Assigning is a very specific action and has a specific meaning. But "set" or "setting" is a rather general English word which can be applied to something as simple as pressing a button, as here, one labelled, oddly "Set".

Regards

Pete

[tacomasailor]

In your post #2 you explained the difference between Axis Ailerons Set and Ailerons Set and that made sense to me.

Today; I had been flying for five minutes - ( took off from KHNL and was headed SE with some strong trade winds blowing and the ailerons had worked well during the walk around and during the X-wind takeoff) and very suddenly the aileron flight surfaces stopped moving. The yoke in the VC was moving but the actual ailerons did not move.

In FSUIPC I found the axis assignment was again set to Ailerons Set NOT Axis Ailerons Set - I switched the axis back to Axis Ailerons Set and again everything was working perfectly and I had an un-eventful flight.

Do you have any idea what is causing the Axis Assignment to change during flight? I had made no changes in FSUIPC during the last several hours of flight.

How do I prevent the axis assignment from changing?

[Pete Dowson]

Do you have any idea what is causing the Axis Assignment to change during flight? I had made no changes in FSUIPC during the last several hours of flight.

No, it cannot possibly change by itself. I believe you must not have confirmed the change by pressing OK. If you just ESCape from the dialogues everything reverts to its state as it was before you entered the options.

Regards

Pete

[tacomasailor]

I believe you must not have confirmed the change by pressing OK. If you just ESCape from the dialogues everything reverts to its state as it was before you entered the options.

The change of axis assignment occurs before I ever enter Addons/FSUIPC - What "confirm the change" are you thinking about?

Perhaps I am not explaining myself clearly

1 - I walk around the aircraft and verify that all flight controls, as viewed from the exterior of the aircraft, are working properly

2 - I takeoff and fly the aircraft for many minutes and all flight controls work properly

3 - I DO NOT enter ADDONS/FSUIPC

4 - SUDDENLY, while flying, the ailerons fail to move on the flight surface

5 - I verify the yoke or stick in the cockpit does move in the aileron axis

6 - I enter ADDONS/FSUIPC and do a Axis Assignment/Rescan for the X axis and see that the axis is assigned to Aileron Set

7 - I open FSUIPC4.ini and verify that axis X is set to AXIS_AILERONS_SET - 65763

Where, during the process above, could I have changed the axis assignment prior to the failure of the aileron surface response to yoke/stick movement?

I don't mean to be contentious; but I am confused as to why you think this is operator error.

[Ian P]

I'm wondering if it might be a hardware problem?

Pete - if a device momentarily lost connection, the same as my old joystick used to do as the USB connection failed, could that be detected as a new device each time?

Ian P.

[Pete Dowson]

The change of axis assignment occurs before I ever enter Addons/FSUIPC - What "confirm the change" are you thinking about?

That when you thought you changed the assignment, you didn't in fact do so because it was not confirmed.

I don't mean to be contentious; but I am confused as to why you think this is operator error.

Because there is absolutely no way that FSUIPC will suddenly decide to remove one assignment and substitute another -- not even a random one, but one still associated with the ailerons and, very coincidentally, the one you had assigned before! There are no mechanisms ANYWHERE in FSUIPC for doing such things except on a change of aircraft (when you have aircraft or profile specific assignments), or via the options dialogues.

Regards

Pete